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Heya
(Not sure if this is the right place to post, please notify me if it isn't )

After imagining time over time how cool it would be to have an army with tons of Terminators, I finally decided to just buy some
However, I'm not sure which army is most suitable for what I'm planing. This is where you come in

I've thought through which armies could work and thought about different army lists I could try, but since I don't want to post ten billion lists, I'll just leave a few thoughts, listen to your opinions and then make a list or two.

Dark Angels:
+ relativly cheap Terminators and Cybots (fully equiped)
+ Apothecaries! (with fnp termies will no longer die easaly when shot at by guardsmen )

- Special Characters aren't really interesting... There really isn't much to complain about, they're just plain simple terminators

Space Wolves (Logan!)
+ Logan is pretty awesome
+ Counerattack!
+ cheap termies (without wargear)
+ cool models
+ Cool psykers (If I decide to take one or two...)

- Expensive wargear (you pay for stormshields etc)
- Expensive veneralbe Dreads
- You need drop pods (I like drop pods, but I don't really want to buy eight of them)

Black Templars
+ Furious Charge / Tank Hunters
+ Double Heavy weapons
+ BT got style

- Army wouldn't totaly be based on Terminators (would probably also involve couple of Crusaders and Land Raiders)

So who do you think have the best terminator army and are still fairly competitive and interesting to play?
lg
FFE

Competitively, Dark Angels with the new FAQ. Personally, I also find them the coolest. I hate Wolves ( befitting a DA player I suppose ), and I don't care much for Templars.

Plus DA get to mix termy weapons. (tell me if wolves and Templars also can?)

With the new FAQ, Dark angels are better for pure Terminator than Wolves.

30x TH/SS Termies and Shrike with some scoring scouts is also viable with the vanilla codex.

Hmm I just realized that only one DW squad can have an apothacary... damn
Anyhow, how would you play Death Wing? Deepstrike everything and hope they make it into CC the next round?

Fire_for_effect wrote:Hmm I just realized that only one DW squad can have an apothacary... damn
Anyhow, how would you play Death Wing? Deepstrike everything and hope they make it into CC the next round?

The standard cookie cutter lists that have been floating around are

Belial- TH/SS or LCs

5x Terminators, 4x TH/SS, Cyclone, 1x chainfist- Six of these squads, one has banner and medic for belial.

Sprinkle in some Typhoon/MM speeders or venerable dreadnoughts. I really don't know how this plays though, I assume either deathwing assault or just start on the board and shoot. Pretty boring IMO, I would suggest a hybrid list with some Terminators (Vanilla codex, or BA codex).

The DW sounds alright the way you put it and I really like the mix of venerable Dreads and Termies, but you're right in saying it seems a little boring. This is actually what I preferred about the SW, they seem more interesting because of more wargear and special characters.
Hmm walking doesn't sound to good, but with deathwing assault you pretty much only get three units of terminators (two at 1500) in the first turn, which means that they will probably be torn to shreds real quick. Did the DA get the Droppod assault thingy that half of them deploy first round in the FAQ? That would at least allow the Cybots to come and help quickly.

I gues what I'll do is just buy a couple of Terminators (probably the Space Wolves ones because I just love the models and the kits) and then simply try different things.

thanks
FFE

scubasteve04 wrote:With the new FAQ, Dark angels are better for pure Terminator than Wolves.

30x TH/SS Termies and Shrike with some scoring scouts is also viable with the vanilla codex.

This is a very scary group. Terminators should not be able to fleet IMHO. Increasing their threat range from 12" to 13"-18" increases their overall effect by 50%. That means they are able to get to you in turn 2 instead of turn 3.

labmouse42 wrote:

scubasteve04 wrote:With the new FAQ, Dark angels are better for pure Terminator than Wolves.

30x TH/SS Termies and Shrike with some scoring scouts is also viable with the vanilla codex.

This is a very scary group. Terminators should not be able to fleet IMHO. Increasing their threat range from 12" to 13"-18" increases their overall effect by 50%. That means they are able to get to you in turn 2 instead of turn 3.

Yes, Shrike makes alot of things broken and assault termis is one. If you have the points nothing is better than assault termis jumping out of LR's with shrike. You can be in assault in turn one. It's the reason why Shrike edges out the other heros in the reg codex. His rending LCs are a nice bonus.

Also a termi chaplain with assault termis is a good idea, you'll re roll misses (and wounds too, if you throw in some LC termis)

DA can use Deathwing as troops with the 130 point "special" character (he's reall not quite as good as a regular Marine CPT imo, but...), and fearless Terminator squads camping on objectives can win you a fair number of games... I also REALLY like the ability to mix and match weapon loadouts within the squad, so TH/SS, LC, Chainfist and heavy weapons in most of my squads... Unlike my wolves, the TH/SS are not 63 points each... Mind, I think that the actual point value should be more than the basic terminator, but the Wolves took it to a bit of an extreme...

One of the bigger advantages I've found are the teleport homers on all of the Ravenwing bikes (which also scout). Allows me to either Deathwing Assault on turn one or just DS in with a great deal of accuracy... :-) 'course YMMV...

I'd go with Dark Angels because they're cheap, they're fearless, and they're troop choices. So if your deal breaker is the number of termies you can run, I'd just go with Dark Angels.

What I do is I take a Ravenwing Attack Squad and scout move them on turn 1 and because they have teleport homers on their bikes you have a safe way of deep striking terminators. I run a dual wing army pretty much. Bikes are a very nice touch, I use them to pop vehicles w/ meltas. I usually run an attack bike with them also. The other 2 fast attack slots go to typhoon speeders because they are so cheap with the codex. I personally don't run a chapter banner because I don't feel TH/SS terminators need extra attacks. If you have the extra points to spare, go for it but that many TH/SS terminators usually do the trick. I also throw in a chainfist or a single lightning claw terminator w/ the squads just for a little variety.

Blood angels assault terminator squad with a sanguinary priest in terminator armour.

Heya
thanks for all the answers. Because I want to finaly decide which termies and colors to buy, I made three lists that seem best to me. Would be cool if you could advise me which one is best or how to make them better! (@Thamor: I also thought about Blood angels but with the bloodies you pretty much only get two squads of terminators, even though the feel no pain is pretty awesome)

Dark Angels:

1 HQ

Belial
- Twin LC
- - - > 130 Points


2 Elite

Cybot
- venerable
- Cybot-CCW
- Heavy Flamer
- AC
+ - Drop pod
- - - > 200 Points



Cybot
- venerable
- Cybot-CCW
- Heavy Flamer
- Multi-melta
+ - Drop pod
- - - > 200 Points


5 Troops
5 Deathwing-Terminators
- 1 x LC
- 3 x TH/SS
- 1 x Chainfist
- Heavy Flamer
- Apothecarius
- - - > 255 Points

5 Deathwing-Terminatoren
- 1 x LC
- 4 x TH/SS
- Cyclon RL
- - - > 235 Points

5 Deathwing-Terminatoren
- 1 x LC
- 4 x TH/SS
- Cyclon RL
- - - > 235 Points

5 Deathwing-Terminators
- 1x LC
- 3x TH/SS
- Chainfist
- AC


5 Deathwing-Terminatoren
- 1 x LC
- 4 x TH/SS
- Cyclon ML
- - - > 235 Points


1 Fast Attack

Ravenwing bike squad
- 6 Space Marine Biker
- 1 x Flamer
- 1 x Melta
+ Sergeant
- Powerfist
- - - > 260 Points


Total 2000P

Strategy:
Ehm not that sure. I guess as was advised scout move them, deep strike what ever goes and shoot. Next turn hope to bring in the rest and kill everything
I like the venerable dreads. Sure as only av units they could have some trouble, but I think if they come in second or third turn, wreck heavy stuff with the AC/MM and then go loose CCing and flaming everything they should be fine.

Next up are the Black Templar:

1 HQ

Emperor's Champion
- Accept any challenge
- - - > 140 Points


3 Elite

5 Terminators
- 2 x AC
- Tank Hunters
- - - > 255 Points

5 Terminators
- 2x Cyclon ML
-Tank Hunters
- - - > 265 Points

5 Assault Terminators
- 3 x EC
- 2 x TH/SS
- Furious Charge
+ Land Raider Crusader
- - - > 480 Points


2 Troops

Crusader Squad
8 Marines
- 6 x BP/CCW
- Powerfist
- Melta
5 Neophytes
- 5 x BP/CCW
+ Land Raider Crusader
- - - > 468 Points

Crusader Squad
8 Marines
- 6 x BP/CCW
- Powerfist
- Melta
5 Neophytes
- 5 x BP/CCW
- - - > 203 Points


1 Heavy Support

Land Raider
- - - > 250 Points


Total: 2061P

Ok the list is 61 Points over the maximum? Any ideas how to make this better? Is this even a good list? I figured the Assault Terminators and the first Crusader Squad (joined by the Emp. C) would dash forward to get into CC, the two shooty termie squads walk behind the LR and shoot all their guns and the second Crusader squad gets to an important objective and camps it while the LR fires at stuff.

Third list would be with Shirke. I haven't really understood why Termies are so broken with Shrike, since all they get is fleet. IIRC fleet only allows them to run and then charge so yeah they gain 1-6 inches per turn... right?
Anyhow here goes:

1 HQ

Captain Shrike
- - - > 195 1 HQ



3 Elite

Terminator Assault Squad
10 Assault Termies
- 9 x TH/SS
- 1 x LC
- - - > 400 Points

Terminator Assault Squad
10 Assault Termies
- 9 x TH/SS
- 1 x LC
- - - > 400 Points

Terminator Assault Squad
10 Assault Termies
- 9 x TH/SS
- 1 x LC
- - - > 400 Points


3 Troops

Scout squad
5 Scouts
- 4 x Sniper rifle
- ML
- Camo cloaks
- - - > 100 Points

Scout squad
5 Scouts
- 4 x Sniper rifle
- ML
- Camo cloaks
- - - > 100 Points


Scout squad
5 Scouts
- 4 x Sniper rifle
- ML
- Camo cloaks
- - - > 100 Points



2 Fast Attack

2 Land Speeders
- 2 x HF
- 2 x MM
- - - > 140 Points

2 Land Speeders
- 2 x Heavy Bolters
- 2 x Typhoon-ML
- - - > 180 Points

Total 2015P

wow. This setup even makes Terminators look expendable I guess the tactic would be that the scouts grab my or other objectives and then just camp and shoot, while the Land speeders go hunting tanks or other stuff and the Terminators advance and open a can of fresh home-made Whoop-ass on my foe I like it^^

So in conclusion, I like all of these lists. Which ones do you think would actually fare well in gameplay?

lg
FFE

Shrike giving fleet is one of those rules your read and you're like big deal. Kinda like how Marneus gives your army the ability to pass or fail morale checks. When you put it in practice your opponents are cought completely off guard.

Say you go on turn on. have a LRC full of termis which is 8. You move the LR, move out 2" run D6 (dont' roll a 1 or 2) and charge into assult you could be destroying a whole unit of something on turn one.

I played an opponent with a thundercannon list once. the LR destroyed one with melta, and another was assaulted on and destroyed by the termies. The 3+ invul with the SS kept most of them alive for the next turn where the termis destroyed a whole tactical sq.... The game went very different from that point.

Shrike termies is an option, I played it for a while and my friends hated it (it wasnt that great, its just pretty depressing to try and torrent down 20 THSS). Its alright, pretty dull to play though.

DONT deepstrike the deathwing army, at most deepstrike one squad in so they come in automatically on t1, you want your guys on the board and shooting. The idea is that most armies dont have enough AP shooting at range to kill off 30 THSS, so you can just camp and pick off KP's off transports and win, if something comes close you kill them in CC. Problem is, first horde you face, you lose. Simple as that. I say that from experience. Thats what prevents them from being tournament viable. IMO DA work best as a dualwing army, with ravenwing and deathwing.

Whats up with the BT list? Why land raiders and a mix of assault and tactical terminators? Does the army want to shoot or pwn face in CC? It seems to be trying to do too many things at once.

Wolves dont do full TDA, ever. Or they can, but it sucks =) Loganwing is lots of 5 man squads w/ CML, and its actually pretty good. Not the place to go to for lots of terminators though.

Jabbdo wrote:Shrike termies is an option, I played it for a while and my friends hated it (it wasnt that great, its just pretty depressing to try and torrent down 20 THSS). Its alright, pretty dull to play though.

DONT deepstrike the deathwing army, at most deepstrike one squad in so they come in automatically on t1, you want your guys on the board and shooting. The idea is that most armies dont have enough AP shooting at range to kill off 30 THSS, so you can just camp and pick off KP's off transports and win, if something comes close you kill them in CC. Problem is, first horde you face, you lose. Simple as that. I say that from experience. Thats what prevents them from being tournament viable. IMO DA work best as a dualwing army, with ravenwing and deathwing.

Whats up with the BT list? Why land raiders and a mix of assault and tactical terminators? Does the army want to shoot or pwn face in CC? It seems to be trying to do too many things at once.

Wolves dont do full TDA, ever. Or they can, but it sucks =) Loganwing is lots of 5 man squads w/ CML, and its actually pretty good. Not the place to go to for lots of terminators though.

Jabaddo is right. All Terminators are both boring to play and annoying to play against.

Build a regular SM list and build a vanguard of Terminators (TH/SS in a land raider with a libby or vulkan/lysander is great). Using them alongside regular marines really makes them feel powerful and fun to use too.

I would be aiming more toward the BT list, although jabaddo is right saying it lacks focus.

Heres an example of a Imperial Fist list I use:

Lysander-200pts
7x TH/SS Termies, LRC, MM, EA- 555pts

10x Marines, ML, melta, combimelta, rhino, dozer, HK- 235pts
10x Marines, ML, flamer, combiflamer, rhino, dozer, HK- 230pts

Typhoon- 90pts
Typhoon- 90pts
Typhoon- 90pts

Vindicator, dozer- 120pts
Vindicator, dozer- 120pts
Vindicator, dozer- 120pts

1850pts

Regular Marines with a Terminator Assault unit at the front. Lysander and the termies a total of 11 ablative 2+/3++ stubborn wounds, and Lysanders str 10 ap 1 can kill anything.

Hmm MisterMoon you're pretty much talking about termies when in a land raider but on foot?
I believe you (Jabbdo) when you say they're dull to play. I can imagine there's not to much tactical gameplay in marching forward and hitting stuff...

Hmm using deathwing for shooty gaming? I thought the whole awesome part about terminators are the TH/SS and LCs in CC, wouldn' they be horribly outgunned with their 4-5ish Cyclons? That translates to about ten ML shots, which at 2000P every SW list can beat. How would you run dualwing with tons of termies?

Well the deal with the BT list should be, that the lascan. Land Raider and a Crusader squad camp an objective since they're effective in CC, got the LR lascannons and are pretty tough to kill. Then the other two Land Raiders advance and kill stuff in close combat while the tactical terminators walk and shoot tanks.

Up to now I'm still pretty undecided what to go for and what colors to paint those stupid termies x)

lg
FFE

Charging out of a LR yes. Also it's kinda boring. I usually use termis nowadays as secondary synergy with other ideas.
Lysander was mentioned... He's killer with shooty termis because of bolt drill

MisterMoon wrote:Charging out of a LR yes. Also it's kinda boring. I usually use termis nowadays as secondary synergy with other ideas.
Lysander was mentioned... He's killer with shooty termis because of bolt drill

And the fact that your adding an additional four 2+/3++ wounds to the squad helps

Deathwing works against most shooty armies at range because most shooty armies cant take down 30 w+ 3++ guys at range. Its really hard to do. They will be around 48" away, so only your 48" (possibly 36") guns will reach, so that means mostly single shot stuff like autocannons and lascannons. You need 15 lascannon wounds to kill 5 THSS, which means 27 lascannon shots at bs4. Yeah. Meanwhile the deathwing snipe off one razor with their CML's, and win in KP's.

Deathwing works against shooty armies because they get a couple of KP's, and just dont give them up at range. Sure, swolves have gakloads of missiles, but you dont care because they bounce off your 2+ save. In obj missions just sit on them and force your opponent to push you off.

The problem with a deathwing army of, say, 6 deathwing squads and little else means that hordes WILL rape you, because you have no way to stop them, maneuverable deathstars (read: Thunderwolf cavalry) will rape you, because you cant outshoot ot outfight them, and if your opponent does have the means to kill you at range (lots of plasma, lot of blasts, lots of torrent fire, lots of long range ap 1/2) you die. Against some matchups they're great (but then again, most armies are) but there are way too many armies that they will struggle against for them to be considered top tier.

They're still funny to pull out now and then and surprise people with (if somebody at your FLGS is playing razorspam, pull them out. You'll deliver such an asswhupping he'll never want to bring out his razors again.)

I've played a shrike list with something like:

Shrike

Lib, TDA+SS (gate+null zone)

20x THSS

3x min scouts

3x vindi

And it was OK, infiltrate one squad with shrike, gate with the other squad, charge t2 with 20 THSS. It was funny. The vindis can easily be swapped for autolas preds, speeders, or whatnot, its really a matter of personal preference.

Whirlwinds are actually viable in a DW army. They are great against hordes but horrible against pretty much everything else. The exact opposite of Termies. And since DW rapes light mech and razorspam the 170-255pt disadvantage against those armies is actually managble.
For instance, you can do

Belial
6xDW squads (CML, CF, 4xTH&SS)+Apot
3xTyphoons
2xWWs

in a 2k game

Ok for whoever is still observing this thread, I have found something I pretty much like

Here goes:


1 HQ

Belial
- Twin LC
- - - > 130 Points


2 Elite

Cybot
- venerable
- Cybot-CCW
- Heavy Flamer
- AC
- - - > 150 Points



Cybot
- venerable
- Cybot-CCW
- ML
- Lasca
- - - > 175 Points


5 Troops

5 Deathwing-Terminators
- 4 x TH/SS
- 1 x Chainfist
- AC
- Apothecarius
- - - > 280 Points

5 Deathwing-Terminators
- 1 x LC
- 4 x TH/SS
- Cyclon RL
- - - > 235 Points

5 Deathwing-Terminators
- 1 x LC
- 4 x TH/SS
- Cyclon RL
- - - > 235 Points



5 Deathwing-Terminators
- 1 x LC
- 4 x TH/SS
- Cyclon ML
- - - > 235 Points

5 Deathwing-Terminators
- 2 x TH/SS
- 2 x Stormbolter / PF
- 1 x Stormbolter / Chainfist
- Cyclon ML
- - - > 235 Points

2 Fast Attack

Landspeeder Typhoon
- - - > 75 Points

Landspeeder Typhoon
- - - > 75 Points

2 Heavy Support

Whirlwind
- - - > 85 Points

Whirlwind
- - - > 85 Points

Total 2000 Points

So tactic is to deploy pretty much everything, keep my distance and bombard my enemy with a ton of missils (Note how every unit exept for the first Terminator squad uses some sort of ML?^^)
If anything gets close enough to be dangerous, the Terminators can whoop it in CC
The only things which worry me are
1. The speeders who seem very fragile (why be happy to have hard to kill terminators with 2+/3++ and then have av10 speeders x( )
2. The Whirlwinds, who are awesome against hords for their point value (two big blasts for 170P hell weah), but have a very low av aswell, so really need to fire indirectly...
3. Well I'd like to have a Scriptor or even Ezekiel in there, but I they just aren't worth their points are they...

Anyhow, as soon as I get to the local gaming store, I'll get myself some termies and colours

lg
FFE

I believe Deathwing librarians have a psychic hood that can cancel powers anywhere on the board, as opposed to the 24" range of other armies, but their Ld9 means it's only going to work something like 28% of the time against Ld10.

This was something I'd been knocking around, with bikes for teleport homers & meltaguns & missile launcher devastator for flexible anti-armor or anti-horde (the latter is said to be hammer & shield Deathwing's worst enemies).

Belial
lightning claws
130

5 terminators
hammers & shields
cyclone, apothecary
265

3x 5 terminators
cyclone, hammers & shields
705

2x 3 bikes
2 meltas, sergeant w/ meltabombs, attack bike w/ multimelta
390

3x 5 devastators
4 missile launchers
510

I believe that's 2000 points exactly. Anyway, just an idea I had.