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Heya there,

Thousand sons are extremely powerful, in fact I have the feeling they only rock on large games. because in tiny games (of like 500p or 750p) they are just with too few.
Or am I wrong and are they able to still wreak havoc no matter the number?

So enlighten me, how do I use Thousand Sons in low point games, for those who have hints on high point games, you may add your wisdom as well

This is not a rules question; seems best for the Tactics forum, so I'm moving it.

Personally, I'd say you're wrong; Thousand Sons seem to be weak in almost all circumstances.

They are just as 'fragile' as CSM's to small arms fire and their invulnerable save only really seems to benefit them against the likes of a Battlecannon and even then, 5+ isn't that good.
Whilst the invulnerable save does provide a benefit in assault, Thousand Sons are weak here too. They can work well to hold up a strong unit such as TH/SS termies, due to their Invulnerable, fearlessness and counter-attacking Sorcerer, however, they still are sub-optimal in assault.
Furthermore, they are also slow, requiring a rhino to be able to do much good, whilst they are screwed if it's blown up (only AV11) due to S+P.

Not only do they suffer all of the above flaws, but they pay through the nose for them; they are significantly more expensive than normal units and frankly aren't much better.

The Aspiring Sorcerer is good, but he can struggle to merge well with the Thousand Sons and is expensive in himself. Bolt of Change allows him some anti-tank firepower, however he would then be wasting the use of the rest of the unit. Warptime allows him some close-combat potential, but they really shouldn't be in close combat.
Doombolt and Winds can work well however.

Also, in the mech-dominated enviroment, Thousand Sons have nothing that can really threaten a tank. Doombolt can, but it's nothing special and restricts the use of the rest of the unit.

Thousand Sons aren't all bad though; they are still good at securing objectives and are very nasty against MeQ's. However, to me at least, this doesn't compensate for their flaws.
Ultimately I'd say CSM's are always a better option.

As for a general TS list, I'd recommend having a Squad of 2 of TS, 2 Daemon Princes, Vindicators and Melta-armed Chaos Space Marines and Chosen; this army would excel in the 24" mark.

I played against a Thousandzilla army recently......1850pts

1 Greater Demon
2 Daemon Princes with wings
2 squads of regular Chaos Marines with rhinos.
1 squad of Thousand Sons (18) with Sorceror, which were used to spread out to cover two objectives!
3 Dreadnoughts with extra ccw's.
2 Defilers.
2 Obliterators.

Needless to say, I did not bring enough melta/las to deal with all this. Liked the way this army worked and the player was very experienced. Whole army was painted and converted into a great Egyptian theme.
This was not a pure Thousand Sons army, but you need to create builds with a mixture of non-cult units to be effective with the outdated Chaos codex!!!

Well, I wrote a list some time ago for 2000pts. Which was most definately NOT competitive but ended up taking third place at my local FLGS tourny!

1. Ahriman of the thousand sons - 250pts.

2. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

3. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

4. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

5. Rubric Marines
w/ 9 marines, 1 aspiring sorcerer, bolt of change and rhino - 327pts.

6. Chaos Predator
w/ twin-linked Lascannon and lascannon sponsons - 165 pts.

7. Chaos Predator
w/ twin-linked lascannon, lascannon sponsons and twin-linked bolter - 170pts.

8. 9 summoned Horrors of Tzeentch - 117pts.

total = 2000pts.

Now Ahriman and the daemons should be swapped out, they were only in for fluffical reasons, really the best way to run TS at all is maybe 1 or 2 small squads as objective holders.
Might I add that the only reason I did so well is that there is an abundance of SM and CSM in my meta so YMMV.

Just Dave wrote:Personally, I'd say you're wrong; Thousand Sons seem to be weak in almost all circumstances.

They are just as 'fragile' as CSM's to small arms fire and their invulnerable save only really seems to benefit them against the likes of a Battlecannon and even then, 5+ isn't that good.

In fact they have 4+ Inv save...but agree otherwise with everything.

As I see it, big problem with Thousand Sons is that they are so situational. Their shooting can be effective against MEQs, but against, say, Orks, the AP3 means nothing and TS will get easily overwhelmed.

The biggest problem TS have is their lack of anti tank capability.

The next problem is their absurd expensiveness.

But a solid bulk of lets say 3x9 TS can work pretty deadly together. In my experience the best way to "equip" the sorcerer is warptime, so you can deal with MCs quite easily.

Also I have to disagree about their uneffectiveness against ork boyz. Their relentless ability does make them effective, so you can put 27 TS into 30 Orks first rapidfiring then charging with the higher initiative and 4+ save against the power klaw.

But you have to make sure to have some reliable anti tank stuff in your army.
My favourite is 3x9 TS in a rhino with combi-melta, 2 Tzeentch-DPs with warptime and a land raider with Tzeentch termies+some combi meltas.

-Nazdreg- wrote:The biggest problem TS have is their lack of anti tank capability.

The next problem is their absurd expensiveness.

But a solid bulk of lets say 3x9 TS can work pretty deadly together. In my experience the best way to "equip" the sorcerer is warptime, so you can deal with MCs quite easily.

Also I have to disagree about their uneffectiveness against ork boyz. Their relentless ability does make them effective, so you can put 27 TS into 30 Orks first rapidfiring then charging with the higher initiative and 4+ save against the power klaw.

But you have to make sure to have some reliable anti tank stuff in your army.
My favourite is 3x9 TS in a rhino with combi-melta, 2 Tzeentch-DPs with warptime and a land raider with Tzeentch termies+some combi meltas.

If they charge they are I1 because of the S&P, and 27 TS are over 600 points, a 30 ork mob is what 200?

First: I have a 1ksons list, I love the feel of the army (slow & purposeful is a pretty good description), I love how they look, and I love the psychic powers.

In my "true thousand sons" list, I run the following (~2000 points):
Lord in terminator armor with MoT (or sorcerer with WT)
4x MoT Terminators with various killy-stuff (PF/HF, PW/HF, PW/TLB, PF/TLB)
Dedicated Landraider (carrying around the terminators and lord)
3x MoT Terminators w/ Chainfist + 2 combi-meltas (deepstrike tank hunters)
3x MoT Terminators w/ Chainfist + 2 combi-meltas (deepstrike tank hunters)
2x Vindicators w/ Demonic Possession
3x (8x Thousand sons + Sorcerer + Meltabombs + Bolt of Change)

...with some points left over because I probably forgot something.

It's a fun army to play, but it's not terribly effective. It also creates a 24" dead zone.

If you're looking for an effective list, my advice is to throw in some Khorne Berzerkers with the Thousand Sons. Sure they're (almost) as expensive, but at least you can take fists and they don't completely suck at assault.

Better yet, if you want to win and are going to go cross-cult, use a couple of Lash DP's and some plague marines with 9 oblits.

Second: The list is pretty terrible in the present incarnation.

As others have said, their 4++ looks nice, but it's not very helpful in most circumstances. Against regular bolter fire, it doesn't help at all. It's nice against AP3 (or better) guns, but if your sons are getting shot with this, then they're not shooting at your vehicles. And that means your opponent is dumb. It's also nice in assault, but if your sons are in assault, then you're probably doing something wrong.

There's also the AP3 bolters, which I agree are very nice. But then again, if your opponent is going to shoot it out with you, they're in cover. So your AP3 bolters take that 3+ power-armor save and make it a 4+ cover save. Woo.

TL;DR: They look good on paper. In practice, not so much.

So the TS aren't that powerful after all

conclusion I need another Daemon prince! two Dameon princes could smash up intire armies if combined well with thousand sons suppressive fire

still still TS indeed just suck ass in CC. as you all say against orks well they can't do gak...

all thx for the comments and reply's Even though you nearly all say they 'aren't good', I have seen their potential inside the bad remarks

And after all, they are better than necrons ><

ur army isn't that liked Rutger