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Chaos & nid player posting,
I would ask of dakka to answer some questions regarding dedicated transports (mainly for both armies stated, but also for the rest... "know your foe").

Concerning Regular vehicles, Open-topped ones, Assault vehicles, Drop pods and Spore pods, what is to be done in each situation including these type of add-ons in a unit?

1.- Models embarked, shooting from vehicle's fire points (or OT's) at the same time as the vehicle itself (regular vehicle weaponry, no special-additional weapons/machine spirits/daemon engines/whatever...), must both choose the same target?

2.- Models disembarked, but closer than 2", must as well shoot the same target as its transport?

3.- Models disembarked closer than 2" to the vehicle, are the vehicle and the transported unit positively 2 different targets or can they both be shot at by a single enemy unit?

4.- models farther than 2", totally hidden behind the vehicle (that is, out of LoS)
...a.- get a cover save.
...b.- cannot be targeted if LoS needed.
...c.- can be targeted as normal, because the vehicle is part of that unit.
4.5.- the models did NOT disembark last turn (they did it before), but are within 2" close to their dedicated transport, totally hidden, too
...a.- get a cover save.
...b.- cannot be targeted if LoS needed.
...c.- can be targeted as normal, because the vehicle is part of that unit.

5.- Assault phase, transported unit's charge & transport tank shock(if declared) must be declared Vs. the same unit?

6.- Models disembarked closer than 2", are charged and the transport is, let's say, a spore (with WS and attacks value), is it considered as
...a.- a multiple assault against 2 separte units,
...b.- a single assault against a unit and some sort of IC or
...c.- a regular assault against a single unit
...d.- either of them can be base-contacted and the other remain unengaged (not being able to join combat)
for hits-wound allocation purposes?
6.5.- Models disembarked farther than 2", are charged and their transport is, let's say, a spore (with WS and attacks value), is it considered as
...a.- a multiple assault against 2 separte units,
...b.- a single assault against a unit and some sort of IC or
...c.- a regular assault against a single unit
...d.- either of them can be base-contacted and the other remain unengaged (not being able to join combat)
for hits-wound allocation purposes?

Gosh, my head hurts...

Most of your questions are easily answered reading "Multiple Unit Choices" on page 92, and remembering that a unit and their dedicated transport are NEVER, EVER considered to be part of the same unit.

There are only a few specific rules which create any association at all between them. Only the unit a Dedicated Transport was purchaed for (plus any attached ICs) can be deployed embarked into said transport (p.94). A unit with Scounts or Infiltrate can Outflank in their DT (p.94), and Scout also conveys a Scout move upon it (p76) although they cannot Infiltrate in it (p.75).

ENKHANNA wrote:1.- Models embarked, shooting from vehicle's fire points (or OT's) at the same time as the vehicle itself (regular vehicle weaponry, no special-additional weapons/machine spirits/daemon engines/whatever...), must both choose the same target?

They shouldn't be shooting at the same time as the vehicle, since the vehicle is a separate unit. You shoot with one unit at a time.

There is nothing in the rules that requires an embarked unit to shoot at the same target as their transport.

2.- Models disembarked, but closer than 2", must as well shoot the same target as its transport?

No. Again, the transport is a separate unit. As it's not an Independant Character it can't join the squad, so the fact that they are within 2" is irrelevant. Separate units means no requirement to shoot at the same thing.

3.- Models disembarked closer than 2" to the vehicle, are the vehicle and the transported unit positively 2 different targets or can they both be shot at by a single enemy unit?

How close together they are makes no difference to the shooting rules. When a unit is shooting, they choose a single enemy unit as a target (aside from those rare units that have a specific special rule allowing them to target multiple units, obviously). So no, you can't target both the unit and the transport.

4.- models farther than 2", totally hidden behind the vehicle (that is, out of LoS)

...b.- cannot be targeted if LoS needed.

4.5.- the models did NOT disembark last turn (they did it before), but are within 2" close to their dedicated transport, totally hidden, too

...b.- cannot be targeted if LoS needed.

5.- Assault phase, transported unit's charge & transport tank shock(if declared) must be declared Vs. the same unit?

No, for the same reasons as the shooting answers.

6.- Models disembarked closer than 2", are charged and the transport is, let's say, a spore (with WS and attacks value), is it considered as

...a.- a multiple assault against 2 separte units,
&
...d.- either of them can be base-contacted and the other remain unengaged (not being able to join combat)
for hits-wound allocation purposes?

They're two separate units. So they would both need to be engaged to be a part of the combat, and would count as separate units in combat.

6.5.- Models disembarked farther than 2", are charged and their transport is, let's say, a spore (with WS and attacks value), is it considered as

Same answer.



Pretty much all of these seem to be coming from the misapprehension that the transport is a part of the owning unit. This is not the case. A dedicated transport is taken as a part of the unit's options, but is in all ways a separate unit.

Swift and clear, thank you.

I read some time ago a post where I understood a unit could be shot at "through" their transport (cannot recall if that answer was just for template weapons, or any type) and perhaps that disturbed my interpretation over many other situations, most of them exposed in this post.

That and having a 2x zoanthrope brood and their mycetic spore endure an assault carried on by a rune priest/3x wolfguard helped by a 4x sky claw pack w/PF-wolfguard (dude, they survived!!! ... 1 zoanthrope, 1 wound left, but they remained stuck there ) made me want to know if something was not dealt with properly, just compare units, there's nothing close to balance for that outcome to be even remotely expected...

ENKHANNA wrote:I read some time ago a post where I understood a unit could be shot at "through" their transport (cannot recall if that answer was just for template weapons, or any type) and perhaps that disturbed my interpretation over many other situations, most of them exposed in this post.

Ah, this is part of the rules for template weapons. When you shoot, you target a single unit (though a few units have special rules allowing them to break this restriction). When you shoot a template weapon you must place the template to cover the maximum number of models in the target unit, and none of your own models. However, as long as you follow these restrictions, you're free to adjust the template to cover other enemy models from OTHER enemy units and hit them too.

Flamers can be good for hitting squads huddled right next to their transports like this, though the flamer itself generally has low odds of actually hurting the vehicle. It can be great combined with another gun, though. A few units carry both flamers and antitank weapons; a Dreadnought, for example, can have a multimelta and heavy flamer for only 115pts. A great move, if you can pull it off (often with a drop pod) is to move within 8" of a transport whose squad has disembarked, so that the squad is between your Dread and the target vehicle. Fire both your multimelta and your heavy flamer targeting the vehicle, incidentally ALSO covering some of the infantry squad with the flamer template while you're at it. IG Chimeras can pull this move too; they have a multilaser in the turret (decent at shooting light vehicles) and can replace their hull heavy bolter with a heavy flamer for free.

An important clarification on the above tactic, however, is that any weapon which is out of range of the target "automatically misses"; even though flamers normally auto-hit, if the targeted unit (the vehicle) is outside the range of the flame template (just about 8"), the whole template is considered to miss and won't hit the infantry squad either.

Mannahnin wrote:so that the squad is between your Dread and the target vehicle.

Ok, what if the squad is behind the vehicle, is it hit? (note the firing model's height and the vehicle's, often greater)

Sure! As I said in my first paragraph. See page 29 "Template": "Any models fully or partially under the template are hit".

So, if I dropstrike a carnifex and it comes out behind the spore, does it count as obscured, thus gaining 4+ cover save?
If so, does it grant as well 4+ save for an enemy unit shot at by the carnifex as firing through cover or not?

That can only be answered by checking line of sight. If half of the carnifex is obscured by the cover then the fex will get a save.

Likewise, when the carnifex is shooting, if he can only see half the squad because of the pod then they get a cover save.

It is quite possible that the two will be different - just because you have a cover save does not mean that your target will.

I think that if the carnifex is next to the spore (closer than 2") counts as a regular infantry unit behind a barricade, accupying a well-protected fire position, thus having cover save while granting none, but that's precisely what I'm asking opinions for.

ENKHANNA wrote:I think that if the carnifex is next to the spore (closer than 2") counts as a regular infantry unit behind a barricade, accupying a well-protected fire position, thus having cover save while granting none, but that's precisely what I'm asking opinions for.

You misunderstand. Monstrous Creatures have a restriction that they can only claim to be in cover when 50% of the actual model is obscured. So in the case of a Carnifex near a Spore Pod if 50% of the Carnifex is obscured by the Pod from the firer's point of view, then the Carnifex would be considered in cover. Otherwise it is not.

Ok, answer noted...
Now, what about units shot at by a carnifex? Do they get cover save if it shoots from behind its spore or not?

THat was already answered - it is the same as for any unit: only if the pod (or any other terrain or unit) obscures the enemy unit

It is entirely possible for you to be in cover yourself, but to not actually *grant* cover to an enemy unit.

Now that's an answer I can, as well as my fellow players, easily understand.
Thank you all.