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Shryke- 195

Chaplain w/ Combi melta and JP- 130

Scouts- 105
-4 Scouts w/ CC
-1 Scout Sgt w/ P fist and combi-melta

Scouts- 105
-4 Scouts w/ CC
-1 Scout Sgt w/ P fist and combi-melta

Scouts- 105
-4 Scouts w/ CC
-1 Scout Sgt w/ P fist and combi-melta

Sternguard- 370
-7 SG w/ combi-meltas
-2 SG w/ meltas
-1 sgt w/ Pfist and combi-melta
Drop Pod

Assault Squad- 245
-7 Marines w/ CCW
-2 Marines w/ CC and P Pistols
-Sgt w/ P fist

Assault Squad- 245
-7 Marines w/ CCW
-2 Marines w/ CC and P Pistols
-Sgt w/ P fist

Termi Assault Squad- 200

Landraider Redeemer w/ Multi-melta- 250

Total- 1990 <----- STILL 10 POINTS LEFT OVER!

The main goal of the lsit is first turn assault. So, to start Sicarrius lets me re-roll the attempt to seize the initiative, which has proven invaluable several test games, surprisingly. Next, Shryke infiltrates with the VGs, the scouts infil, the LRR with Termis sits as far forward as possible and one of the tacts squads infiltrate. The LSS sit on the edge of the deployment zone as well, and then scout moves. The LSS rush forward to get in MM range and pop some tanks early, well the CC get within range to charge any exposed infantry.

I've revamped this list plenty over the last few test games and I really wanted some thoughts.

I run Shrike lists decently similar to this. I like your idea of Sic but he's just too expensive especially when you're taking 2 death stars you have nothing to support them. Shrike also only confers infil to one squad his USR is fleet so the tacs infiltrating while awesome isn't possible if he goes with vets.

My 2000 in my current 1000, 1500, 1850, 2000 escalation league, revising but it's set for this league at least and took 2nd at my last FLGS tourney.

2000 Pts - Space Marines Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2000

HQ: Shadow Captain Kayvaan Shrike, 195

HQ: 1 Chaplain Cassius, 125 pts

Troops: Scout Squad - 5x, Snipers, CC - 90

Troops: Scout Squad x5, Snipers, CC - 90

Fast Attack: 1 Vanguard Veteran Squad x7, TH, LC/SS x6, MB x4 - 420

Elite: Terminator Assault Squad x6, TH/SS x4

Elite: Terminator Squad x8, AC - 390
1 Land Raider Crusader, MM - 260

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad Plasma Cannon x4 - 190


So basically Shrike Infiltrates with Cassius and the ATerm unit. LRC forward with the vanilla termies in it moving where it needs to. Depending on list playing scouts start on board or in reserve to outflank obj's after the deathstars clear what they can. I outfitted the vets with 4 MB and the TH to heroic intervention behind static tank lines, IG manticors, SM Preds etc. Or to come in on my table edge vs fast mech lists, to assist my scouts in scoring. My lower point lists look a lot different but you can maximize potential with shrike and fleet at 2000 You just have to make sure as many of your units as possible carry CC AT so they can truly hit anything.

So for your list as copying mine wouldn't be fun, drop Sic add a chaplain with a jump for re-rolls on hits, HUGE HUGE HUGE on hitting vehicles that move with MB's. Can also add a Librarian either vanilla or in TDA with SS, null and might/avenger to wreak havoc in turn 1 on. Either way with the points saved from Sic give the sergeant 2 LC or a TH as the other SS are enough to allocate with. Drop the SB on the LRC. If you don't go 1st outflank the 10 man scout squad rest is same, you'll be ok. If you do scout move them and assault turn 1 as normal. A LasPlas Razorbacks would add another magnet I'd even drop your 2nd Tac squad add the razor for the first and another 2 ccw scout squads, riding in the storms with combi-meltas/mb for static gun popping would be ace.

So in a jist, Sic out, Lib or Chap in. 1 tac out add a razor in be your obj sitter. 2 5 man ccw scouts with combi-melta mb sergeants riding in the storms. MB's on the vang vets! With leftover points outfit accordingly.

YFI: Posting individual costs are against forum rules.

As for the OP list.
The Vangaurd Vets are horrible overcosted and not worth their pts. They die just as easily as tactical marines to massed fire but costs close to two times as much as a Assault Termie.

Why cloaks on CC scouts and why not two squads of five. You really want the fist srage in each squad imo.

SB on a LR is a complete waste of 10pts

A HF is better than the MM on the LSS, BS 3 one shot weapons on a AV 10 is simply bad.

tedurur wrote:YFI: Posting individual costs are against forum rules.

As for the OP list.
The Vangaurd Vets are horrible overcosted and not worth their pts. They die just as easily as tactical marines to massed fire but costs close to two times as much as a Assault Termie.

Why cloaks on CC scouts and why not two squads of five. You really want the fist srage in each squad imo.

SB on a LR is a complete waste of 10pts

A HF is better than the MM on the LSS, BS 3 one shot weapons on a AV 10 is simply bad.

Fixed the individual points blame army builder and my laziness. Vets are not worthless at all they're that point cost for being one of the most versatile units possible they take a ton of finesse though which is why I intervention them now vs with Shrike. I agree on the HF in most cases but besides the PotMS MM on the LRC he has basically no AT which is almost auto-lose at 2000 vs any mech list.

BTW, the Tact squads infiltrate from Sicarius' special rule.

-LRR doesn't have an SB, I was thinking of my old list when I typed it. Fixed.
-Scouts have cloaks for after the initial assault, if they need to hold objectives, etc.

I'll look at the list and edit taking your guys advice into account. Thanks guys, updaed list soon!

With this kind of list I'd rather have two squads of Assault Marines (armed with a Pfist and two flamers) than 7 Vanguard Veterans. I would drop Sicarius and the Tacs altogether: if you're planning on first turn assaults, ou should use CCW scouts with Powerfists (and maybe mix in some sniper scouts for objective-sitting). Now with points freed up, think about your support units. After charging and killing some units turn 1, everyone that charged will almost always die to return fire. Add something else to the list that will prove a threat to them and will split the enem's fire. Drop podded Ironclads and normal Dreads are good a this, and the're also good at surviving. An Autolas Pred can pop tanks from a distance that are too tough for your initial assaulters. A twin Autocannon dread can also help with transport popping, making it easier to deal with the contents of said transports.

Also, why not consider Land Speeder Typhoons?

atsuno11 wrote:Shryke- 195

Siccarius- 200

Scout Squad- 205
-P Fist and Combi-Melta
-9x CC
-Cloaks

Tact Squad- 185

Tact Squad- 185
-ML/Melta
-Combi-Melta

Termi Assault Squad- 200

Vanguard- 470
-7 Vets w/ SS/LC
-JPs

Land Speeder Storm w/ MM- 60

Land Speeder Storm w/ MM- 60

Landraider w/ Multi-melta- 250

Total- 2000

If your looking for fluff and not effectiveness please disregard these suggestions.

* Drop your LR. Use the points to increase your termies to 10 strong. Infiltrate them with shrike. Its enough to send your opponent into renal failure. He will HAVE to deal with them at the expense if ignoring the rest of your army.

* Your vanguard are Waaaaaaay to expensive. You could deep strike another 10 TH/SS for cheaper. Your opponent will already be suffering from renal failure from the 10 fleeting, infiltrating termies coming down his throat, when another 10 show up, he might also have a stroke.

* Drop your cloaks on the scouts, thier a waste. Your job is to assault with them.

* The real weapon in your scouts is the PF. Use multiple scout squads for that purpose, so you can give each one a fist. If your wanting to use the speed of the storm, field 3 of them.

* Your list is a great assault list, but lacks anti-transport. How will you deal with a ork KoS army? If you have a few long range weapons to crack those transports, the game becomes much easier for you. Anti-trasnport weapons are good vs. AV 10, 11 and (to a lesser extent) 12. Those are best found through preds, dreads, and tyhpoons.

* Drop your tacs. Your going with scouts for the speed. Thier just cluttering up your list with units that could actually be effective.

* Drop Sicarius. Sure hes tough and all, but you need those points elsewhere. If anything add a librarian to the infiltrating, fleeting terminators for Null Zone.

* Hell, if you drop those TACs and Sicarius you will have enough points to add a 3rd squad of fleeting TH/SS terminators to the unit. You have already sent someone into renal failure and given them a stroke, so why not add a heart attack to the mix?

I am trying to lean more towards the Raven Guard theme, but I did take some of your guys suggestions to heart.

-Dropped Sicarius for a Jump chappy with combi-melta
- VG became two Assault Squads
- Split the scouts into three five man squads with P fists and combi-melta
-Dropped tacts and added sternguard

I feel this lets me have the RG feel I want, well still being competitive.

Updated lsit posted.

Thank you all! And continue to comment!

2000 points of Raven Guardness..

What IS raven guard?

Shrike gives every unit fleet, and his own unit Infiltrate.

Fleet scouts? why would you want fleet units that have BS and WS of 3...

Mech.....doesn't benefit from fleet so try to keep mech on low side.

Tactical Squads.....ummm yeah they can move, run and then assault, but really need transports and that kind of means drop pods.

Assault Squads. This is where the action lies.

Vanguard squads: Too expensive.


How I would try a Shrike list:

HQ

Shrike
195

Librarian
Null Zone & Force Dome
Jump Pack
125


Command Squad (5 man)
x 4 Melta Guns
Space Marine Bikes
245


TROOPS

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Powerfist & Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
DT: Drop Pod w/ locator beacon
255

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Powerfist & Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
DT: Drop Pod
245

Tactical Squad (10 man)
Powerfist & Combi-Melta
Melta Gun
DT: Drop Pod
245

FAST ATTACK

Assault Squad (10 man)
Powerfist & Storm Shield
x 2 Flamers
250

Assault Squad (10 man)
Powerfist & Storm Shield
x 2 Flamers
250

Bike Squad (5 man)
x 3 Bikes, x 1 Attack Bike
Attack Bike: Multi-Melta
x 2 Melta Guns
Powerfist
185


1995

Everything has fleet. 2 melta squads of bikes, 2 assault squads (one being able to infiltrate) 3 tac squads drop podding close to enemy with meltas...

Tactical squads do not in anyway shape or form gel with Shrike in competitiveness or fluffyness so yea on that. Anyway I take storms now as 4 games ended in draws and one loss due to my sniper scouts always getting killed, resulted in 2 wins with the switch to storms. Ccw scout squads are incredibly awesome with fleet especially if you go first, 18" infil, 12 in DoW possibly, 6" scout move you're now able to be in assault with anything on the board with a PF at normal marine statline, score? Vets are not too expensive they consistently perform for me I have dropped them for a 3rd or 2nd ATerm unit depending on points and the extra 6" movement is so big in corralling and containing the board. That list also has no ATerm's whatsoever fleeting terminators is like almost the whole point of Shrike.

Fleet assault terminators are nice. but how are you going to get them to the battle?

A land raider is a big fat target for every melta gun in your enemy's arsenal.
Deep Striking means they have to stand there and take punishment.
Plus the fact that the ultra strong combo of TH/SS is NOT a good setup for a fleet terminator. Moving, running then asaulting, you want to get your strikes in first, not last.

But if you go lightning claws you only have a 5+ inv save against whatever is going to be thrown at you.

Assault terminators are a really nice idea, but fleet benefits assault squads so much better.

Depending on points I run them at 5/3 on 8 and 6/4 on 10 man squads TH/SS to LC ratios and they go with Shrike and infiltrate. They are meant to be a fire magnet so the rest of your army can do whatever the hell it wants for a turn. Assault squads are just much too squishy they're usually one and done and if you infiltrate one with Shrike thats basically a death sentence, one maybe to assist your scoring unit by coming on from your board edge reserve is enough. Bikes/Speeders for your melta razors/preds/rifle dreads for light mech and assault termies/vanguard for your anti inf is basically the FOC for Shrike. Razors are the only reason to take tacs, Sternguard are utilitarian and fit in just about any vanilla force if you want them and what you need. I've played close to 30 games as RG now and tried just about every list, 3x10 assaults, 3x10 Termies etc.

and what's worked best for you?

My recent 2000 point list, as in earlier today. Actually beat Deldar in an obj game, I danced and gloated FYI.

Shrike - 195

Librarian in TDA with SS, Null + Might - 140

Scouts x5, Combi-melta - 85
LS Storm, MM - 65

Scouts x5, Combi-flamer - 85
LS Storm, HF - 65

Techmarine - 50

ATerminators x10, TH/SS x6, LC x4 - 400

Dreadnought, ACx2 - 125

Vanguard Vets x7, TH, LC/SS x6, MB x3 - 415

Predator, AC LCx2 - 120

Predator, AC LCx2 - 120

Predator, AC LCx2 - 120

That's my really shooty list that does not take a whole lot of adv of fleet besides forcing you to focus on that infiltrated squad. The 3x 10 ATerm list is really, really mean but also incredibly boring yet is probably hands down the most effective force, throw in some preds for shooting and loaded storms to score and call it a day. I cannot stress how well storms performed in the 3 games I used them in today, 2 wins and a tie I should not have gotten. I'm totally torn between Cassius and a Librarian as to their effectiveness in the deathstar.

You know what? I'd change that list to Vulkan and take advantage of all those weapons getting twin-linked or master crafted. It's not getting fleet really anyway, so you're not losing much.

Corennus wrote:Fleet assault terminators are nice. but how are you going to get them to the battle?

A land raider is a big fat target for every melta gun in your enemy's arsenal.
Deep Striking means they have to stand there and take punishment.
Plus the fact that the ultra strong combo of TH/SS is NOT a good setup for a fleet terminator. Moving, running then asaulting, you want to get your strikes in first, not last.

But if you go lightning claws you only have a 5+ inv save against whatever is going to be thrown at you.

Assault terminators are a really nice idea, but fleet benefits assault squads so much better.

The area of influence of a fleeting unit is 13" - 18". Since the first group can infiltrate, they will be just over 18" away from the enemy.

Yes, deep striking means you have to take the punishment -- thats what the TH/SS are for. Remember you can also run after you DS, so your terminators don't have to say clumped up waiting for battlecannons. If your using scouts, you can also utilize teleporter homer to ensure they do not deviate from their target. Given their 13" - 18" area of influence, they will be in assault the turn after they deepstrike.

I don't understand why being fleeting means you want to strike first. Why does that change from assaulting form a LR? If you want to mix up a few LC termies for the TH/SS termies, thats not a bad idea at all -- but the TH/SS are there to absorb the LC hits the unit will be getting for the one turn they are out of assault.

Assault squads also benifit from fleeting -- there is no doubt. Their effective range goes to 19" - 24". Their just more fragile and don't hit as hard in assault. A mix would be a good well balanced list.

My friend runs a shrike deepstrike list, and its very competitive. He utilizes one scout squad to camp an objective -- their job is to go to ground when shot at. He brings 2 sternguard squads he pods in. He pods in 1 tac squad. He infiltrates 8 terminators with shrike (6 TH/SS 2 LC). He has a few units on his back line for support -- such as typhoon speeders. Its a tough list for my bike army. He usually stomps IG players.
What makes his list work so well is that you have to focus your attention on the terminators. While you are shooting those up, he is free to play the rest of his game. His sternguard with combi-meltas will pop heavy armor, his anti-transport are not shot at, etc..

So...drop the LRR for 5 more A Termies?

Also, side note: Tact squads are fluffy for any codex space marine army. They're the mainstay of the force XD Competivness, I really dunno XD

Just noticed that my two assault squads are not in the editted list... Fixed. Sorry if that caused confusion for people.