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Is it a good idea to have a list containing some mech vets and a blob or two? I was thinking that the vets would advance while the blobs provided fire support. Would it work?

That particular combination would probably be bad.

I could imagine a blob-centered army with a armored cavalry wing. The infantry march forward with a small armored spearhead of plasma vets crashing in on one side as support.

The only other combination I could see would be to take a lot of mechvets with the cheapest blob you can field on to hold an objective, but it would be neither as cool nor as effective as the other way.

Yes, dismounted blobs can provide fire supporting to advancing mechvets quite nicely. However, as you note, I try to keep the supporting firebase blobs relatively cheap.

Since the new ´dex and 5th Edition, I sometimes run two 36-trooper blob platoons (1 is AC-GL´at 285 points the other is LC-GL at 325 points), 2 mechvet squads, and 2 mech CCS squads (with various and sundry supporting elements such as vendies, LRBTs, etc.). Both mounted and dismounted elements generally camp in my DZ and shoot during the opening phase and then I run the 4 mounted elements forward during the mid-game phase. This works quite well for me (well, I win half the time at least).

I encourage you to try hybrid dismounted platoons in support of advancing vets and CCS´. Although I also recommend you work up to all-mounted lists and all dismounted lists. The IG can do well with all three play styles and all 3 are a blast.


Tallarn Commander

Tallarn Commander wrote: However, as you note, I try to keep the supporting firebase blobs relatively cheap.

Right, because this is the problem with the OP's idea. Bringing a 30-dude blob with some autocannons is spending 215 points for three autocannons. That's a pretty wretched points sink, even if you do have a slow-grinder parked on an objective.

Tallarn Commander wrote:I sometimes run two 36-trooper blob platoons

?

How?

They come in groups of 10 with up to 1 commissar per group. How do you get 36?

If you want a hybrid list try running mech vets with an Al'Rahim power blob + Al with 4 meltas in a chimera. The threat of the outflankers can often drive the enemy off the outskirts of the table allowing you to funnel them into the steel jaws of the mech vets + heavy support.

I think it is a strong option to run a primarily Mech core/army with a decent size blob included. The blob works as your lynchpin in 2 objective games (letting the rest of your army move more freely) and is very good protection from deepstriking meltas and such (deploy them so that they sit between your vehicles and the other side of the table, right in the space your opponent wants to land, so they make a buffer zone and deny the opposing player that space to drop).

Of course in games where the threat from deepstriking/podding stuff like that is relevant, you could also just deploy your vets/CCS/PBS to make the buffer as well.

Ailaros wrote:

Tallarn Commander wrote: However, as you note, I try to keep the supporting firebase blobs relatively cheap.

Right, because this is the problem with the OP's idea. Bringing a 30-dude blob with some autocannons is spending 215 points for three autocannons. That's a pretty wretched points sink, even if you do have a slow-grinder parked on an objective.

Tallarn Commander wrote:I sometimes run two 36-trooper blob platoons

?

How?

They come in groups of 10 with up to 1 commissar per group. How do you get 36?

Maybe he uses lots of priests?

At 2k I've been toying with running 3 melta vets, 2 plasma vets (and a plasma CCS) all mounted. With two 20 man blobs providing screening versus assaulty armies. I'm not quite sure I like it yet...but it is surprising durable.

Ailaros wrote:

Tallarn Commander wrote: However, as you note, I try to keep the supporting firebase blobs relatively cheap.

Right, because this is the problem with the OP's idea. Bringing a 30-dude blob with some autocannons is spending 215 points for three autocannons. That's a pretty wretched points sink, even if you do have a slow-grinder parked on an objective.

Tallarn Commander wrote:I sometimes run two 36-trooper blob platoons

?

How?

They come in groups of 10 with up to 1 commissar per group. How do you get 36?

Perhaps he means the PCS, though that can't form part of the actual blob.

I'm trying to build up the body count for an Infantry blob to go along with a mechanized list I am running.

The blob's primary duty is going to be objective sitting as well as bubble wrapping some of the tanks I have also decided to take.

I think a full load of mechanised units, and 1 platoon would work well. Use the PCS as a chimera unit and keep 20-40 men as a blob with commissar, to hold objectives.

I run both Vets and Platoons. The difference between mine and other peoples is that my PIS are GLAC equipped but also sit in Chimeras. This adds two additional heavy weapons to the squad, makes them impervious to any gun that is less than S6, and also allows them to fire their weapons to full effect out of the top hatch.

It's really rather nice, though quite expensive £-wise for all those tanks.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I run both Vets and Platoons. The difference between mine and other peoples is that my PIS are GLAC equipped but also sit in Chimeras. This adds two additional heavy weapons to the squad, makes them impervious to any gun that is less than S6, and also allows them to fire their weapons to full effect out of the top hatch.

It's really rather nice, though quite expensive £-wise for all those tanks.

L. Wrex

+1 to this because it makes a Chimera a threat from long range plus a good objective sitter considering you've got a lot of AV 12 threats on the table.

Though hybrids are still viable like what other people do.

yeah, but a chimera with a multilaser and a platoon inside with GLAC costs 120 points just to put 3 S6 and 2 S7 shots downrange. That's pretty pathetic, especially when you consider that 5 more points buys you a basilisk, which puts down 3 S6 and one mother of all splatcannon attack downrange.

Yeah, they score, but you can get other things that score for cheaper, and outfitting your squads properly does not prevent them from being scoring units.

Don't waste points on junk, I say.

I play a basically mechanized army with a 3-squad blob tacked on (no heavies, just meltaguns). It works really well for me as a combined-arms force, with the tanks doing most of the killing and the infantry protecting the tanks from assault.

Also I like having the platoon for the 3+ heavy weapon squads it lets me add to my overall firepower and target saturation.

But I don't use valks/vendettas, so that frees up a lot of points for other kinds of options compared with most guard armies.

Ailaros wrote:yeah, but a chimera with a multilaser and a platoon inside with GLAC costs 120 points just to put 3 S6 and 2 S7 shots downrange. That's pretty pathetic, especially when you consider that 5 more points buys you a basilisk, which puts down 3 S6 and one mother of all splatcannon attack downrange.

Yeah, they score, but you can get other things that score for cheaper, and outfitting your squads properly does not prevent them from being scoring units.

Don't waste points on junk, I say.

And I say stop comparing totally different units. One is an open-topped, artillery piece used to bombard heavy armour from range. Its destructive, yet vulnerable to return fire. The other is not-open topped, can fire a 2 S7 shots and a S6 shot at one target and 3 S6 along with 3 S5 shots at another, oh and is also scoring. One suffers massively from a single weapon destroyed result, and the other merely shrugs and asks you to pick your poison. One sits in the Heavy Support section, which is heavily contested by a vast array of very good choices, and the other is a Troops choice with teeth.

Totally incomparable. It's like saying a standard Ork Boy is rubbish because for 34 more points I can have a Meganob. Totally different unit, totally different role on the battlefield.

And what do you mean outfit your squads 'properly'? Giving them all lascannon/plasma gun is very expensive, and its already been routinely and irrevocably proven via player reaction and mathhammer that for the points cost, on a BS3 guardsman, that isn't going to be part of a power blob, the autocannon is a superior weapon. Let's not have this debate again.

L. Wrex

/\ Totally agree with L. Wrex on this.

it is a viable option, depending on points. in an objective game, just put a power blob on an objective and make them come to you to take it. at 2000 points, i run two vet squads in chimeras (melta/plasma) and an infantry platoon (pcs/ 30 man squad/ commissar to the pcs and squad/ hvy weapon team or two).

In my Hybrid list, I actually use CCS to be special weapons platforms instead of Vets. CCS with 4x Plasma can take out a lot of units that would give blobs a hard time, and are cheaper than Vets. Plus, orders and you don't have to worry about losing a scoring unit with them.

So, assuming you have enough scoring units and don't have your HQs otherwise occupied, that's what I'd suggest.

I also like to push Stormtroopers on people, because of their flexibility. They have a lot of plusses, but again they're not troops. If you desperately need more troops as well as more special weapons, I think Vets are plausible.

I'll also throw in that I don't think blobs are good at fire support. There are plenty of other, cheaper ways to get long range weapons into an IG list. I've elaborated many times about not putting special or heavy weapons into blobs, and I stick by that so far. (I do have a test list trying to prove myself wrong, but haven't played it yet) If you're going to combine blobs and vets, it would be the vets providing support for the blobs, and taking out or weakening things that would cause problems.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:And I say stop comparing totally different units.

But they're not. Both units are vehicles that sit in the backfield and apply firepower. Their unit type and purpose are the same, even if the specifics are different.

The only thing that really differentiates the two is that the vets score, but vets still keep their ability to score when you give them good weapons.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:And what do you mean outfit your squads 'properly'? Giving them all lascannon/plasma gun is very expensive, and its already been routinely and irrevocably proven via player reaction and mathhammer that for the points cost, on a BS3 guardsman, that isn't going to be part of a power blob, the autocannon is a superior weapon. Let's not have this debate again.

Given that the arguments for GLAC squads are that "it's popular" and "I don't know what efficiency means", there really isn't a debate to be had.

Vets can take a serious amount of BS4 weapons which are S8 and/or ignore Sv3. The damage potential is the only thing that vets have going for them. If you're going to take a 10-man squad that isn't going to do much damage, you might as well take penal legionnaires...

ElCheezus wrote:I'll also throw in that I don't think blobs are good at fire support. There are plenty of other, cheaper ways to get long range weapons into an IG list. I've elaborated many times about not putting special or heavy weapons into blobs, and I stick by that so far.

Yes, but you can make special weapon blobs work.

I mean, a 30-dude power blob charging into a tac squad kills about 4 marines on the charge while a 30-dude plasma blob kills 5 out of cover and 2.5 when they're in cover, all for the same cost. Power blobs may be better against units that get cover saves, and may be slightly more durable, but plasma blobs can also effectively engage monstrous creatures and hurt light vehicles more easily.

Ailaros wrote:But they're not. Both units are vehicles that sit in the backfield and apply firepower. Their unit type and purpose are the same, even if the specifics are different.

The only thing that really differentiates the two is that the vets score, but vets still keep their ability to score when you give them good weapons.

Given that the arguments for GLAC squads are that "it's popular" and "I don't know what efficiency means", there really isn't a debate to be had.

Vets can take a serious amount of BS4 weapons which are S8 and/or ignore Sv3. The damage potential is the only thing that vets have going for them. If you're going to take a 10-man squad that isn't going to do much damage, you might as well take penal legionnaires...

And seeing as we're not discussing Vets but PIS in Chimeras, I really have no idea what point you are trying to make.

@ The bit I bolded; my only response is

L. Wrex