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So I was getting a little bored of painting space marines, and taking stock of what models I have I realized I had loads of various genestealers lying about(BfM, space hulk etc.). Now that the broodlord is no longer an HQ choice it's no longer a legal army by itself, but I was thinking I could add a few models and make a genestealer kind of slinky, xenomorph sneaky terror "themed" list using a few other choices. After glancing through the codex, my rough idea of a list is this as follows. Note that everything in the list can either deep strike, infiltrate, or outflank, and I was considering converting a tyrant(possibly the old smaller one) into a "Alien queen-esque" model, of course with wings.
This is mainly a for fun list for pick up, scenario/campaign, and basement type games, not really super competitive(though obviously I'd like to win), and the one real requirement is that nothing should be terribly hurt by lack of synapse, which I won't have a lot of. The competitive aspect is what I need help with, what would work, what gives synergy and support to swarms of 'stealers backed up by no other troops? Whatever else I change I want to keep the 'stealers as the core of the list.
Note that while I've played for awhile, both my other armies are Space Marines, and I'm a total tyranoob, I haven't ever touched tyranids except for the odd all genestealer killteam(mwahahaha), so any and all input is appreciated.

With that said, this is my initial list candidate:

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander, Psychic Scream and The horror - 255 (I figured those two powers would best take advantage of the potential -2LD bubble introduced by the broodlords, better ideas? Any upgrades I should consider given he's already a deep striking, flying MC?)

5x Ymgarl Genestealers - 115 (too cool to pass up in a stealer theme list)
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160

10x Genestealer w/adrenal glands, Broodlord w/adrenal glands - 235 (do I really need the adrenal glands? I know they look like they'd be really nice, especially on the brood lords. I was also thinking acid blood could be really cool, though obviously not competitive would add flavor to the list in genera IMO, and reinforce the "Aliens" xenomorph nods, without adrenal glands I could cram in a few more 'stealers but furious charge looks so very nice on S4 I6 models)
10x Genestealer w/adrenal glands, Broodlord w/adrenal glands - 235
10x Genestealer - 140

Carnifex, Mycetic Spore - 200 (would a Mawlock be more scary for similar points?)

Obviously light on the AT, notably transport of the transport cracking variety. Not sure how that fits in other than choices that are less than fluffy for the style of list. Maybe smaller suicide groups of 5 genestealers with adrenals to shred rhinos in preperation for a charge from a group w/broodlord?
Also the carnifex is a little silly, but the only heavy choice I think could replace it well in this theme list is the mawlock, which model I hate and would have to heavily convert to my likings.

You only need adrenals on stealers if you are planning on using them to tear up transports. The extra Init is less of a bonus as you already go before most units. As you are short on AV otherwise then the adrenals look worth it.

I personally think 10 stealers is a bit light - a couple lost ot shooting and the unit looses a lot of bite - maybe go 12-14 in a brood.

If you're looking at DS then trygon's are the way to go - 210 points gives you a trygon with adrenals and even better 250 for the prime. Two of those is nearly 500 points but worth it. Tyrant with wings and HC, 42 stealers and 2 trygons - not much for 1500 but a scary sight. If you have the odd 50-17 points then maybe 10 gargoyles as late game objecitve contesters.

How one of my friend runs stealer shock, is 2 Tervigons, 3x2 Hive Guard, and the rest (2 big squads, 17 i think and one small squad) of Toxin Sac Genestealers....

They do so much more damage with toxin sacs...

I second toxin sacs on the stealers.

I have a tyraniid army to with lots of genestealers.
It's the best to take big units of genestealers and maybe a lictor will do wel for a +1 for reserves.

Why would toxin sacks help, aren't they already S4 and thus wound a marine on a 4+ anyways? Wait a second...Stealers are S4 so with poison they get rerolls to wound vs anything T4 or less, so that's fairly awesome. I detest the aesthetic of the toxin sack upgrade though, so I'd have to convert up something that didn't look just plain silly(translucent drips of acid dripping from their claws work?).

I didn't want to run hive guard since they have no option to deep strike, infiltrate, or outflank and require synapse to do what I want them to. The models themselves don't look very terrifying or stealthy either so I'd have to convert them up(not a problem).
As the list is short on AT anyways, dropping Zoats for a lictor is silly(though the lictor fits the theme...but I get +1 to reserves from hive commander anyways), and as it is a stealer list the Ymgarls are almost requisite, in fact they should be a max sized unit!
Not sure what to do about anti transport still, but the zoats can do a job of it(inefficient though!) and stealers can destroy them in CC via bulk of attacks and rends.

I'm not sure on the trygon, it doesn't look like it would bring much to my list aside from a super heavy bolter and a bit of an MC hammer. In addition the basic trygon is subject to instinctive behavior(not a big deal I guess since it would be deep striking close to stuff). I'm guessing you'd use it for disruption? That is dropping it in the middle of a parking lot and having it let loose on the transports and their delicious delicious contents... Still, for that a mawlock looks like it would be a more effective disruption MC for less points. I'm just not sure I wouldn't be better off just using more 'stealers(see below).
Tervigons sound a little silly for a stealer based list IMO, though they would for sure increase the durability of the units if you slogged them acrost the board, plus provide them with meatshield/coversaves. Hmm...

List potentiate revision 2, moar swarmey, less MC hammery, and for sure more in following with the theme:

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander, The Horror and Psychic Scream - 255

5x Ymgarl Genestealers - 115
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160

15x Genestealers with Toxin sacks, Broodlord with Toxin sacks - 320 (a bit points heavy IMO, that hurts, but I guess this would be the hammer unit)
15x Genestealers, Broodlord with Toxin sacks - 275
15x Genestealers - 210

1495

Still relying on Zoats for heavy armor and rending to take out transports, but as before everything can deep strike, infiltrate, or outflank.

Xeonicfront wrote:The competitive aspect is what I need help with, what would work, what gives synergy and support to swarms of 'stealers backed up by no other troops? Whatever else I change I want to keep the 'stealers as the core of the list.
Note that while I've played for awhile, both my other armies are Space Marines, and I'm a total tyranoob, I haven't ever touched tyranids except for the odd all genestealer killteam(mwahahaha), so any and all input is appreciated.

Ok I will temper my advice with these points in mind.

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander, Psychic Scream and The horror - 255 (I figured those two powers would best take advantage of the potential -2LD bubble introduced by the broodlords, better ideas? Any upgrades I should consider given he's already a deep striking, flying MC?)

Neither power benefits from Aura of Despair. Aura starts on your assault phase (so after your shooting phase when either Horror or Scream is used) and lasts until the end of your opponents turn (so before you get to use the powers in the following game turn).

Paroxysm is too good to pass up. Psychic Scream is ok but Leech Essence is probably the better 2nd choice (getting your tyrant a wound can be useful).

I'd consider at least one set of brainleech worms. Having some shooting on the turn you drop can be very useful and the 18" range gives you some leeway.

5x Ymgarl Genestealers - 115 (too cool to pass up in a stealer theme list)
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160

For your theme these are great choices. I have had better luck with 7-8 Ymgarls but 5 works ok as well.

10x Genestealer w/adrenal glands, Broodlord w/adrenal glands - 235 (do I really need the adrenal glands? I know they look like they'd be really nice, especially on the brood lords. I was also thinking acid blood could be really cool, though obviously not competitive would add flavor to the list in genera IMO, and reinforce the "Aliens" xenomorph nods, without adrenal glands I could cram in a few more 'stealers but furious charge looks so very nice on S4 I6 models)
10x Genestealer w/adrenal glands, Broodlord w/adrenal glands - 235

In general adrenal glands is only useful for increased shaking and stunning vehicles (and for S6 for broodlords), otherwise they aren't all that usefull on stealers since they lack offensive grenades, are already I6, and S5 doesn't help them kill troops as much as rerolling wounds. Usually toxin sacs are the preferred option though since rerolling wounds against T4 or less means more rends.

But when your army lacks shooting like yours you may find you need even that sliver of a boost against tanks. I'd test this out yourself and see what you think.

Also note that most broodlords have sycthing talons already modeled and its an ok upgrade to take (cheap, helps against tanks)

10x Genestealer - 140

Nothing wrong here although personally I like toxin sac stealers when 10 or less and plain stealers when using larger broods of 15+ (I don't use anything in between that personally and I only use large broods when I have a tervigon in play).

Carnifex, Mycetic Spore - 200 (would a Mawlock be more scary for similar points?)

Mawlocs are not really scary. They are more of a distraction and although they have some uses (mostly moving units around abit and contesting) they rarely do what you want them to do (2/3 chance of scatter is just too random). Also since you have hive commander their ability to come up turn 2 reliably is of little use. Much prefer Trygon or pod carnifex.

Carnifex in pod should have some shooting imo. Dual brainleech, while more expensive can be quite useful for light tank supression and putting pressure on small units (-1 on ld check is handy). It is a bit of an issue if he goes IB on ya but you have a good chunk of synapse so it should rarely be an issue.

Tyrgon (or even a prime) is an option also. They work better when you have more of them on the table though.

Obviously light on the AT, notably transport of the transport cracking variety. Not sure how that fits in other than choices that are less than fluffy for the style of list. Maybe smaller suicide groups of 5 genestealers with adrenals to shred rhinos in preperation for a charge from a group w/broodlord?
Also the carnifex is a little silly, but the only heavy choice I think could replace it well in this theme list is the mawlock, which model I hate and would have to heavily convert to my likings.

I'd consider adding tl-deathspitters on all 3 pods and as much brainleech worms as you can on your MCs rather then points on adrenal glands on stealers. You want stealers hitting tanks as a last result and preferrably ones that are immobilized or were stunned in the previous turn -- S5/S6 shooting will help with this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok saw that you replied before mine.

Xeonicfront wrote:Why would toxin sacks help, aren't they already S4 and thus wound a marine on a 4+ anyways? Wait a second...Stealers are S4 so with poison they get rerolls to wound vs anything T4 or less, so that's fairly awesome. I detest the aesthetic of the toxin sack upgrade though, so I'd have to convert up something that didn't look just plain silly(translucent drips of acid dripping from their claws work?).

There's some heads on the stealer sprues that can work. Frankly I almost never see most biomorphs modeled and the codex no longer requires it. I use painting myself if its not a biomorph I can easily magentize. For stealers I use different colored tounges. Never had anyone voice an issue with that and I've almost never seen the smaller biomorphs that get added to every model in a unit get modeled.

Not sure what to do about anti transport still, but the zoats can do a job of it(inefficient though!) and stealers can destroy them in CC via bulk of attacks and rends.

As stated in my post above, consider adding more S5 and S6 shooting via your mycetic spores and any MCs you end up running. Any little bit helps.

I'm not sure on the trygon, it doesn't look like it would bring much to my list aside from a super heavy bolter and a bit of an MC hammer. In addition the basic trygon is subject to instinctive behavior(not a big deal I guess since it would be deep striking close to stuff). I'm guessing you'd use it for disruption? That is dropping it in the middle of a parking lot and having it let loose on the transports and their delicious delicious contents... Still, for that a mawlock looks like it would be a more effective disruption MC for less points. I'm just not sure I wouldn't be better off just using more 'stealers(see below).

Trygons are a bit better as far as direct disruption because they can do actual damage via 6-7 reroll to hit attacks that are S6 (and prerably S7) with 2d6 pen. One trygon is usually just bait though in my experience.

Tervigons sound a little silly for a stealer based list IMO, though they would for sure increase the durability of the units if you slogged them acrost the board, plus provide them with meatshield/coversaves. Hmm...

Tervigons are awesome with stealers but its a different list. You can do the reserve game but don't have to. Bigger stealer squads are preferable. You also have some scoring ability without relying on stealers (freeing them up to be played aggresively). Don't forget a Tervigon made a troop choice can outflank via Hive commander...

i think Winterman has really given you everything you need.... But on your toxin sac queston!

Poisoned, and because they are S4, re-rolls against rather a lot of things (there is rather a lot of T4 or lower around), that added to the ability to go and assault a high toughness unit (like a C-tan) and kill it, because your still doing quite a few 4+ wounds. Imagine you charge that T8, I4 C-tan with 10 Toxin Sac genestelers, i believe 3 attacks each, so 15 hits 7.5 wounds so 3/4 fails for C-tan, before he hits, and if lucks on your side, You could easily kill him before he attacks, with 10 Genestealers.....

winterman wrote:

Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander, Psychic Scream and The horror - 255 (I figured those two powers would best take advantage of the potential -2LD bubble introduced by the broodlords, better ideas? Any upgrades I should consider given he's already a deep striking, flying MC?)

Neither power benefits from Aura of Despair. Aura starts on your assault phase (so after your shooting phase when either Horror or Scream is used) and lasts until the end of your opponents turn (so before you get to use the powers in the following game turn).

Paroxysm is too good to pass up. Psychic Scream is ok but Leech Essence is probably the better 2nd choice (getting your tyrant a wound can be useful).

I'd consider at least one set of brainleech worms. Having some shooting on the turn you drop can be very useful and the 18" range gives you some leeway.

I gotcha, didn't notice that bit about aura of despair(merely had time to glance at the codex)so thanks for pointing that out. After a second look, you're right of course, though psychic scream looks so nasty vs low LD armies especially(will try it out, powers are free).
Does this strike you as a more optimal HT loadout?
Hive Tyrant with Wings, Hive Commander, Leech Essence, Paroxysm, Twin-Linked Devourers with brainleech worms, Lash Whip and Bonesword - 270

He's now super expensive of course, but hopefully all the more effective for being so.

winterman wrote:

5x Ymgarl Genestealers - 115 (too cool to pass up in a stealer theme list)
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore - 160

For your theme these are great choices. I have had better luck with 7-8 Ymgarls but 5 works ok as well.

Gotcha. I've also found that khorne berserkers are best price/performance at 7-8 man as well(unrelated, I'm sure). Will make an attempt to get this unit size up, this entry is really cool and flavorful IMO.

10x Genestealer w/adrenal glands, Broodlord w/adrenal glands - 235 (do I really need the adrenal glands? I know they look like they'd be really nice, especially on the brood lords. I was also thinking acid blood could be really cool, though obviously not competitive would add flavor to the list in genera IMO, and reinforce the "Aliens" xenomorph nods, without adrenal glands I could cram in a few more 'stealers but furious charge looks so very nice on S4 I6 models)
10x Genestealer w/adrenal glands, Broodlord w/adrenal glands - 235

In general adrenal glands is only useful for increased shaking and stunning vehicles (and for S6 for broodlords), otherwise they aren't all that usefull on stealers since they lack offensive grenades, are already I6, and S5 doesn't help them kill troops as much as rerolling wounds. Usually toxin sacs are the preferred option though since rerolling wounds against T4 or less means more rends.

But when your army lacks shooting like yours you may find you need even that sliver of a boost against tanks. I'd test this out yourself and see what you think.

Also note that most broodlords have sycthing talons already modeled and its an ok upgrade to take (cheap, helps against tanks)

Ah, okay. I'll limit upgrades on the large units as it boosts costs fast. On small units though it could make up for numbers to a certain extent. Less is often more(I realize this even as a marine player), but I go all googley eyes looking at biomorph options.

Thinking of either adrenals or toxin sacs on the broodlords(adrenals might help more with transports at S6, but toxin sacks hurting up to T5 is also amazing...) only at this point, and going with 2x 15 stealers and a unit of 11(list below).

...
Carnifex in pod should have some shooting imo. Dual brainleech, while more expensive can be quite useful for light tank supression and putting pressure on small units (-1 on ld check is handy). It is a bit of an issue if he goes IB on ya but you have a good chunk of synapse so it should rarely be an issue.

Tyrgon (or even a prime) is an option also. They work better when you have more of them on the table though.

I've basically given up on the carnifex, everyone keeps telling me they're not worth the points anymore. I just looked at the list and the most scary thing that jumped out that I could deep strike seemed to be the carnifex. Will keep the trygons in mind, but it all depends. I can always proxy one later on once I have the core of the list assembled.

I'd consider adding tl-deathspitters on all 3 pods and as much brainleech worms as you can on your MCs rather then points on adrenal glands on stealers. You want stealers hitting tanks as a last result and preferrably ones that are immobilized or were stunned in the previous turn -- S5/S6 shooting will help with this.

Noted. I'd just assumed that the BS2 spods would be a bad choice for shooting, even with a TL weapon, though after doing the math the chance of at least shaking a rhino aren't all that bad. As you say, the list needs all the help it can get for AV, and the spods should at least always be dropping in range of something. I suppose they should be given a shooting upgrade just to make them a little bit of a threat anyhow just on the principle of it.

Trygons are a bit better as far as direct disruption because they can do actual damage via 6-7 reroll to hit attacks that are S6 (and prerably S7) with 2d6 pen. One trygon is usually just bait though in my experience.

Just like one of anything really. This rule holds true no matter which army you play. However, the one trygon would be sharing a target profile and some of the same threat rating of a Hive tyrant, theoretically increasing both of their durability. In my CSM list I often run a DP, rhinos, and oblits, all of which are optimally dealt with by the same weapons making target priority an issue. Anyways, as I said this isn't a super competitive list and any MC will be a centerpiece model more than anything else.

Tervigons are awesome with stealers but its a different list. You can do the reserve game but don't have to. Bigger stealer squads are preferable. You also have some scoring ability without relying on stealers (freeing them up to be played aggresively). Don't forget a Tervigon made a troop choice can outflank via Hive commander...

Interesting. Would a single tervigon(option to outflank or hold a home objective!) for objective sitting be a good investment in this style list? I do have some old basic Termagaunts from the BfM box(I think 10 or so?).

List potentiate #3

1x Hive Tyrant with Wings, Hive Commander, Leech Essence, Paroxysm, Twin-Linked Devourers with brainleech worms, Lash Whip and Bonesword - 270

8x Ymgarl Genestealers - 184
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore with TL Deathspitter - 170
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore with TL Deathspitter - 170

15x Genestealers, Broodlord with Scything talons and Adrenals(or toxin, still unsure, really boils down to if I want AV or to slaughter troops easier) - 277
15x Genestealers, Broodlord with Adrenals(or toxin) - 275
11x Genestealers - 154

1500. At this point I've pared down the troops upgrades to a minimum, whilst boosting numbers for all 'stealer units. AV is still light, but slightly better, and even more models on the table. Also if it wasn't clear, I meant 15 genestealers plus a broodlord.

I would even out the numbers on those stealer lists and give both broodlords rending rather than scything talons. Go 14+BL, 14+BL, 15.

I agree that without more shooty AV you will be having to assault tin cans with your stealers and so rending/adrenal does seem to be a must.

I've basically given up on the carnifex, everyone keeps telling me they're not worth the points anymore. I just looked at the list and the most scary thing that jumped out that I could deep strike seemed to be the carnifex.

Don't believe the haters. Carnifexes might be a wee bit overcosted now and they were definitely a fair bit undercosted before -- but people are missing some key points while staring at the paper. Its not real relevant to your list style (or point value for that matter) but the fact that carnifexes can be taken as units is very useful and tactically abusable. Also most people like to compare Trygons with carnifexes but blow over the fact that carnifexes can actually be hidden or given cover saves on most tables -- much much harder to do with a trygon. Gets even easier if you have an IC to join them. Just something to keep in mind though for higher points and as your collection grows, not really relevant to your list.

I will say at 1500 points a carnifex in a pod (or two) could get a lot more milage then you think. I tend to prefer trygons for a similar role but portable cover, 12 S6 shots out to 18" (as well as the pods 6 S6 and other shots) and S9 attacks with 2d6 pen are definite plusses in the carnifexes favor. If you like the old buggers and have the model try em out, otherwise its not a big deal.

Interesting. Would a single tervigon(option to outflank or hold a home objective!) for objective sitting be a good investment in this style list?

I usually run one tervigon in my lists and I like to run stealers since I have 50 of em nicely painted. Most folks will tell you two tervigons are a must and they are probably right, but I have gotten good use out of the single tervigon. I run a large squad of stealers that will typically infiltrate into cover and within the effective range of catalyst. Then a couple of smaller stealer squads to outflank (against a more shooty army) or sit back and counter charge (if facing a more aggressive list).

I haven't used hive commander in a while but if I was I doubt I would outflank the tervigon all that often (mostly a nice option if faced with the uber shooty list on planet bowling ball and going second.) If I had two tervigons I would outflank one quite a bit more since the other can still hold down the fort.

1500. At this point I've pared down the troops upgrades to a minimum, whilst boosting numbers for all 'stealer units. AV is still light, but slightly better, and even more models on the table. Also if it wasn't clear, I meant 15 genestealers plus a broodlord.

I'd personally run smaller broods with this list. Maybe five 8 strong broods or four 10 strong (no lords to save points). Little reason to run the bigger broods at 1500 with no tervigon support in my opinion.

I would even out the numbers on those stealer lists and give both broodlords rending rather than scything talons.

Broodlords already have rending claws. And I am guessing the smaller brood is for grabbing an objective while the other two do the heavy lifting.

The scything talons look from the unit entry like they are an upgrade, not a swap(had 2pts to fill and the metal broodlord comes with them) , they come with rending claws standard. I could swap it around to be 13+BL, 13+BL and 15 standard 'stealers, but nothing else without swapping stuff around/dropping upgrades. I could run the third unit understrength and with adrenals for vehicles, or I could drop something, but the zoanthropes are needed to fulfill AV duties, the HT is my requisite HQ who also shall fulfill some of my AT duties, and the Ymgarls are non negotiable except from unit size(it's a theme list!).

At this point I'm thinking that more bodies=more potential rends and the only place I really need upgrades is on the broodlords who will be more or less protected hiding in a mass of ablative wounds(hidden powerfist effect). Adrenals or toxin are both viable here, toxin giving them rerolls vs T5 or less and 4+ to T6 and beyond, and adrenals making them S6 on the charge, allowing them to wound most infantry on a 2+ and pen most vehicles pretty easily with rending. Since I'm low on AV I'm seriously considering just running the broodlords as having adrenals to help asplode vehicles with less difficulty.

I'm really having trouble wrapping my noggin around this list and how it will function on the table, but it's looking rather fun to play with and against with stuff infiltrating, outflanking, deep striking, popping out of area terrain, and generally being scary. The only thing I'm worried is that people will just hide in their transports from it and I'll be unable to reliably remove them outside of assault. 1500 seems a tight point for Tyranids especially trying to fit in 3x sizeable units of 'stealers and support.

EDIT: Ninja'ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

winterman wrote:Don't believe the haters. Carnifexes might be a wee bit overcosted now and they were definitely a fair bit undercosted before -- but people are missing some key points while staring at the paper. Its not real relevant to your list style (or point value for that matter) but the fact that carnifexes can be taken as units is very useful and tactically abusable. Also most people like to compare Trygons with carnifexes but blow over the fact that carnifexes can actually be hidden or given cover saves on most tables -- much much harder to do with a trygon. Gets even easier if you have an IC to join them. Just something to keep in mind though for higher points and as your collection grows, not really relevant to your list.

I will say at 1500 points a carnifex in a pod (or two) could get a lot more milage then you think. I tend to prefer trygons for a similar role but portable cover, 12 S6 shots out to 18" (as well as the pods 6 S6 and other shots) and S9 attacks with 2d6 pen are definite plusses in the carnifexes favor. If you like the old buggers and have the model try em out, otherwise its not a big deal.

I don't have any carnifexes but could pick up a couple used ones cheap. Since I'd be stripping them down and repainting them weapon and biomorph swaps is easy. I know as a space marine player they're one of the MCs I truely fear hitting my lines and the ability to deep strike such a big beastie is really terrifying.

I usually run one tervigon in my lists and I like to run stealers since I have 50 of em nicely painted. Most folks will tell you two tervigons are a must and they are probably right, but I have gotten good use out of the single tervigon. I run a large squad of stealers that will typically infiltrate into cover and within the effective range of catalyst. Then a couple of smaller stealer squads to outflank (against a more shooty army) or sit back and counter charge (if facing a more aggressive list).

I haven't used hive commander in a while but if I was I doubt I would outflank the tervigon all that often (mostly a nice option if faced with the uber shooty list on planet bowling ball and going second.) If I had two tervigons I would outflank one quite a bit more since the other can still hold down the fort.

Right, you want to maximize the time on the table to crank out as much use of it as you can correct? Looks like a fantastic support MC though and I'm definitely looking at converting one up at this point sometime down the road, maybe for a 1750 list.

I'd personally run smaller broods with this list. Maybe five 8 strong broods or four 10 strong (no lords to save points). Little reason to run the bigger broods at 1500 with no tervigon support in my opinion.

What's the reasoning behind this, standard MSU theory? I agree 'stealers are awesome mind you(have only fielded them in killteam though) but I want to field at least one broodlord because it's such a fantastic model(the space hulk one I mean).

I would even out the numbers on those stealer lists and give both broodlords rending rather than scything talons.

Broodlords already have rending claws. And I am guessing the smaller brood is for grabbing an objective while the other two do the heavy lifting.

That was what I was thinking, I could either use it to destroy a vehicle and assault the juicy meaty bits with a broodlord group, or leave them holding an objective. Of course I could just use a small unit of termagaunts to hold a backfield objective if that's all I wanted to do...

I might have messed up but you might want to look at your math on those stealers.

Big units of stealers, especially when given FnP, will run over anything. That is a tactic you might want to consider.

Having Hive Commander is good because you have a lot of things in reserve that will benefit from it regardless of whether you outflank or infiltrate your big units of stealers. Also making sure your units come in early is really important. It sucks when your reserves come in one at a time just to get picked off.

I think infiltrating the big units in is good to do too because it can intimidate an opponent and gives you the chance to put them right where you need them at the start, rather than having to wait for them to come from the sides.

Also, the threat of ymgarl genestealers is underrated. You can really mess with the way a person deploys if they know you are using ymgarl genestealers and if they know or think they know you are going to outflank with other stealers. And they are champs at tearing up vehicles and hard to reach units. Totally crucial imo.

Well there are a couple problems with my costing. I made up that list from my notes rather than from a codex sitting in front of me and I miscosted some stuff and totally got the wording wrong for upgrades, which are all or nothing(looking at the codex right now, heh). I was obviously thinking of the broodlord as an upgrade character with an expanded set up upgrades(marine player remember), and I think I pulled the costing from my notes on the warriors entry.
Big fail on my part.

Going with the FNP+semi-deathstar concept and with a codex in front of me, list potentiate #4:

Hive Tyrant with Wings, Hive Commander, Psychic Scream, Paroxysm, Twin-Linked Devourers with brainleech worms, Lash Whip and Bonesword - 270

8x Ymgarl Genestealers - 184
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore with TL Deathspitter - 170
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore with TL Deathspitter - 170

14x Genestealers, Broodlord - 256
15x Genestealers - 210
10x Termagaunts - 50
Tervigon, Toxin Sacks, Catalyst - 185

1495 This list would play very differently from my other list and the tervigon doesn't fit well with the theme (though with hive commander I could outflank the tervigon!), but FNP makes 15 strong units of genestealers very scary. I could always just let the unit of termagaunts sit in cover by my home objective and outflank the Tervigon or just charge it up the board to support stealers with FNP and reinforcements. Still, it's basically a single MC on the board... A scoring MC though, I believe.

List potentiate #3(with corrected costing):

1x Hive Tyrant with Wings, Hive Commander, Leech Essence, Paroxysm, Twin-Linked Devourers with brainleech worms, Lash Whip and Bonesword - 270

8x Ymgarl Genestealers - 184
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore with TL Deathspitter - 170
2x Zoanthrope, Mycetic Spore with TL Deathspitter - 170

14x Genestealers, Broodlord - 256
14x Genestealers, Broodlord - 256
13x Genestealers - 182 (could run this as 15 and the other two as 13+BL alternately)

1488(or just barely not enough points for another 'stealer) Again, everything can outflank or deepstrike, and as I regularly play on a 4x4 table outflanking is potentially quite lethal. This list appeals to me because I'd need only procure a hive tyrant(the FW one looks fantastic BTW, or I could convert up a metal one to look more slinky sneaky and dangerous), the zoats(and convert up some tennis ball pods), and a couple boxes of 'stealers, the most economical option by far. I also want this list to be fairly competitive as I will probably be playing it against my own marines(mech infantry) and chaos marine armies(berserkers vs genestealers grudge match!) in the hands of friends.

If points are tight I would drop the deathspitters on the spores. That's 20 points and they only have BS2 and so are only hitting on 5s.

Both lists look good but I think the tervigon one is a bit better as an all comers league/tournament list. Relying solely on stealers for scoring can be tough (I know from experience prior to the current dex).

You should build and purchase to be able to field both in my opinion, that way you can make the jump to 1750 that much easier and form your own opinion on the table.

If points are tight I would drop the deathspitters on the spores. That's 20 points and they only have BS2 and so are only hitting on 5s.

While it might be the first thing I'd drop as well, those spitters have uses despite BS2. TL BS2 still hits better then BS3 (5/9 rather then 1/2). If you do the math those pods in range of AR10 have about an 82% chance of at least shaking a tank. Without the spitter it drops to 67% and you lose the extra 12" range to boot. One of the hidden gems of the zoey/pod combo (or carni/pod combo) is the ability to shutdown two tank when they arrive rather then just one. Doesn't always happen of course but the good chance that it does is nice to have.

Ability to purchase both ultimately was my goal anyways. I did the maths on the spods and for BS2 they're remarkably passable with the TL deathspitters for at least shaking transports. This is ultimately all I expect them to ever do but this list needs all the AV help it can get and it's worth dropping one stealer-ish for more potential AV fire.

I'm pretty happy with the two lists at the moment, at least for fun basement games and the odd pickup game(though any further input of course would be appreciated), and was thinking of doing a kind of a space hulk theme for the basings. Doubly suitable since many of the minis would be making occasional trips back to a space hulk board...