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Hey all. As a Chaos Marine player, I'm a bit dissatisfied with our selection of Chaos psychic powers. Seeing as psychic powers come from the Warp itself, and us Chaos Marines are literally suffused with the essence of said Warp, why aren't our Chaos powers the most destructive? Please note that I did not say best, I said destructive. It fits with the fluff to have chaos powers that are flashier and quite a bit deadlier than the poor little Doombolt, which in my opinion hasn't aged very well. I'm okay with the other powers, for the most part, I just feel like we should have a few abilities along the lines of Living Lightning, which quite frankly just puts our offensive powers to shame.

So, what would you suggest as a psychic power?

I personally would like something along the lines of a very expensive variable strength (d6 or something similar) large/small blast with a decent range to it. Fluffwise it'd be easy enough to characterize.

Let's say this for an experimental rule:

Cost: A Sorcerer may take Immolate for 40 pts.
Immolate
The Sorcerer channels the raw power of the Warp into a massive conflagration of pure screaming warpfire, attempting to sear the flesh from the bones of his enemies. However, the powers of the warp are unpredictable...

Immolate may be used in the model's Shooting phasee instead of using another ranged weapon. A Psychic test must be passed in order to use the power. When used, Warpfire counts as a weapon with the following profile (roll to hit and wound as normal):

Range: 24" Strength: d6 AP: 3 Assault 1 Large Blast

Thoughts?

Looks good !

BUT!!! I Loathe anything with a D6 Characteristic... Looks good on the Whole, but perhaps make it so everyone in the unit must pass a Toughness test? with AP 3?

To show that the Weak just get burned to Cinders and the Strong sorta shrug it off or burn?

Like it.

Perhaps too powerful, taking Vortex of Doom or Bolt of Change as a reference. Actually it is far more powerful that anything else. It is 25 pts vs 40 pts, however, so it can be an expensive alternative.

Sounds good for a Tzeentch class-A sorceror.

I will agree that it is very powerful, but I tried to balance that with the random factor (which is very chaos-like) and the pretty damn steep point cost. For the price of this one power you could take a couple weaker ones, even. If needed, I could bump the price to 45 or even 50, but I do feel like that would be a bit too crippling to an HQ that usually only costs about 170 points fully-loaded anyway.

EDIT: Just had a thought. To better simulate the random nature of Chaos, I could include a rule that would cause the blast to scatter the full distance every time, rather than subtracting the BS from the distance. That would both hinder its effectiveness if you consider it too powerful, and be incredibly fluffy! Thoughts?


SECOND EDIT: As for the Toughness test idea, I feel like that would make it quite a bit too powerful. It's already got potential to wreck any large squad of infantry's day, and maybe a vehicles rear armor if you're insanely lucky. (Although I would never rely on it as an anti-tank weapon).

Perhaps the better question is this: who would ever choose this over Winds of Chaos?

shealyr wrote:Perhaps the better question is this: who would ever choose this over Winds of Chaos?

Those of us who want to blow stuff up with our minds?

Over distances?

Winds of Chaos is nice, don't get me wrong, but the two psychic attacks are radically different. I can think of many scenarios in which I'd rather throw my luck in with my Warpfire rule than the constant 4+ wounding ability of Winds of Chaos.

Sure, there's always the possibility that you'll roll a two for strength and end up needing to roll 6s in order to wound basic infantry, but there's an equal possibility to roll a six and end up slaughtering most of a squad. Warpfire is for the kind of player who doesn't mind leaving a bit up to chance, as Chaos is meant to be portrayed.

Plus, the distance is a huge factor. Template vs. 24" large blast is a big difference, particularly when the model firing it off can be very mobile with the addition of a set of wings. When you fire off the Winds of Chaos, you KNOW you're going to have to kill what you're shooting at or end up getting charged. Warpfire will allow players to actually play a Sorcerer who can continuously blast foes from a respectable distance with potentially-horrifying results.

Those of us who want to blow stuff up with our minds?

Over distances?

This guy knows what I mean.

Agreed.
Blow stuff up with the mind from 24¨ is fantastic.

The scatter bit sounds interesting too.

I think you should change the name, as isnt Warpfire the pink Horror's power?

Ey, that´s true.

Ha, my bad.

Odds are changing the name's going to be the hardest part.

I think Immolate would be decent, if a bit unoriginal.

or maybe
Blast of Tzeentch,
Warpbolt,
Curseflame.
3 more options.

Warp Sunder?

Chaotic Implosion?

The Possibilities are ENDLESS

Warp Blast?
Dammnation of the Warp?

I'm trying to steer myself away from Tzeentch-based names because I want this to be an undivided power (I'm tired of Tzeentch having all the good powers, regardless of how much of a master of sorcery he's meant to be...)

I think Warp Blast is the name of a Zoanthrope power, otherwise I would have gone for that already. I like the general feel of Curseflame... Also Warp Sunder.

Oooh if only I could get away with Warpstorm... But obviously that's a phrase already coined for the storms in the Immaterium.

Why not a power that isn't a ranged weapon?

Seems okay. Make it d6+3 strength, and it's better.

You don't think d6+3 would make it too powerful? I feel like it would make it quite a bit too strong, personally.

And a power that's not a ranged weapon... What would you suggest, Nurglitch? I'd like this thread to also be about other people's psychic power suggestions.

Shelegelah wrote:
And a power that's not a ranged weapon... What would you suggest, Nurglitch? I'd like this thread to also be about other people's psychic power suggestions.

Self-propaganda time!!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/344446.page

Most of the psychic powers proposed there (12) are not ranged weapons. I was searching for original ways to use the Warp.
Yes they are poorly written and unbalanced. One can not excel at everything!.

Shelegelah:

The obvious candidates are the psychic equivalents of Daemonic Gifts:

The Glamour of Slaanesh (as Changeling's Daemonic Gift)
The Tally of Nurgle (as Epidemius's Daemonic Gift)
The Oracle of Tzeentch (as Fateweaver's Daemonic Gift)

The next is an Undivided psychic power to summon Daemons in addition to whatever came in from reserves. Either 2D6 Lesser Daemons, or the sacred number (6 Daemonettes, 7 Plaguebearers, etc).

Shelegelah wrote:Winds of Chaos is nice, don't get me wrong, but the two psychic attacks are radically different. I can think of many scenarios in which I'd rather throw my luck in with my Warpfire rule than the constant 4+ wounding ability of Winds of Chaos.

I use both Warptime and Wind of Chaos on my Prince. Warptime actually lets you re-roll ALL rolls to hit and ALL rolls to wound. Think about that.

Also, I would never take this power. Yeah, it's fluffy, but far from competitive. Maybe the Strength could be d6+2?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that maybe our current powers should be slightly buffed before we think about adding more.

Like:

Lash: Have some sort of chance of actually killing dudes. And tossing tanks around?

Nurgle's Rot: Should have some high AP characteristic, maybe 5...

eh?

OK, let´s do it.

Proposed psychic powers, not count-as-ranged-weapons.

I: All.
1: The Willing Sacrifice.
Fluff: a squad of anointed warriors give their lives for the gods.
Game: When declaring an assault, the player can select a single unit within 6¨ of the psyker (he can select himself or the unit he is attached to). If the Psychic Test is passed, this unit will get +2 Strength and +2 Attacks during the assault phase, instead of the normal assault bonus. The unit is destroyed and the models retired as casualties at the end of the phase, but their wounds do not count regarding who won the combat.
Proposed Cost: 20 Pts.

2: A Passage Through the Dark
Fluff: deep strike –teleport.
Game: the psyker may use this power instead of moving. If the Psychic Test is passed, the pysker will appear in another point of the battlefield, following the Rule Deep Strike. If he is alone he does not scatter. If he is attached to a unit, roll for scattering.
Proposed Cost: 15 Pts.

3: The Chosen One.
Fluff: a single model is truly blessed by the gods for a short period of time.
Game: you can use this power at the beginning of any turn. Select a single model within 6¨ of the psyker, which may be the psyker itself. During this turn, the model will neither die nor be retired as a casualty, no matter what happens to him. If his wounds are reduced to 0, just ignore the last attack. The effect will cease immediately is the psyker is retired as a casualty.
Proposed Cost: 45 Pts.

4: Contemptuous Armor.
Fluff: this is much needed. Protect yourself.
Game: you can use this power at the beginning of any turn. Any enemy psyker within 6¨ of the psyker are stripped of their skills. Any psyker that takes a psychic test must take the test on 3D6 and will suffer a Perils of the Warp attack on the roll of any double 1 or double 6.
Proposed Cost: 10 Pts.

II: Nurgle Only.
1: Regenerate.
Fluff: gain the regenerate skill.
Game: instead of moving, a nurgle psyker can heal himself. If the Psychic Test is passed, the psyker recover all lost wounds.
Proposed Cost: 10 Pts.

2: Tally of Nurgle.
Fluff: Epidemius - equivalent daemonic gift.
Game: copy-paste from Epidemius.
Proposed Cost: ?

III: Slaanesh Only.
1: She Who Thirst.
Fluff: taken from Soul Devourer – Chaos Demons.
Game: you can use this power at the beginning of any turn. During the rest of the turn, if a model suffers any unsaved wounds from the psyker (both in ranged and close combat attacks), it must immediately take a Leadership for each wound suffered (on its own Leadership´s value, the model can not use another model´s Ld for this test). If any of these tests are failed, the victim suffers instant death.
Proposed Cost: 15 Pts.

2: ?

IV: Tzeenth Only:
1: Friend or Foe.
Fluff: Changeling – equivalent Daemonic Gift.
Game: Copy paste from the Changeling.
Proposed Cost: 10 Pts. Cheap, but Ld is very high everywhere.

2: The Oracle.
Fluff: fateweaver – equivalent Daemonic Gift.
Game: Copy paste from the Fateweaver.
Proposed Cost: ?

V: Word Bearers Only.
1: Guide My Hand. Copy paste from Eldar´s Guide. There is a good fluff reference in “Dark Disciple”
Fluff: you can use this power at the beginning of your own´s shooting phase. The effect lasts until the end of the turn. Select a friendly unit within 12¨ of the psyker (may include him). If the Psychic Test is passed, the gods guide their hand when firing ranged weapons. Any failed roll to hit can be rerolled during the rest of the turn.
Proposed Cost: 20 Pts.

2: The Blessing.
Fluff: the gods protect the Word Bearers of any attack. Copy paste from Eldar´s Fortune.
Game: you can use this power at the beginning of the enemy´s movement phase. The effect lasts until the end of the turn. Select a friendly unit within 12¨ of the psyker (may include him). If the Psychic Test is passed, the gods take care of their most valuable followers. Any failed roll to save can be rerolled during the rest of the turn.
Proposed Cost: 30 Pts.

VI: Night Lords Only:
1: Shroud of Darkness:
Fluff: light fade out around the psyker.
Game: you can use this power at the beginning of the enemy´s movement phase. The effect lasts until the end of the turn. If the Psychic Test is passed, the psyker create a shroud of darkness around him and the unit he is attached to. Any enemy unit trying to fire at this unit will first need to make a check to see if the firers can clearly spot their target through the darkness, as in the Night Rule (Page 95 Rulebook).
Proposed Cost: 20 Pts.

2: Screaming Memories:
Fluff: screaming souls taken from a “Screaming Gallery”-equivalent surround the psyker.
Game: you can use this power at the beginning of the turn. The effect lasts until the end of the turn. If the Psychic Test is passed, any enemy unit within 6¨ of the psyker will suffer a -3 Leadership modifier during the turn.
Proposed Cost: 25 Pts.

VII: Iron Warriors only.
1: Keep Serving.
Fluff: techmarine ability equivalent.
Game: copy paste from the techmarine.
Proposed Cost: 15 Pts.

2: Clenched Fist.
Fluff: no retreat, no surrender.
Game: Gain Fearless during the rest of the turn.
Proposed Cost: 10 Pts.

I would like to see Chaos powers be tempting as well as destructive. Say Doom bolt with +2 shots for every plus you take on the roll for success. Of course what doom bolt is 3 S5 shots - so taking a +3 on the roll makes it into a 9 shot killer albeit a roll of 9+ means you are suffering perils of the warp. Or say bolt of change with +1 S per + on the roll so S10 AP 1 with +2 on the roll or now perils on a mere roll of 10+.

In addition to make sorcerers more appealing, I would like to see them (not DP) get a warp conduit power that causes all enemy psykers to suffer a perils test on any double roll. Not able to shut down psychic abilities ala a psychic hood or rune staff but instead indirectly killing psychers who dare to call on the warp in the presence of a chaos sorcerer.

I like the idea of the Chaos Powers being more powerful the more risk you put into them, that's simiilar to the magic style in Fantasy battle, isn't it? (It's been years, so I can't quite remember)

And I REALLY like that list of proposed powers, da001. I wasn't such a big fan of the ones that were copies of other codexes (codices?), but there were a large amount of poweres that were pretty damn original in there. I especially like the Nurgle one about healing itself.

@Shelegelah
Thanks. But I must say that most of them are copy-pastes. Regeneration is from Tyranids (just like Contemptuous Armor). It is difficult to create something truly original. And it is nigh impossible to make it balanced.

I agree with DAaddict: something is needed to make the sorcerers more interesting. All you see out there are DPs.

Snip

Nurglitch wrote:Shelegelah:

The obvious candidates are the psychic equivalents of Daemonic Gifts:

The Glamour of Slaanesh (as Changeling's Daemonic Gift)

/snip

Sorry to but in with this, but just thought i'd point out that the Changeling is a servant of Tzeentch, not Slannesh.

Back OT, i like the power. What you could do, is make it sorcerers only, and not DP's. Then you'd have a dilemma as to take them or princes.

Yeah, the Changeling is a servant of Tzeentch. Fits a Slaanesh power better though, being a glamour.

DAaddict wrote:I would like to see Chaos powers be tempting as well as destructive. Say Doom bolt with +2 shots for every plus you take on the roll for success. Of course what doom bolt is 3 S5 shots - so taking a +3 on the roll makes it into a 9 shot killer albeit a roll of 9+ means you are suffering perils of the warp. Or say bolt of change with +1 S per + on the roll so S10 AP 1 with +2 on the roll or now perils on a mere roll of 10+.

In addition to make sorcerers more appealing, I would like to see them (not DP) get a warp conduit power that causes all enemy psykers to suffer a perils test on any double roll. Not able to shut down psychic abilities ala a psychic hood or rune staff but instead indirectly killing psychers who dare to call on the warp in the presence of a chaos sorcerer.

+1 to this. I've always thought this sort of thing would be a great way to improve Ahriman, but it really makes sense for all sorcerers in general. I'm mean the power of chaos sorcery is all about high risk, high reward. If we allow sorcerers to use powered up versions of existing spells then we avoid copying the powers of the other factions.
You could allow players to elect to take on various handicaps to their psyhcic tests such as increasing the probability of perils, penalties to their leadership (or both). The more extreme the handicap, the more powerful the spell becomes if you should succeed.

I'm going to agree with you on that one. I think it's a fantastic idea as well. I tried to capture that 'high risk, high reward' essence in my proposed power. The fact that I made it a ranged shooting attack is, admittedly, due to at least a little bit of unoriginality on my part, but I believe it's a unique effect for the most part. I also made it a ranged attack in order to give us one that's actually viable. Doombolt and Bolt of Change are pretty lackluster, and Winds of Chaos (while very nice) just isn't how I imagine my sorcerer blowing crap up with his mind. I imagine undivided Chaos powers to be all about raw power and unpredictability.

Also, I believe it was mentioned that Warptime is often used in conjuction with Winds of Chaos, making it a superior power. You could easily do the same thing to my Immolate power, with even more dramatic effects, seeing as you could potentially re-roll the scatter die, seeing as it's the 'to hit' portion of the roll. (I'm sure that could be argued on some level, but that is how I would personally play it.) The tactical options are again multiplied, while still remaining a very fluffy aspect of randomness, which is what I would love to see in Chaos again.