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Whenever I look at a Predator with Autocannon, I am stunned over how bad the size comparison between the Barrel and an IG squad / Leman Russ Exterminator is.
I know, vehicle weapons are supposed to be more massive than infantry weapons, but for me, the current autocannon ruleset doesn't do the model any justice.

When looking back to older editions (..), vehicle mounted weapons were more powerful than Infantry weapons anyway. Today, it's rather the opposite ( 2 shot Cyclone Launcher?? Seriously??? And my Dreadnought does'nt even get twin-linked?? The Hell...)


So, my thoughts: Predator is a "medium" tank, it can't compete w/ Leman Russ weapon qualities in any case. Therefore, a Conqueror cannon would be the absolut max. Upgrade.

But I would like to make it long barreled anyhow...


I know that 72-inch long-barreled weapon range does not match with the close-range heavy bolter sponsons - but on the Leman Russ Standard, it's the same.

Leave it as is. The predator is a light tank, it doesn't need a super-weapon. An upgrade to twin-linked is the most I would say is appropriate. Or a plasma cannon or other squad heavy weapon or twin-linked heavy weapon.

I could see slightly more range and maybe TL. It doesn't need any more strength.

Melissia wrote:Leave it as is. The predator is a light tank,

Well, in my opinion, it's not. According to FW, the Predator weighs in at around 44 tons. Light Tanks are more like IG Salamander Scout, or Infantry Fighting Vehicles like a Razorback or Chimera. About Hellhounds I'm not sure though..
In comparison to a FW Chimera w/ Autocannon turret, the classic Dakkapred has "just" an additional heavy Bolter and some armour plates slapped on. But the Chimera has enough space for 12 infantry guys + fire ports en masse.
If the Predator would sport transport capacity (6) like a razorback (or falcon), I'd be happy with the basic autocannon.
(Not for the Blood Angels though, their increased speed is enough already, despite points)

In Rogue Trader, Autocannons were really just tank cannons, and the Battle Cannon was an upgraded Autocannon.

I'd say make the Autocannon R48" Str8 AP4 Blast, Twin-Linked (Oh yeah, Autocannons also used to be Str8. )

Just call it a Predator Autocannon

Well, in my opinion, it's not. According to FW, the Predator weighs in at around 44 tons. Light Tanks are more like IG Salamander Scout, or Infantry Fighting Vehicles like a Razorback or Chimera. About Hellhounds I'm not sure though..

Everything you listed off was not a tank. They were all APCs or Scout Vehicles.

grayspark wrote:

Well, in my opinion, it's not. According to FW, the Predator weighs in at around 44 tons. Light Tanks are more like IG Salamander Scout, or Infantry Fighting Vehicles like a Razorback or Chimera. About Hellhounds I'm not sure though..

Everything you listed off was not a tank. They were all APCs or Scout Vehicles.

Erm.. Less APC then IFV, though Lexicanum does not divide between this.
True APC would be Rhino, IFV would be Chimera, Razorback, Repressor, Land Raider to some extend, Falcons & Waveserpents, Devilfishs.....


It's not only about the inadequacies of a Predator without any additional wargear / sponsons, it's also about the model.

motorhead1945 wrote:

grayspark wrote:

Well, in my opinion, it's not. According to FW, the Predator weighs in at around 44 tons. Light Tanks are more like IG Salamander Scout, or Infantry Fighting Vehicles like a Razorback or Chimera. About Hellhounds I'm not sure though..

Everything you listed off was not a tank. They were all APCs or Scout Vehicles.

Erm.. Less APC then IFV, though Lexicanum does not divide between this.
True APC would be Rhino, IFV would be Chimera, Razorback, Repressor, Land Raider to some extend, Falcons & Waveserpents, Devilfishs.....


It's not only about the inadequacies of a Predator without any additional wargear / sponsons, it's also about the model.

So you're saying a Bradley IFV is a tank?

Sure the American armed forces give it missiles, cannons, machineguns, and the such, but that doesn't suddenly turn it into a tank.

the Predator is a light tank. it is used as a fast reaction vehicle during a Space Marine campaign.

the Landraider, by comparason, is a heavy tank that also performs some IFV duties.

the Lemun Russ is a MBT(main battle tank)



i do agree that the Predator could use some heavier armament(at least TL of the Auto-cannon)

the Predator's main problem is that whatever it does, something in the Space Marine armory does better, if not nessacerly cheaper. a Predator destructor is really cheap for what you get, but thats it's only strength. they are pretty easy to kill/make irrelevent due to their large side arc. they could really use a increase in side armor(same for Vindicators)

Machine Spirit would be cool too(for Annhilator pattern anyway)

The Exterminator is twin-linked, right? Just give it an Exterminator Autocannon without the twin-link. If you need an anti-tank gun on your Main Battle Tank (see Codex: Space Marines) go for twin-linked Lascannons.

I don't really understand what you mean. I don't think size has anything to do with how the weapon works. Leave it as-is.

motorhead1945 wrote:

Melissia wrote:Leave it as is. The predator is a light tank,

Well, in my opinion, it's not. According to FW, the Predator weighs in at around 44 tons. Light Tanks are more like IG Salamander Scout, or Infantry Fighting Vehicles like a Razorback or Chimera. About Hellhounds I'm not sure though..

The salamander scout isn't a tank, because it's open topped and has no turret-- it's just a scout vehicle with treads and just enough armor to let it survive most small arms fire. The Razorback and Chimera are Infantry Fighting Vehicles, which are APCs with guns used to support the infantry within. None of them are tanks. One could even make the argument that the Vindicator and Land Raider aren't tanks either, because of their lack of a turret and the latter's transport ability. The Vindicator is more of an assault gun, while the Land Raider is a heavy IFV (or perhaps superheavy depending on how you want to classify it). The whirlwind would probably be closest to the calliope mobile artillery, only without the turret.

The hellhound is basically a Chimera chassis adopted into a flame tank role-- it, of the ones you mentioned, is definitively a tank, having a proper turret, no transport ability, and so on to qualify it as a tank.

Of course, by GW's definition, they're all tanks.

Tank is a fairly loosely defined word.

"A tank is a tracked, armoured fighting vehicle designed for front-line combat which combines operational mobility and tactical offensive and defensive capabilities. Firepower is normally provided by a large-calibre main gun in a rotating turret and secondary machine guns, while heavy armour and all-terrain mobility provide protection for the tank and its crew, allowing it to perform all primary tasks of the armoured troops on the battlefield" -Wikipedia

the bolded part is what most people would call a tank. the Italicised part is what blows that shabang.

by the first line, just about any vehicle with Treds would count.


Tank can be called a general term. IFV, APC, and MBT are sub-terms under Tank, which has come to be associated with MBTs.

Regardless, the Predator is definitely a light tank. The LRBT is the Imperium's main battle tank. The Predator is used for quick strikes, which are a Marine's specialty anyway.

The Marines don't rely on heavy firepower like that. That is what the Vindicator is for: massive over-the-top shots. The Predator is a light tank. The only upgrade I'd see would be giving it the Power of the Machine Spirit like the Black Templars can give it. Now that it a cool upgrade!

To be honest, I've always thought the predator and vindicator were a little out of place in the space marine codex. They seem too static and campy, which doesn't really reflect the space marine stereotype of quick, effective strikes. Unless they were hanging around protecting something, I see little use for a gun tote like the predator. The vindicator is even stranger, although fits the niche of breacher well.

Anyway, I'd say the predator is a tank,just because it's been modified to serve as a weapons platform, rather than a transport

The PotMS upgrade would suit the Marine tendency towards mobility nicely.

Melissia wrote:The PotMS upgrade would suit the Marine tendency towards mobility nicely.

How about like a +30pt upgrade to a Predator to represent that the Space Marines use it for quick strike.

Gyro-Scoped Turret / Mobile Strike Vehicle - 30 Points

For shooting purposes, the Predator counts as a Fast Vehicle.

Any of you who has been in the army will be familier with the Scimitar's main weapon, this i feel is on par with the Predetors main gun (not same power but same fire rate etc.) Now when the rounds from the scimitars main gun hit light targets or even the ground it would send shrapnel everywhere, so based on this i feel the Pred main gun should be at least Heavy 1 Blast str7, but the current design is better game wise, but not realistic lol realism

Surely if you want extra punch for you Pred. you just take the option and chuck a TL Lascannon on it?

The autocannon - in SM context - is an outdated weapon system whose only redeeming feature is it is a cheap vehicle. Assault cannons rends, heavy bolter is better ROF it just plain sucks other than being cheap to make a dakka pred. The problem is as long as you consider it an autocannon you have to concern yourself with CSM autocannons and reapers and IG HW teams. If I had to chose, I would like to see it changed to 1 shot S7AP4 blast template and perhaps given the ordinance pen rule. But it lives in its place and is fine.

In-game the Destructor is fine;

with Heavy Bolters it's great, cheap anti-infantry and with Lascannons it's a great vehicle hunter for a very good price. The Destructor is a great method of providing some extra armour saturation and firepower, it's a very good tank. Ask any competitive SM player.

Making it TL or allowing to fire more whilst moving (akin to a Ravager) would both be reasonable suggestions and I would at least support the latter.
However, atm the Predator is fine and doesn't really need upgrading IMHO.

Yeah, it's cheap and effective, and pairs 'OK-ish' with the sponson options.