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Was reviewing the old Nid codex last night and wanted to inquire as to the potential usefullness of 3 "broods" of maxed spore mines deployed via the orbital barrage sub rule Nids have.
Obviously wouldnt work in every army setup as it eats heavily into your FA choices but might work in a Nidzilla/lumbering foot list?
Are they of any use? Area denial is obviously their strenght but en mass?

Once placed they act as individual units ... combined with they are removed if they drift into friendly units, means you don't want too many. 3 unit of 3 works best and would be a nasty way to block of a deployment area.

As for killing things ... they're not great.

They're only moderately useful in one specific mission (dawn of war) and only if you go first. For everything else they are completely without redeeming value. All it takes is one vehicle deployed next to them and they all explode bouncing off the front armor of the vehicle without doing any damage at all. They are a waste of ten points per model which can do you much more good elsewhere. Heck even two Termagants is more useful because it's two more wounds, no matter what mission.

SumYungGui wrote:They're only moderately useful in one specific mission (dawn of war) and only if you go first. For everything else they are completely without redeeming value. All it takes is one vehicle deployed next to them and they all explode bouncing off the front armor of the vehicle without doing any damage at all. They are a waste of ten points per model which can do you much more good elsewhere. Heck even two Termagants is more useful because it's two more wounds, no matter what mission.

... Spore mines DS after both sides have picked their deployment side but before any models are placed.

Its good in any mission.

Spore mines can be used to disrupt enemy deployment. The thing to remember is that they won't actually have much coverage: At most you can have three units of six models, so basically three large blast markers of space you can interdict. Remember that enemy models can't deploy within 1" of them and each 25mm base is ~1".

You want to interdict your opponent's deployment area to prevent them from optimally deploying their forces to blow your Tyranids to kingdom come with an alpha strike. Ideally you force some of your opponent's units into being set up in reserve, and more likely you're going to prevent them from being deployed where they don't have to move (and thus have optimized shooting).

Remember also what you're planning on Deep Striking and Outflanking: Encouraging your opponent to risk setting up near the edges of the board leverages any outflankers that will come in. Conversely, having random Spore Mines floating around makes Deep Striking extra hazardous.

After interdicting, it doesn't really matter what your spore mines do. If they cause any damage, you're ahead of the game. Your opponent is going to drive any vehicles that they have through the Spore Mines. And even against infantry they're not going to do much damage.

So as part of a strategy, take Spore Mines if you're planning on having most of your army start on the board and need something to disrupt your opponent's deployment so they can't just sit and shoot at you as you advance. Two units of five each is enough for any force, leaving a Fast Attack slot open for Gargoyles to provide cover.

Tri wrote:

SumYungGui wrote:They're only moderately useful in one specific mission (dawn of war) and only if you go first. For everything else they are completely without redeeming value. All it takes is one vehicle deployed next to them and they all explode bouncing off the front armor of the vehicle without doing any damage at all. They are a waste of ten points per model which can do you much more good elsewhere. Heck even two Termagants is more useful because it's two more wounds, no matter what mission.

... Spore mines DS after both sides have picked their deployment side but before any models are placed.

Its good in any mission.

How is that good in any mission? The only mission where this actually restricts what the opponent can do is in dawn of war. Anything else all they need to do is choose to deploy a vehicle right next to them and then totally ignore the ten points per model that you spent on them as they're going to bounce off the armor. They are ten points apiece. There's talk of spending upwards of a hundred or more points on spore mines that will literally accomplish nothing in the vast majority of deployment types. They will get placed, get a vehicle placed next to them and then completely ignored. For ten points apiece. Have I mentioned they're ten points apiece yet? Because they are, and that comes out of the points budget for your army. In sets of ten points per mine. I'd much rather have almost anything else a hundred points can buy than one possible advantage in one single scenario. Dawn of war, where the first turn of shooting is pretty much ignored anyway because of night fighting.

SumYungGui wrote:How is that good in any mission?

Easy I'll explain. Unlike every other type of unit Spore mines Deep strike, before any other models are placed. After they have been place the enemy cannot come within one inch of them. Now assume there's a nice ruin with good line of sight ... dumping a 30pts unit and calming force them to go else where or take a turn removing them.

Yeah you are basicluy bying time with them.

If you spend to mutch points on them your oponent wil shoot one and it wil blow up destroying everyone else. They are very good vs a foot list where they will shoot at them for one turn rather then running.

The best thing is to use them in an agresive nid list in an objective game. Have them hover around the objectives. Now he has to spend one turn shooting with his scoring unit before the objective is safe. Just make shure you atke out his transport first.

Also, if you have 2-3 of the once that launch spore mines you will soon flood the map with spore mines.

One last note, spore mines and genestealers is a bad mix, I have only had bad luck with that combo as my spore mines where used against me as minefields.

They can make it (literally!) impossible for your opponent to deploy in a certain area.

Combine them with outflanking genestealers to deter you opponent from the board edge.

Combine them with ymgarls to deter them away from terrain.

Combine them with biovores(!) to deter them from clumping units.

Combine them with hormagaunts to deter them from spreading out.

Remember that Tyranids can get bonuses to reserve rolls and play as much in reserves if they like.

Mix any or all of the above.

Spore mines can have a use.

Also, you can do utterly ridiculous things with them now in Apocalypse.

Just saying.

You guys keep shouting out justifications for this unit as if this stuff is not known. I get it, I understand everything you've said or are going to say about the potential of deep striking a unit of spore mines. I will grant that it's useful for wide area terrain denial only in dawn of war because of the 18" rule. That's not worth the points however. In response to this everyone's saying 'just put them on that ruin, or in that tree, they buy you time, you can control your opponent, they even wash the dishes and do the windows!' etc. etc.

The uses and benefits outlined here are not worth the points spent in an army list as those points can be used elsewhere for better effect.

I am not saying they do not have any use, at all, ever, forever and ever amen, I have said and continue to say they are not worth the points because their use is extremely limited and a very, very poor return on points.They deep strike. This is not a reliable method for surgical striking something that has a whopping one inch area denial bubble plus the size of however many bases you want to spend ten points apiece for.They will never damage any worthy opponent, and their point denial is meaningless while their area denial is mediocre and limited to one scenario.

This is not reliable enough to spend list points on, nor is it as effective as people want to believe. For ten points a model.

Spore mines had a very potent use back in the day, which was not point denial it was area denial. You used to be able to pick a point and just spit spore mines all over that general area to convince your opponent he probably didn't want to go that way and risk the damage. Those days are long, long gone. Now everybody gets vehicles that will very literally ignore any possible damage output of the spore mine model itself and you can no longer choose to shoot them at an area instead of a model. The Biovore itself has some potential, though limited, while the spore mines themselves are quite simply a very poor choice. Stop trying to drown me out by pointing out what they can possibly do when I am agreeing that it is POSSIBLE for them to do something, but extremely limited and unlikely which leads to what I am addressing. That being what they are worth for what you invest.

1/3 of scenarios are DoW.

And I think Kirsanths post is pretty good. You keep saying it's unlikely they will do something, but the stuff from Kirsanth is pointing out things you can do that don't look at possibilities but tactics.

Sure they are 10 pts of crud, but when you combine them with other things in your list they add something you can't get elsewhere.

SumYungGui wrote:You guys keep shouting out justifications for this unit as if this stuff is not known. I get it, I understand everything you've said or are going to say about the potential of deep striking a unit of spore mines. I will grant that it's useful for wide area terrain denial only in dawn of war because of the 18" rule. That's not worth the points however. In response to this everyone's saying 'just put them on that ruin, or in that tree, they buy you time, you can control your opponent, they even wash the dishes and do the windows!' etc. etc.

The uses and benefits outlined here are not worth the points spent in an army list as those points can be used elsewhere for better effect.

I am not saying they do not have any use, at all, ever, forever and ever amen, I have said and continue to say they are not worth the points because their use is extremely limited and a very, very poor return on points.They deep strike. This is not a reliable method for surgical striking something that has a whopping one inch area denial bubble plus the size of however many bases you want to spend ten points apiece for.They will never damage any worthy opponent, and their point denial is meaningless while their area denial is mediocre and limited to one scenario.

This is not reliable enough to spend list points on, nor is it as effective as people want to believe. For ten points a model.

Spore mines had a very potent use back in the day, which was not point denial it was area denial. You used to be able to pick a point and just spit spore mines all over that general area to convince your opponent he probably didn't want to go that way and risk the damage. Those days are long, long gone. Now everybody gets vehicles that will very literally ignore any possible damage output of the spore mine model itself and you can no longer choose to shoot them at an area instead of a model. The Biovore itself has some potential, though limited, while the spore mines themselves are quite simply a very poor choice. Stop trying to drown me out by pointing out what they can possibly do when I am agreeing that it is POSSIBLE for them to do something, but extremely limited and unlikely which leads to what I am addressing. That being what they are worth for what you invest.

They are an amped up choser of the slain.

They are hugely useful in both dawn of war and spearhead for disrupting enemy deployment. In pitched battle they strugle, unless its objective based. Then they can deploy on the side with the most objectives and deny a key piece of terrain in the enemy deployment zone.

They are even better at disrupting scout moves, especially in spearhead. A sporemine iin the enemy zone will disrupt units deployed within 12" of them. Ig vendettas are a prime example as they have a huge footprint to get 12" away from spore mines.

SumYungGui what I'm saying is that depending on you points level (1500-2000) 60-90pts won't be missed and the trouble they can cause is priceless.