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So my buddy has a solid ork army and he is really really good at playing with them. He takes 3 battlewagons in his list which is really killing me (that 14 front armor). So I've tried many things and from which I have created this list to beat him. Tell me what y'all think. An extreme amount of thought (and tears on the battle field) went in to this list so everything has a purpose if anyone wants me to say why I picked a particular unit.

HQ:
Marneus Calgar - 250 pts.

TROOPS:
2 x 10 man Tac Squads w/Flamer and Lascannon - 360 pts
1 x 10 man Tac Squad w/Flamer and Lascannon - 180 pts (Transport attached)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT:
Razorback w/ TL Lascannon - 75 pts

ELITES:
2 x Dreadnought w/Heavy Flamer & TL Lascannon - 290 pts
Techmarine w/4 Servitors - 105 pts

HEAVY SUPPORT:
1 x 5 man Devastator Squad w/4 Missile Launchers - 150 pts
Predator w/ TL Lascannon and SS Lascannons - 165 pts.
Brother Sergeant Chronus (attached to Pred) - 70 pts
Vindicator - 115 pts

Grand total of 1760 Pts.

Anyway the plan is to hide everything behind the 3 tac squads and Calgar. This lets me shoot the hell out of him with 4 missile launchers, 4 TL Lascannons, 5 regular lascannons and a demolisher cannon. Also Calgar drops an Orbital Bombardment. Then when he finally assulats me and wipes out a tac squad the Dreads can flame the left over orks. Techmarine and Servitors (which automatically repair anything with the +4 from the servitors) sit back with the vehicles and repair as we go to keep them in the action. Chronus lets 2 Lascanons and a TL lascannon hit on 2+ and keeps that Pred going on crew shaken and crew stunned. So anyway what does everyone think?

if the point limit is 2000 then you still have space for marneus' honour guard plus i would switch the techmarine for a full squad of termies with an autocannon to deal with any boyz that arent hidden in the battlewagons

pbkeeney17 wrote: So anyway what does everyone think?

Here are my thoughts

Don't Try to Out-Wrestle the Bear
You can use one CC squad to deliver what you need when you need it, but trying to out assault him will prove to be an exercise in futility. Focus on what your good at, which is shooting.

Oddly enough TH/SS termies are not all that awesome vs orks. Sure they wound on a 2+ and give no armor saves, but thats not so great when their crunching a 6 point ork. Its easy to get overwhelmed by orks in that way.


Piss him Off
If that ork player has been kicking your ass, and you want to turn the tables, field 3 land raider redeemers. Put a TAC squad in 1, and then the other 2 can carry sternguard with 5 combi-flamers. Use the MM / AC on the LRs to destroy his vehicles, then pop out and flame his unit out of existence.
Use a sqaud of scouts or 5 TAQ marines to camp an objective on your side of the board.

That will piss the Ork player off -- I need to warn you. Orks have no melta guns, so their only defense against AV14 tanks is to use a PK. If your moving over 6" then he hits you on a 6, which really lowers the chances of that happening. Its a sad day for the ork player. If you keep playing that list, he will stop wanting to play you.

If your local FLGS allows him to use deffrollas on vehicles, then those can damage your LRs. Read up on the discussion on that in YMDC. Most stores rules that you cannot.


A More Well Rounded Approach
TL AC dreads are the best tool in the marines toolkit to take down truuks. Use those to pop his truuks on the other side of the board and watch him footslog it to you.

For BWs you have 1 of two options. The first are the suicide speeders. You rush up land speeders or MM attack bikes and hope to crack the BW before being overrun. This is a valid tactic and works great -- and is better with Vulcan.

The other option is to use typhoons to take down the side armor of BWs. AV14 is awesome on the front, but it drops to 12 on the sides, which is much more manageable by krak missiles.

In a sentence;
All your AT is Longranged, your AI is short ranged, against orks, you'll want this the other way around.

Send in 2 trow-away squads of 5 marines with Melta/Combi melta (or 3 MM speeders/Attack Bikes or Dreadnoughts even) to make sure those BW die, then take out the rest of the army from afar with good AI (Dakka preds, Typoons).
When he gets close; make the push! Assault, rapid fire, focus your entire army on 1 treath until it's dead. Then focus on the next, whilst makeing sure he doesn't get any multi-charges on you so he can only take out one unit at a time.

Pro-tip:
Stay in your transport(s), Orks have troubles with vehicles at range and even when they are close each unit could take a turn or 2 to kill a moving vehicle. When they finally do, there are still some marines inside to deal with!

Also:
Servitors
Techmaries,
Calgar,
and Chronos

are all WAY to expesive for what they do...

Joostuh wrote:Pro-tip:
Stay in your transport(s), Orks have troubles with vehicles at range and even when they are close each unit could take a turn or 2 to kill a moving vehicle.

The best tools they have for anti-transport are lootas and deffkoptas. Point for point, their about statically average at taking down AV 11. If you can take those targets out at rangel, they will be forced to use PKs to crack open Rhinos, which is never an ideal situation for orks.

Note : Again, they all have a hard time with land raiders. Even the PK kopta scout move trick is not good. What use is the STR 7 PK on the rear of the LR? (The kopta is STR 3, double for PK and add 1 for FC)

If you do invest in landraiders, stopping the battlewagons is your top priority. D6 s10 hits from the deff rolla will smash up land raiders real good. Other than that the only other real threat to a lr is a charging nob squad and/or warboss, target priority is key against orks.

Was the Deff Rolla FAQed to work on vehicles? Last I read in YMDC it was still highly contested.

The Deffrolla was FAQed, it works just fine on Vehicles. Whether skimmers can dodge on a +3 is the new issue if I remember correctly...

OnT, I would advice you agaist tailoring your list against a specific opponent. Go for a take all commers list (unless your friend is tailoring his list...)

Do you want a 1750pts list or what list are you looking for?

Thats good news for orks, as it means they can effect LRs.

I also agree with tedurur. Tailoring your list is a good way to show him "Look, I can win too", but if you want to keep that friend you won't play it more than once.

When I was in my late teens -- early 20s, I was a big WAAC player. I would go into my FLGS and bring the most powerful force I could muster and play as hard as I could. After a year or so, I realized most people there stopped playing me. I began to change my tactics, and brought weaker units and began offering advise to players who I was playing. Oddly enough I began to have more fun, and found people to play with again.
The point of that story is this : Don't play a douche army. You will have a better time for it.

Edit : I'm in my mid 30s now. Turning back the way-back machine to ~14 years ago. The army I fielded was squats. Back then you could give every model in your army a heavy bolter. Noone really fielded armor. Every game I played was a re-enactment of world war 1, where they would charge the line of HB squats in cover. It was horribly unbalanced, and I don't blame them for not playing me.

This guy and I go way back so Im not worried about upsetting his feelings. Also we just play at my house (I have my own table) so we follow the rulebook to the letter. I really appreciate all the advice though. I know that I shouldnt tailor my list, but I've lost like 10 or so games (i.e. every time I've played him). He is really smart and he plays to win. I cant blame him though cuz I do the same with my roommate (I finally lost last night cuz I let him borrow my LR and my poor Death Company [I have a BA army as well] had no protection when he dropped his MM Dreads next to a little rhino). He gives advice after the fact and I've been trying to use all this to come up with something to give me a win. So here's my new list:

(By the way we usually play 1750 pts.)

HQ:
Vulkan He'stan - 190 pts

TROOPS:
2 x Tac Squads (10 man) w/ Flamer, Missile Launcher & Rhino
1 x Tac Squad (10 man) w/Flamer, Multi-Melta & Drop Pod (Vulkan would be with this squad) - All together 615 pts

ELITES:
3 x Basic Dreadnoughts (MM and CC FIst) - 315 pts
3 x Drop Pods (for dreads) [2 with Locator beacons] - 125 pts

FAST ATTACK:
2 x Land Speeder w/ Extra HF - 120 pts

HEAVY:
1 x Devastator Squad (5 man) w/ 4 Missile Launchers - 150 pts
1 x Predator w/ Lascannon SS - 120 pts
1 x Vindicator - 115 pts

Anyway the way he plays is he takes 3 BWs (1 w/Nobz, 1 w/ Burna Boyz, 1 w/ Regular Orks, Warboss with Nobz and Big Mek with Burna Boyz), 2 trukks with orks and on their own at the back like 8 orks with rocket launchers or something. So there is a dread per BW, the Pred and Devastators are for the trukks, the Land Speeders are for the RL orks, Vulkan lets me re-roll with the meltas and flamers, and then I keep the tac marines in the rhinos as long as I can to try and give myself a shot at assaulting much weaker ork units.

So what do y'all think? Also what do y'all recommend as a well rounded list?

Your last list looks better imo.

As for cracking BWs, Typhoon speeders are amazing at cracking those things wide open. 2 Missiles to the side has a good/great chance of destroying or at least stopping a Wagon.

Personally I find 2 squads of tacticals enough at 1750pts, just dont play them too recklessly.

Im a big fan of combat tactics so my go to HQ choice is the Libby. A take all commers list that I run at times which Im confident in that it should be able to handle his list is a AV 13 wallish list

HQ:
Libby (Avenger+Null Zone) = 100

Troops:
10xTacticals (ML+MG+Combi-M) = 185
Rhino = 35

10xTacticals (ML+MG+Combi-M) = 185
Rhino = 35

Elites:
Iron Clad (HF+MG+2xHK) = 165

Iron Clad (HF+MG+2xHK) = 165

7xSternguard (4xCombi-Melta+2xCombi-Flamer+HF) = 215
Rhino = 35

Heavy:
Vindicator (Dozerblade) = 120

Vindicator (Dozerblade) = 120

ACLC Pred = 120

Fast:
Typhoon Speeder = 90

Typhoon Speeder = 90

Typhoon Speeder = 90

1750pts