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I'd like to take the wizarding hat in my ogres (because gut magic does nothing for me, or my ogres ), but since I don't want it on my tyrant, and since I can't take two tyrants, it would need to go on the SM. So ...

1) Does the wizarding hat in fact mean that the SM stops being a level 4 with gut magic, and becomes a level 2 with random magic (+ stupidity)? Ala book of secrets, the closest FAQ I could find?
2) Does a SM with the wizarding hat still use the butcher miscast table, despite no longer using gut magic?
2.5) Would a tyrant with the wizarding hat use the butcher miscast table?

Thanks for your thoughts. I have a feeling this has been discussed on the Stronghold at least once, so Grey feel free to point me over there

- Salvage

1) counterpoint: a tomb kings lord-level who takes the wizarding hat can still use incantations AFAIK.
2) I think you'd use the normal table since you're using a normal lore; the gut magic table seems to reflect the different magical physics of gastromancy.
2.5) definitely not IMO, as the tyrant has no access to the gut magic table normally.

Just my $.02, not really much in the way of actual rule support but more just my instinctive reaction.

1) He becomes a level 2, as it states he is a level 2. He also uses random magic
2) Butcher miscast, as he is still a SM
2.5) No, he would use the normal miscast table as he has no rule permitting him to use any other one.

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) He becomes a level 2, as it states he is a level 2. He also uses random magic
2) Butcher miscast, as he is still a SM
2.5) No, he would use the normal miscast table as he has no rule permitting him to use any other one.

Cheers Nos, I thought as much.

Malleus wrote:1) counterpoint: a tomb kings lord-level who takes the wizarding hat can still use incantations AFAIK.

There are only a few reasons why I have just started a tomb kings army. This is one of them

- Salvage

Boss Salvage wrote:
There are only a few reasons why I have just started a tomb kings army. This is one of them

Exciting! I'm working on a list myself. Got some trial models on the painting table...

Cool RZ, wouldn't mind comparing notes sometime. First batch of the legion is in the mail for me, so you're a step ahead

- Salvage

Given my glacial painting pace, I'm not far ahead...

Looking forward to some TK nonsense! I find it odd that a SM would use the butcher miscast table instead of the normal one, if miscasting on a normal lore, but I guess it would depend on the wording.

As a note, unless it's in a FAQ, I would imagine they use the normal Wizard Miscasting Table, as that was the thing done with Azhag when he used his Crown of Sorcery.

Minsc wrote:As a note, unless it's in a FAQ, I would imagine they use the normal Wizard Miscasting Table, as that was the thing done with Azhag when he used his Crown of Sorcery.

This is my reasoning as well. Different schools of magic, different winds of magic.

Looking at the FAQ's to Ogres, the main Rulebook, and Orcs & Goblins, I saw nothing in them in relation to the Wizarding Hat (besides the bit on a minor word-change in the Wizarding Hat's effect in the BRB's FAQ). However, the Orc one for Azhag remains:

"Q. Azhag, with his Crown of Sorcery, chooses his spells from the Lore of Death. Does he roll on the Waaagh! Miscast table or in the table included in the Warhammer rulebook? (p34)
A. He uses the Miscast table in the Warhammer rulebook. "

I'd still ask for your opponent's permission / a staff member's opinion on the matter (be sure to bring up the Azhag bit as an example of it in another book), but it could readily be argued a Wizarding Hat character uses the standard Miscast table.

I'm going to assume that Nosferatu's looking at a key sentence or two that seals the deal, such as, under Gut Magic, "Butchers and Slaughtermasters use the Gut Magic miscast table", instead of "If a character miscasts a spell from Gut Magic, he rolls on the Gut Magic miscast table".

Language may be a constant and fluid thing, but RaW will be decided by the dusty old laws of Grammar. And in that, we should look to Nosferatu.

And in that, I have managed to misplace (read: tidied away someplace safe) my OK book.

Sigh at myself!

If someone WITH the army book can check the miscast table? From memory it specified the character.

Annoyingly was runnign a tourney today with a single OK player. If it had crossed my frazzled mind I would have grabbed it to check....

I think Minsc's reasoning is right on. However, I also agree that is the miscast table has wording like "Slaughtermasters use this table" without mentioning the gut-magic lore, it could overrule... although the Azhag FAQ answer makes the most sense.

nosferatu1001 wrote:And in that, I have managed to misplace (read: tidied away someplace safe) my OK book.

Sigh at myself!

If someone WITH the army book can check the miscast table? From memory it specified the character.

Annoyingly was runnign a tourney today with a single OK player. If it had crossed my frazzled mind I would have grabbed it to check....

Annnnd while my OK book is with my OK army six feet away in the closet, I clearly haven't been bothered enough to fish it out and check who has to use the gut miscast table and when

[As an aside, wow do I have no desire to run ogres again until they get some more and/or decent units. Running forward, casting a couple iffy spells, luxuriating in the scraplauncher phase and then perhaps fighting, whilst the other guy steadfasts and my ogres slowly disintegrate? I've come to terms with needing more from my warhammer generalship.]

- Salvage

It's more that you can now stack the spells (check your latest FAQs) so you can get T6 ogres without much issue.

I've in fact gotten my ogres up to T10 But after playing my ogres in 'Ard Boys and the Crossroads GT, I'm disgusted by going deathstar and extremely underwhelmed by the single dimension of the army. I still <3 my big fatties, I just don't think they're worth putting the time and effort into revamping until the new book hits (which is sounding like 2012? Balls to that!)

- Salvage

O mercy, do not use the Wizarding hat on your SM


learn how to use Gutmagic properly and it will do better then any random lore you will get off of the Wizarding hat.


you also lose your +4 to Cast and Dispell in exchange for a +2.

you also can't take any other magic items.


the Wizarding Hat is waaaayyy overpriced. if it was 50 points i could see putting it on a Butcher or a Bruiser.