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Simply put, how do get the most out of this guy? I recently got hold of a OOP model, but I have no idea how I should arm him. My armys basic setup will be a squad of warriors with deathspitters advancing behind a horde of termagants and some deep striking Ravenors and Trygons/Mawlocs, so I'm unsure how to use him. My first thought was to use him as a fire magnet with crushing claws and regeneration, something that can't be left alone basicly. Anyone got another use for him?

Give him 2 t/l devourers and attach a prime with a bone sword and lashwip and regen, you then get cover saves, are pretty scary in CC and throw out a lot of str 6 shots. Don't bother with crushing claws or regen on the fex itself, they're overpriced and don't add much.

Personally for Carnifex's I'd recommend them having them in a brood of 2, supported by a couple of Trygons etc.

Obviously Trygons are almost everyones first choice when it comes to HS, however, the Carnifex's are harder hitting and tougher so whilst the enemy focuses on the immediate threat of the Trygons, your Carni's can advance largely unmolested.

I've also heard good things about TL Devourers and bad things about Crushing Claws. I think running them near-naked in the above example works well too.

They're definitely not as bad as everyone seems to make out however.

Also, you might want to slap on glands and frag spines. s10/i4 on the charge with grenades is pretty scary.

If you wanna go all-out on the Carni' deal, then as MrDrummachine suggested - prime it!

I've personally been thinking of trying a dual-carni' w/ dual-prime IC-attachment.
- Furthermore, speculations happened in my mind of adding Venom's - they'll greatly benefit your MCs overall (carni/prime included). Added Catalyst/FnP, you're looking at cover saves from bubble wrapping gaunts aswell, and you're good to stomp across the field with amassed MCs.

However you wanna outfit the Carnies is up to how the rest of the list looks. Dual TL-dev is great, and with primes, those 24 dice is sure gonna hurt just about anything you decide to focus-fire...

Reading these comments really makes me wanna run a MC army. I was unsure about the devourers since he only has BS3, but with 6 shoots some should hit atleast. I'm liking JustDaves and Oscarius ideas so far, but that's assuming they get the charge, but since they'll have a gaunt screen I guess that's easy to get.
What if I wanted DS him? Again the BS3 worries me here.

Just Dave wrote:Obviously Trygons are almost everyones first choice when it comes to HS, however, the Carnifex's are harder hitting and tougher

Err. . .no?

Attaching a prime to one (or two primes to 2) or podding a single dakkafex or screamer-killer both work well for me.
The Strength advantage is useful, as is the ability to be joined by ICs.

Well I'd say you've got a good start for a MC army; Warriors, Carnifex's and Trygons all attract high strength weaponry so you should have some saturation.
I'd recommend Tervigons, Hive Guard and Tyrants on top of this however as these are all good units that maximise the high-toughness saturation.

They can be quick a nice nuisance/distraction when deep-struck, it will be another one of those times for your opponent where it's almost not worth shooting it, but if you leave it unmolested it'll cause you some serious problems.

I think either method will work, if you go for the latter though, I'd probably make him shooty.

Best use for a Carnifex is a Tervigon stand-in until GW decides to do something besides release different poses of dudes in power armor with bolters and chain swords.

If you're absolutely dedicated to the folly of using them you've got pretty much one choice. T6-R-Us and cram as many as you can into your heavy support slots to work in concert with as many other monstrous creatures as you can get in a list and walk along behind them with a prime in each unit for wound soaking and cheap regeneration.

Even in that situation however the number of points-per-wound is still in favor of the Trygon and then loading up on Tervigons in troops/HQ slot to get T6 on the board in mass numbers, with actually useful functionality and even more wounds to boot.

SumYungGui wrote:Best use for a Carnifex is a Tervigon stand-in until GW decides to do something besides release different poses of dudes in power armor with bolters and chain swords..

Oh, you know they never will!

Use it as a fire magnet, but I'd keep it cheap, with two pairs of scything talons.

As MrDrumMachine said, crushing claws and regeneration are expensive and don't do enough to justify.

Id have to disagree on the fire magnet idea being tossed around. I rape my wifes carnifex's pretty badly. AP3 weapons are easy to get. Ive seen some pertty neat things done with shooty carnifex.

Actually there are quite a few variants that work.

1. Attach a single Prime to a single fex or 2 Primes to 2 fexes. A lot of points, but great at smashing things up. Upgrades are up to you, though I like using 2x TL devourers.

2. DS with TL devourers. Using 1 is suicide. They will simply fail to impress. But use 3 and combine them with Zoanthropes also spodding in and you have a nasty collection of anti-tank and anti-horde right there. Throw in a tyrant with wings, hive commander and also his own set of devourers and your damage output is just insane (potentially 48 TL S6 shots a turn).

Of course if you want to just include it in your usual setup then the first option sounds like it's for you.

What does a podding carnifex bring to the table that a Trygon doesn't, only better and cheaper or a Trygon Prime for just plain better? For a carnie + pod + twin linked devourers you're up to 230 points apiece. For 10 more points you get a Trygon prime which does all the same stuff but better. If you're absolutely determined to use a Carnifex you have no realistic competitive reason to take them other than the one thing they do that nobody else does, 3 MCs in one force org slot. That's it. That is their only advantage.

Now if you're wanting to play them for fluffy armies more power to you. Knock yourself out, just don't try to pass them off as a competitive alternative instead of a fluff one.

Billinator wrote:

SumYungGui wrote:Best use for a Carnifex is a Tervigon stand-in until GW decides to do something besides release different poses of dudes in power armor with bolters and chain swords..

Oh, you know they never will!

HERESY!

Are crushing claws just a no no then?
Could someone explain why?
They give at least 1 extra attack with a potential of up to 3 per round of combat. With the carnis high str and low WS isnt that better?

Ratius wrote:Are crushing claws just a no no then?
Could someone explain why?
They give at least 1 extra attack with a potential of up to 3 per round of combat. With the carnis high str and low WS isnt that better?

You give up a set of scything talons to get them so you gain a couple attacks but all of your attacks lose accuracy. This expensive upgrade does still net you more hits in close combat but not as much as you might expect - something like a quarter of a hit on the charge against things that need a 4+ to hit. It also drops your attacks down to I1. If you don't take crushing claws you get to hit before powerfists when you charge.

ChocolateGork wrote:

Billinator wrote:

SumYungGui wrote:Best use for a Carnifex is a Tervigon stand-in until GW decides to do something besides release different poses of dudes in power armor with bolters and chain swords..

Oh, you know they never will!

HERESY!

I like to tell myself that there's been no tyranid second wave because GW is so disgusted with their new codex that they are working on redoing it already.


It's a lie, of course, but it helps me sleep at night...

SumYungGui wrote:What does a podding carnifex bring to the table that a Trygon doesn't, only better and cheaper or a Trygon Prime for just plain better?

In short, S10 attacks and a second MC.

Kirsanth hit the nail on the head. Although there are a lot of things that a carnifex and spod brings to the table that a Trygon (Prime) doesn't.

1. 12 shots that are twin linked. Also if you cause a morale check with this gun remember to deduct 1 from their LD.
2. Higher S gun means you can get more pens.
3. S9/10 on the charge is great for ID.

Now number 4 is where is gets interesting. Spods deserve a whole new section. They provide cover for a fex, they have (up to) 2 guns that can shoot and they block firing lanes. Good placement with these guys is everything,

In short carnifexes bring a lot to the table. You just have to know how to use them.

2 guns at bs2. And provide a super easy killpoint.
And then you cant decide to walk your fex if the situation calls for it.

SumYungGui wrote:What does a podding carnifex bring to the table that a Trygon doesn't, only better and cheaper or a Trygon Prime for just plain better? For a carnie + pod + twin linked devourers you're up to 230 points apiece. For 10 more points you get a Trygon prime which does all the same stuff but better. If you're absolutely determined to use a Carnifex you have no realistic competitive reason to take them other than the one thing they do that nobody else does, 3 MCs in one force org slot. That's it. That is their only advantage.

Now if you're wanting to play them for fluffy armies more power to you. Knock yourself out, just don't try to pass them off as a competitive alternative instead of a fluff one.

The other thing you can do is that is a perfectly good tactic is to attach a prime to a single model and get 4+ cover for both with ease. I'm not sure if you're just willfully ignorant about it but you certainly haven't explained why it's "bad" by any stretch of the imagination other than just saying carnifexes suck. It provides accurate suppression fire against most regular transports, can threaten almost any unit in CC and is resilient to shooting. I'm not sure what's uncompetitive about it at all.

The argument isn't that fex's are bad, but that spod fex's are. All the big advantages of Fex's over other HS MCs (having more than one in a unit, being able to attach the prime) go away when you put it in a spod.

Even then a dakkafex is a nice unit... except that you have to compare it to trygons (especially the prime) and mawlocs, who are also deep striking MCs, and have the option not to DS, whereas anything in a spod has no choice.

From what Ive seen playing against my wife, the few things that are good in spods are for example, devourer gaunts. Shes had a brood or two drop down and just unload on my mobs. I dunno how well that would work against say MEQ but Im sure the principal is similar. Sure they have good armor saves, but they also have less numbers. She has tried spod with a carnifex and its been not so good. Sure with the combination of the spod/carnifex they block alot of LOS, but both are easy to kill with shooting. She seems to like her fex be further back and shooting/waiting for me to come closer then dropping a solo fex on its own that close to my boyz

Zoanthropes are also great in spods, especially if you have a lot of stuff entering the table at the same time via hive commander etc.

I have been having good results running a brood of 2, both with twin devourers. That's 24 st6, twin linked shots on the move. And the Bash Brothers (as I like to call them) can bring some pain in assault. The only downside I have found is if they get into assault with something nasty where the really pale in comparison to the Trygon.

Running them with two Primes is something I really want to try. I think getting a cover save from gaunts and the lash whips to allow the Cranifexes to swing first when charging into cover would be pretty fantastic, although it is such an expensive unit.

Reecius wrote:I have been having good results running a brood of 2, both with twin devourers. That's 24 st6, twin linked shots on the move. And the Bash Brothers (as I like to call them) can bring some pain in assault. The only downside I have found is if they get into assault with something nasty where the really pale in comparison to the Trygon.

Running them with two Primes is something I really want to try. I think getting a cover save from gaunts and the lash whips to allow the Cranifexes to swing first when charging into cover would be pretty fantastic, although it is such an expensive unit.

I've been having my thought about giving the Venomthropes a try in a Carni'/Prime list. It is, of course, a pesky T4 creature. But with proper setup, then who knows?

The Venomthropes does seem to have a decent amount of force multipliers (not that it compensates for the T4). But with the primes attached, or alternatively, in a Spod for later use, their buffs might just come into play. The thing is, of course, that they're most likely to gain alot of attention from any S8+ in play.
- If primes gets attached, you can FnP the Venomthropes and primes, and allocate wounds accordingly. This will most likely cause them to die, but in the meantime, cause all your MCs not to get shot at.
- If in pod, they might just be more likely to actually get a chance to support the armies assaults.

@KingCracker:
On an unrelated note, I feel strongly curious about one point,
How many (hundreds of) people do, exactly like me, bitterly envy you for being able to play WH40K, regularly as it seems, with your wife?
Mine's comments about the game ain't often even closest to appreciation, rather than plain despise.