Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Would Necromancers be a smart hero choice for low-level (1500 point) games? I was thinking this for 2 reasons.

1. They buy their spells, making their magic a lot more reliable.
2. They present less of a bit target for attack, being less...imposing.


I hear not to put them on a corpse cart, but keep them in a big unit. Is this accurate?


Even if they're not great, I'm still gonna use at least one because I converted 2 empire wizards into Necros

Any other VC beginner tips would be lovely too.

They are good, but you need vampire to be able to march, so i would try to focus on using them. If you take necromancers, have a purpose for them beofe you equip them. You DO NOT want to waste any points on these guys.

I was just gonna use them as summoning drones and to toss around VDM. So my loadout would be Inv. of Nehek, Raise Dead and VDM and possibly give them Sceptre de Noirot for better summons.

That's funny. I'd say only use them if they're on a corpse cart. Granting Always Strike First to a unit of Ghouls can make a big difference. I'm not totally clear if you can get a corpse cart without a necromancer.

I also agree that having Vampire units is critical, I'd think in a 1500 point game you couldn't afford to points on a non-vampire leader.

Isnt a bound spell the always strike first? As a result you can just roll to do the spell. Am i not right? Or do you need a necromancer mounted on corpse cart to cast it?

No, the Book of Arkhan can be put on any character (The item with the bound VDM) and you don't NEED to mount a necromancer on a corpse cart.

I'll just need to continue to hunt for an alternative model for my vampire, all the standard ones are pretty hideous.

You can get a corpse cart without buying at as a mount for a necro. Speaking purely as an opponent of VC at low levels- it seems to me you should build some way of getting Van Hel's Danse into the list. Whether that be via Necromancer, lots of casting levels, or a Forbidden Lore vampire is up to you. The bound book provides another backup.

The corpse cart *does* have a bound level 3 ASF "bubble" it can cast. Obviously, there is some overlap there, but it could be useful. I believe many VC players take issue with the fact that it doesn't count towards core.

Right, so cram as much VDM as possible, gotcha.

Also, what's better for the Corpse Cart, Balefire or Lodestone?

If you are summoning, loadstone, if you are worried about magic, balefire.

Oh, another question I meant to ask. What's the best loadout for skellies? Spears or hand weapons? I was thinking hand weapons because they're meant to be cheap blocks of infantry, but spears are only a point each.

spears allow you to get an extra rank of attacks in at the cost of a little armor.

I personally run a Tomb Blade vamp with the main skellies to replace any that die in addition to summoning.

So spears are worth it? Right-o.

Tomb Blade sounds lovely, actually.

So, my current (hypothetical) loadout for a vampire is:

Vampire
Tomb Blade
Flayed Hauberk
Powers: Master of the Black Arts.

Comes to a total of 200 points. Bit steep, but an absolute beast. This sound like a decent loadout for a 1500 point game?

I would play it and find out.

Shields are best, the point of skeletons is to negate ranks while a good unit flanks the enemy to secure the victory in that combat. Also, feel free to fill up your 25% in lord and 25% in heros for a game. You can always raise dead especially if you use MSU with multiple vampires with Ghoulkin and raise dead.

What are you talking about ranks and flanking?

Skeletons exist as the mainstay core troop for vampires. Mainstay head on units don't negate ranks while flanking units kill them. Other way around, the flank negates in order for the parent unit to win, such as for Empire detachment tactics.

Survivability for a unit that you can replenish and buff is not as important as killing power. You can replace casualties, you can't replace lost attacks.

You should have more ranks in your skeletons than your enemy has. Then you hit their flank with 5 blood knights and drive them off.

Having more ranks does not NEGATE enemy ranks, they simply are a wash in resolution. Negating ranks means that they get a +0 bonus to CR while you maintain your rank bonus.

And flanking is less necessary in an unbreakable army, even more so in a skeleton unit where the Tomb Blade is present.

If you have 2 ranks and your enemy has 3 they will be steadfast and will test on thier unmodified leadership. If you have 4 ranks and they have 3, they will have to test on the modified leadership and will have a higher chance of running.

If you flank a unit it loses its combat bonus for ranks, so if they have 4 ranks they would not get the +3 for their rank bonus but would still test on their unmodified leadership if they have more ranks than your unit does.

THis is why you use skeleton warriors with HW/S as your Rank unit then you hit them in the side with blood knights or some other killy unit. It isnt that dificult. You should read the section in the BRB before you try to argue from an ill informed oppinion in a thread for beginners.


I would recommend that you read pages 52-54 of the hardcover rule book, that should help you understand combat, ps. the pictures will help explian what i am trying to say.

I've read the BRB and am aware of the steadfast rule. However you worded your statement in a way that suggests that a front facing unit negates ranks with no mention of steadfast.

Again, killing outright fairs better for units that can be replenished versus compromising killing power for a +1 armor save.

It may make sense for other armies, but VC can summon more, use a Tomb Blade etc to replace any models that would have been lost to that whopping +1 armor. No amount of summoning on that same unit can make up for lost attacks from a 3rd rank.

Yea, but if you are losing combats by 10 models you will lose the game, every point lost in combat=1 more dead guy, with VC you cant win games if you are always summining crappy core to try to replace your loses.

Because no battle has ever been won by attrition?

It would be one thing if there was the +1 save for hw/shield, but now it's a 6 ward. 5+ armor saves don't accomplish much, let alone needing a 5+ modified AND a 6+ to not die.

And who is losing 10 casualties only from a factor of +1 armor? If you lost 10 with no shield, you'll still lose 7 with them assuming that something S3 was hitting them. At S4 you'll likely still lose 8 or 9 of those 10, and at S5 no amount of crappy armor will help.

But no, while we're at it lets have orc boys sport shields instead of 2 hand weapons, for survivability, clearly...

No, the logic is that 8 pt. core skeletons are not worth it, the only point of them in to negate an enemies ranks so you can charge then in the flank or rear and drive them off. Plus, if you go with spears you are making the models even more expensive point wise. Lets say you are 5 wide, the extra 5 attacks will only earn you 1 wound, if you are lucky. On the other hand, a pary can save one of your guys and that model is 1 pt cheaper than the spear wielding one who cant do anything to help you.

I agree that wars of attrition can win battles, but that is not the logical thing to do in 8th WHFB. You need to take out an enemy unit a turn per combat if you want to succede, i am 46-1 with my VC, i know what i am talking about. Skeletons hold up the enemy when a real unit does the damage on the flank, it is simple logic. Do the math and you will see that shields are the way to go.

Shield Pros:
1) 5+ AS 6+ parry
2) Cheaper model

Spears Pro:
1) 1 more WS2 S3 attack
and that is it.

I am not saying that spears are usless, i am saying that they should never be seen by any VC skelleton warrior.