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Hey guys,

first of all, I'm quite a newcomer, so some rule points might not be clear to me; I played fantasy like 10 years ago, and I'm starting again, with Imperial Guard. So, the list:

HQ - Company Command Squad (305pts)
- Creed
- Vox Caster
- Regimental Standard
- 2 flamers
- Carapace Armor
- Astropath
- Master of Ordinance
- Chimera

Elite 1 - Ratlings x5 (50pts)

Elite 2 - Psykers x5 (60pts)

Elite 3 - Marbo (65 pts)

Troops 1 - Platoon A (265pts)

- Platoon Command Squad
-- 4 flamers

- 3x infantry squads
- 2 with GL, 1 with flamer
- 1 autocannon, 1 mortar, 1 lascannon
- vox caster for each

Troops 2 - Platoon B (525pts)

- Platoon Command Squad
-- 4 meltagun
-- krak grenades
-- al rahem

- 5x infantry squads
- 2 with GL, 1 with flamer, 2 with plasma gun
- 1 autocannon, 2 heavy bolter, 2 missile launcher
- vox caster for everyone!

Troops 3 - Veterans (265pts)
- 3*meltagun
- vox caster
- carapace armour
- vendetta

Heavy - Leman Russ Executioner x2 (460)
- plasma cannon

Total: 1995
--------------------

Ok, so i should explain how I see this working

CCS: Stay in the back, use the standard to improve the snipers, and shoot/flame whatever comes its way
Try to stay still, so that MoO can blast. Astropath helps the rest of the army outflanking.
Creed gives the Scout ability to Leman Russ squadron (because tanks outflanking is cool)
Not really sure if Carapace armour is useful, or should be changed into more psykers/ratlings
Chimera cover them and psykers/ratlings

Psykers: Lower the morale of whatever they can, or blast

Ratlings: shoot at what psyker demoralized, to improve pinning

Marbo: well... just appear and Marboes whatever he finds, if possible in the backlines (like an isolated psykerish guy)

First platoon: stand in front of the HQ/elites, cover them while moving to objectives. Stay flexible

Second platoon: outflanks, thanks to Al Rahem. used to reach objectives or tanks faster

Veterans: outflanks in the valkyrie; the same than second platoon, but more focused on tanks

Leman Russ: outflank, thanks to Creed. Mindfuck the opponent and blast whatever they find

So yes, the goal is to mass-outflank helped by the astropath, because that's fun. And I like to have options during a game. Couldn't find the points to get another astropath

was thinking about splitting the Leman Russ squadron, so one is outflanking, the other comes normally. But still a tank squadron outflanking..

Oh, and about the infantry squads weapon! I know it would be more efficient to get something like "all flamers + mortars" in the first platoon, and "all meltagun + autocannon" in the second one, or at least get consistent weapons, so why?

It's absolutely not from rules thinking, it's just that for this army, I'm thinking about taking a different regiment for each squad (like first platoon is Cadians + Valhallans + Mordians, second is Vostroyans + Steel Legion + Death Korps + Catachans + Tallarn), because I can't bear painting 100 times the same model. First, based on fluff, they have preferred weapons, and second, each regiment box already comes with its preferred weapon (more or less), so it makes it easier for me. Anyway, I don't think it's a major point yet.

So, what do you think? Is it balanced? Any suggestion?

You won't need to outflank the leman russes, they should be on the table and blasting from the get-go. Shield them from close-tange weapons with your infantry.

Ratlings aren't great man. Any sniper unit is sort of boned if your opponent has fast or deepstriking/outflanking/infiltrating flamer or assault units, and they don't do anything to armour, don't have enough shots to kill many light infantry, and even against heavy infantry you're depending on rending rolls. I've stopped using snipers altogether with my eldar.

Psykers should either be a bigger squad in a chimera, or go home. As is, any army that feels threatened by them can probably wipe them off the board.

Marbo is good! Last game I faced IG, he appeared and wiped some fire dragons and their transport right off the table. 3 times his points value!

Reconsider your CCS - what is the plan for creed, who is he really helping. You can take 2 CCS and some extra goodies for less than a creed CCS. Outflanking alone is not worth it. (and as said isn't a great idea for tanks) Carapace is not needed when the squad is already protected by a chimera.

Platoons: every platoon should have 3 of the same weapon. Read the combined squads rule under the infantry squad entry in the codex (if you haven't already; sorry to sound patronising). That is the key to IG infantry. In almost every game, you will want to field infantry in groups of 20-40. Every group (not every 10-man squad) can have a vox-caster if you like. Every group should have a commissar. This stops them running away, without it they will probably flee the second anything assaults them!

Here is an alternate idea for your platoons:
PCS- 4 flamers - 50
3 Infantry squads - autocannons, grenade launchers - 195
vox, commissar (in one infantry squad) - 40

PCS- al'rahem, 4 meltaguns - 140 (?)
3 infantry squads - meltaguns, power weapons - 210
commissar (with power weapon), vox - 50


OK, so that is a fairly common setup. the first is a platoon for holding your own objective, and firing away. It takes orders well and won't run away if assaulted. (you should still protect it from assault against any serious unit, but it will outlast small squads and won't be destroyed by sweeping advance or such)
The second is an outflanking platoon. Al'rahem's whole platoon must outflank, so heavy weapons don't make much sense there. Meltaguns are best here because al'rahem has bring it down. power weapons are a good sort of trick under the current rules. Basically, the sergeants and commissar (who have the power weapons) will down a few models every turn, no matter how elite. Your opponent, unless it is a big ork mob or maybe a full unit of spacewolves, charging blood angels etc, will be stuck killing a few 5pt guardsmen a turn while you wear him down. This is a great unit for seizing ground against shooty armies, and for tying up and even destroying elite assault units.

Combined squads can be bigger or smaller of course, but I would try starting with 30-man groups and seeing how it goes. Fairly easy thing to reorganise after all. Heavy weapon squads are a good idea in a non-outflanking platoon. HBs are completely outclassed by autocannons, same cost but far less flexible. Mortars, as you may already know, suffer from lack of punch, as well as most enemies in the game being vehicles and/or space marines!

Melta veterans in vendettas are great units, carapace armour probably isn't worth it for what is still essentially a suicide squad. Try demolitions, or nothing at all.

Phew, lot of advice there. Hope it helps. IG are one of the best armies currently, but the infantry especially need to be configured just right to work well.

EDIT: read what you said about weapon choices. Dude, just convert something. I mean, there's no point only sticking to molded 1-piece metal models. The background doesn't say 'steel legion has no access to autocannons or meltaguns', it's just that the manufacturers never made any. Good weapon choices will bring you a lot more happiness in the long term than using the unconverted models!

Waow, lots of advice, thanks!

I actually already modified the list during the night, removed carapace armor from CCS and vets, downgraded an executioner to vanilla russ, gave chimeras to psykers and al rahem PCS, and added a commissar to first platoon PCS

Reconsider your CCS - what is the plan for creed, who is he really helping. You can take 2 CCS and some extra goodies for less than a creed CCS. Outflanking alone is not worth it. (and as said isn't a great idea for tanks) Carapace is not needed when the squad is already protected by a chimera.

Creed + russes are my main problem right now yes, because it's fairly expensive, and despite being cool (a plasma executioner, coming from behind a tree? just behind you? nobody would like it :p), maybe it's not worth the points

Creed + Russes executioners = 550 points.. I could take 3 vanilla russes and some commissars; thing is executioner is reaaally good at close range

Platoons: every platoon should have 3 of the same weapon. Read the combined squads rule under the infantry squad entry in the codex (if you haven't already; sorry to sound patronising). That is the key to IG infantry. In almost every game, you will want to field infantry in groups of 20-40.

Well... I have to admit I didn't read that point :p I read most other units rules, but since this one was the basic stuff of the basic, I didn't think they would have special rules.. Blobbing seems good, I'll probably do it. What are the advantages/disadvantages? I understand that I need only 1 vox per blob, and only one commissar; disadvantages, I suppose they can take only one objective, and if they fail a test as a whole, you're screwed

I don't really know about the commissars, they seem pretty expensive for what they do, for 35 points I can get more psykers, or something else

EDIT: read what you said about weapon choices. Dude, just convert something. I mean, there's no point only sticking to molded 1-piece metal models. The background doesn't say 'steel legion has no access to autocannons or meltaguns', it's just that the manufacturers never made any. Good weapon choices will bring you a lot more happiness in the long term than using the unconverted models!

Actually, the fluff explain that each regiment has its favored weapons, like catachans using Heavy Bolters and flamers because it's cool in the jungle. But yeah, you're right, I don't think they'll be "Shut up, Mr. Commissar! I want to use HB and flamers, and I'll do it!" :p And it might be fun to convert them, already got ideas

I have one question about GL, what are they useful for? I know that (more or less) melta are against mechs, flamers against infantry, plasma are more or less useless (in this edition anyway), but what about GL?

Ok, pretty good for your first list, I must say! I second most of what bounty hunt up there has to say, but I might as well toss on my own advice to your list.

HQ

As bounty hunt said, Creed is expensive, but he has big pay offs...however, he only has big pay offs in the right type of army which you unfortunately are not running. Tactical Genius is awesome, as its meme status shows, however it's not awesome with units like Leman Russes that need to be firing every turn they can to be worth their points. To be honest, Creed's real value isn't Tactical Genius, or even his special order. His value is his 4 orders a turn with a 24" range. He can give you squads of twin linking autocannons, missile launchers, lascannons etc. etc. The army tht benefirts most from him is firing line guard...the ones who stand there and open fire, and need his orders so that their HWTs can mow down the opposition, or power blob guard where he keeps the heavy weapons firing while the blob squads advance. Frankly, you're not running the type of list that benefits enough from Creed to make him worth his salt. Also, carapace armor is not a necessity, especially when you're in a Chimera already. I would frankly say to not buy carapace armor in general. There's too much AP4 weaponary out there for it to be much use, and its points could undoubtedly be used for something better.

Master of Ordnance and Astropath are both good. In 2000 points games you should be facing enough enemies to make the MoO inaccuracy not too bad a problem, and the Astropath ensures you get your outflankers early, and where you want them. Finally, I'd recommend you drop the flamers....especially if you're building the kind of squad that's made to give orders. The squad shouldn't be close enough to the enemy to have to use flamers...i recommend you drop them. If you are going to take SW on a CCS, I recommend something like melta or plasma guns. CCSs are some of the cheapest BS4 models you'll get in an IG army. Use that BS4 well.

Elites
Ratlings are a nice addition to the Imperial Guard, but I like to keep them small. They're there to harass and annoy, not to be fighters. They shouldn't be taking up too many of your points, and should be the first ones you consider dropping (or just reducing in size) when you need to wring some points out of your list.

Psykers are a nice add on to the IG in this edition, and combined with the Ratlings, you've got a nice trick there. Using Weaken Resolve on an important squad, and hopefully inflicting one wound with the Ratlings could mean you have enemy squads pinned all over the place, which will be great for you...anything to keep enemy HTH specialists away from your line.

Marbo is awesome, and a nice choice to any army. He is Chuck Norriss crossed with Ahnuld, and he will serve you well. And he gives you awesome stories....bount hunt gave you his, and I have to tell about this one time Marbo obliterated 5 Blood Angels terminators with his det pack....ahhh, good times. Good times.

Troops
Now, here is where I have the biggest problem with your list. Your first platoon is nice, but I have to say, 2 grenade launchers and a flamer aren't that good a combo. I would say go with 3 flamers, or just try to maximize the number of lasguns you have. A lasgun may onlby be S3, but you will amazed with dozens of guardsmen firing 3 shots with FRFSRF will do. I also say you should blob them up, and only buy one vox. Remember, 10 T3 models is not a lot to worry about, and they will be killed off fairly easily. 30 T3 models on the other hand will be fairly hard to shoot off any objective, and if you buy a Commissar for them (which you should) they will be tough to assault off of them either.

However, I have to worry about your HWTs.....I'm assume that's what the 1 autocannon, 1 mortar and 1 lascannon is right? Well if it's a HW then definitely do not do that. Fill each hwt based on type. I could see auotocanon + ML hwt. ML + Lascannon Hwt, and autocannon + heavy bolter weapons teams, just because each combination has a shared target, but the other types of weapons make it a BIT more flexible. However, if those heavy weapons are in squads, then I'd still say don't buy one of each like that. As was said, you should be blobbing up, and once there you should try and focus on one weapon. My personal recommendation is either autocannons or missile launchers for HW in blob squads. Not to mention....if you blob up 3 infantry squads, each with HW, and then order BiD, you can get a very nasty shooting atack against the lightyly armored transports that dominate 5th ed 40k.

Now, your second platoons uffers from a few of the same problems...namely, you're outfitting a flanking assault squad with both assault AND heavy weapons. You don't want to do that. You should concentrate your heavy weapons in squads that will remain stationary, and your assault weapons in the moving squads like your 2nd Platoon here. Once again, you want to blob up, and you want a Commissar so they don't run away. You would also want this platoon to be a power blob (potentially with a priest to allow rerolls to hit in HTH). Guard may not seem like the best CC army, but trust me.....5 PW sergeants, with a PW Commissar, rerolling to hit? You've 24 power weapon attacks on the charge right there, not counting the 90 regular close combat attacks you'll be getting. MEQs just can not stand up to that n umber of attacks. Even terminator swill roll ones some of the time, and you can make them roll enough dice that they WILL be rolling ones.

The Veterans sweem good to me. Melta in a Vendetta is a classic anti tank weapon for the Guard. However, don't bother with the carapace. They're going to die anywya, it's not worth it to try adn keep them alive.

Heavy Support

Ahh the plasma hose. Good choice. Marines will hate you, and you can put out enough firepower to bring down the nastiest MC.

Tactics
So, as far as tactics go, you seem to have gotten it down for a kind of Mech+Infantry horde Guard, you've got one platoon to hold objectives on your side, one to take the opponents, all good so far. Your Ratling + Psyker combo will be powerful at keeping the enemy in place for you. However, you should remember that snipers can't shoot that far. THeir range is 36 inches, so they'll need to get closer than you'd want your CCS to be to the enemy's guns. I also advise against squadroning your tanks, or outflanking them. Leman Russes need to be shooting as much they can, and squadroning weaken their best strength: staying power. If you roll an immobilize against a Leman Russ it's not that bad, as you can just keep firing. However, if you squadron then you sacriice some of your staying power....when you've got plenty of slots left, don't worry about squadroning up.

And yeah, don't worry that they do't have the right models for you in each model range...though do in bear in mind. Only Catachans and Cadians come in plastic, metal is expensive plus its hell to work with and the forge world models will look out of porportion compared to everything else.

Overall, this is apretty good list for your first time, and I applaud you on a job well done.

ChrisWWII also gives the right advice. Regarding the troops thing: commissars are good because they cannot be killed unless you are looking at a wound for every model in the squad from a single enemy unit. So essentially, for as long as the unit is around, it will be taking leadership tests on LD9 with a re-roll. Which is really, really close to certain (if any guard unit does run away, you should try the CCS' get back in the fight order).

Blobbing squads is a no-brainer in a killpoint mission of course. Obviously if you have only 2 minimum platoons as your troops, then you would be stretched for objectives in one of the missions. But even then you have 2 big next-to-unbreakable squads and 2 tiny special weapon squads (the PCS). You can then take some HWS, or a 3rd platoon or what have you. A 30-man commissar squad can string out and take 2 objectives at once - 10 man squads have a tendency to run away or be wiped out one by one.

This is something I've thought about a lot - the attractive things in any 40k army are the big blast guns and the psykers and the elite assault units. But victory often comes from having something your opponent just can't deal with. And if you have enough blobbed-up guardsmen, your opponent better have brought plenty of flamers, or he ain't getting through them all!

Well, to answer your question, that I didn't see posted thanks to eating dinner while I was posting, I may have some asnwers for you. bounty hunt took care of the pros and cons of blob squads so I won't go into that.

But Commissars are vital. As was said, they're an upgrade so they can't be sniped out of a squad, unless the squad is already doomed. THey raise the leadership of the squad to 9, and make it stubborn. So, usually for every wound you lose close combat by you'd take a minus one to leadership...here you don't. So you suddenly change Guardsmen from Ld 8 and will no doubt run away from CC to Ld 9, and will stay unless things go completely to hell. If you're running blob guard, that is much more vital than a couple extra Ratlings or psykers.

Plasma is actually quite good in certain situations. Melta is only one shot, so it's good against tanks, but even though it's AP1, it's not good at thinning out infantry. Plasma on the other hand is rapid fire, so it can put out the shots to thin heavily armored infantry quite easily. Plasma does have its place, but it's a fairly unique place, best suited for taking down marines out of their vehicle, and monstrous creatures if need be. Plasma vet squads are actually rather useful.

On the other hand, grenade launchers aren't really that good. They don'e have AP3, so Marines still get their armor save, and S6 isn't really enough to be a threat to most vehicles. The frag mode is also not really that good....I personally don't like grenade launchers too much. I ran them for a while, but they just never panned out for me. I prefer either a vox, flamer, melta bombs, or something else.

Ok, I understand better now
the list looks like that :

HQ1 - CCS (217)
- Commander: Boltgun+powerfist
- vox
- melta x3
- astropath
- MoO
- Chimera

Elite1 - Ratlings x5 (50)

Elite2 - Psyker x10 (165)
- chimera

Elite3 - Marbo! (65)

Troops1 - PlatoonA

PCS (65)
- 4 flamers
- vox
- power weapon

Infantry x3 (275) --> bobbled in 30
- vox
- GL x3
- power weapon x3
- commissar + power weapon

Troops2 - PlatoonB

PCS (145)
- melta x4
- vox
- al rahem

Infantry x5 (450) --> bobbled in 30+20
- vox x2
- melta x5
- power weapon x5
- commissar + power weapon x2

Troops3 - Vets (235)
- vox
- melta x3
- shotguns
- vendetta

Heavy 1 - Vanilla Russ (165)
- lascannon

Heavy 2 - Vanilla Russ (165)
- lascannon

Total: 1997

I reduced number of ratlings, but had 20 leftover points at the end, so... they're back

I may consider plasma for the PCS, or for some unit, might be better. But I think the choice of SW will come with experience, like the choice of Russes weapons.

I quite like it this way, it seems quite coherent.

Another question, still about the commissars, and then I should be ready to go glue and paint

Is it a good idea to give PW to infantry squads sergeants, considering that they will most likely be killed by the commissar?

Yeah it is a good idea to give power weapons to the sergeants. Hopefully they won't get their heads blown off, thanks to Leadership 9, but the way a power blob works is to try and squeeze as man power weapons in with as many ablative wounds as possible. So yes, while it's a problem, it's a problem we powerblob players just have to learn to deal with.

Of course a few prayers to the Emperor on each morale check never hurt.

I quite like this current list of yours, seems quite powerful. You've got 80 Guardsmen on the table, and they've got lots of fire support...I think that this could easily be a very powerful army. Good luck with it!

Yeah, looking good. Don't see the point of the powerfist or the advisors in the CCS though. MoO is very inaccurate and requires staying stationary, so that doesn't go very well with meltas and a chimera.

You are limited to 3 voxes and a special weapon in command squads - no soldier can have a special weapon as well as a vox.

I have to say I didn't catch that. Agreed, pick a direction for your CCS. Meltas and Chimera make for a good up close anf personal fighting squad, but vox and advisors make for a better orders squad. I personally would say avoid the vox and Master of Ordnance. You don't have the kind of stationary firing line that desperately needs orders. Definitely keep the Astropath though.

I will point out though, that if you DID have a stationary firing line, the Master of Ordnance would be useful Sure he's not that accurate, but at 2000 points? Your bound to hit SOMETHING, and let's not forget...he's a Basilisk shot for 30 points. You can't argue with that.

I have to admit that I don't really know what to do with the CCS yet

they are quite important guys, so I'd prefer not to send them too much to the front, but at the same time they won't be useful if they stay at the end

MoO is ok, as you say, for 30pts he can send a nice blast, and if it comes to worst he still can take a wound instead of someone else

As for the vox.. I read it again, I totally misunderstood it For some reason, I thought voxed units benefited of other voxed units Ld, something like that

Anyway, it's five points (per unit), and if it helps keeping everyone together, then it's better for the way I play (I'm more used to chess actually, so I'm not used to some unit not understanding what you ask her to do :p). But it takes a SW slot in the PCS, so... will think about it, as for most things, I think it needs testing

fixed my mistake for the number of SW in the PCS anyway, thanks for pointing it out

Maybe the CCS will go for the plasma gun.. but I'm quite afraid of the "Gets Hot!" stuff; something that might help, what is the actual range of a flamer? I know it uses a template, but how long is the template? 12"?

and thanks for the advice and encouragements

Plus, with BiD, a MoO has a roughly 20% chance to hit what you shot at. Given that he's S9 ordnance, he actually makes a pretty decent vehicle killer.

Basically, you're spending +50% the points of a lascannon for something that's -66% as accurate as the lascannon in the CCS, but it's more likely to do damage and can still hit targets (including splatting a lot of infantry, unlike the lascannon) even when it misses.

and a lascannon takes up two veterans, so two less SW slots

I think advisors are really good addition, except the Officer of the fleet which is a little bit worse than the other two