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There's an upcoming local tournament in the local gaming club and I need some feedback on the list I plan on using. First some notes...jetbikes in any form are out of the question, I don't have them and it's not likely I'll be able to acquire them in time for the league, unfortunately. And 2 troop squads at 1750 seems small, but I never have problems in objective games due to ease with which I can contest objectives with virtually every unit in my list. I will struggle at 4+ objectives, but then again, most armies I'll face will struggle there, mine probably less so than others. Besides, I'm lacking more Wave Serpents, jetbikes or Pathfinders, so I don't have much to go on here.

HQ:

Autarch with Mandiblasters, Fusion gun, Power weapon and Warp Jump generator 115
Farseer with Runes of Warding, Spirit stones, Doom and Guide 135

Elites:

5x Fire Dragons 80
+ Wave Serpent with spirit stones and TL scatterlaser 125

Troops:

10x Dire Avengers with dual shuricat Exarch and Bladestorm 152
+ Wave Serpent with spirit stones, TL BL145

10x Storm Guardians with dual flamers and a Destructor Warlock 127
+ Wave Serpent with spirit stones, TL BL 145

Fast Attack:

7x Warp Spiders: Exarch with dual deathspinner, powerblades and Withdraw 196

Heavy Support:

3x War walker squadron with 6x SL 180

2x Fire Prism with spirit stones and holofields 340

Total: 1750


What I'm wondering about the most are upgrades. The seer could be just a plain Doomseer, the troop Serpents could exchange their SL and SC for a TL BL, Warp Spiders could give up one or two of their squad, Fire Prisms could lose their Holofields. I'd like to keep SE on the Prisms because they're invaluable at contesting far out objectives and are just plain hard to predict their movement. All this would give me around 150 more points to work with. And frankly, I don't know what to put there for those points. If you guys have any ideas, I'd appreciate them.

IMHO I think running any Eldar list without Eldrad is a fool-hearty mistake, also Autarchs are a complete waste. Start with Eldrad and an Avatar and build from there. Your Heavy support is good, you just def need to drop the holos and star engines, keep them cheap and put them in cover 60 inches away from the enemy - they get ignored. That alone affords you Eldrad who comes with every spell a 3+ inv 4T and an additional spell a turn. I don't recommend arming serpents with BL ether - it's just too expensive. I'd drop withdraw from the spiders and the exarch all together as spiders are worthless for assault anyways. Now you've got your avatar and I'm sure you could find a way to max the squad out.

How are you going to use the farseer? Are two powers really necessary, or would one be used more often than the other?

I like autarchs partly because of the reserves bonus. The way you're using yours seems like it's too expensive for what you're getting. Is that warp spider unit, with its 7 or so S3 PW attacks, really a worthwhile assault unit? It might be better cut down to pure shooting.

Your fire prisms are overloaded! Star engines are not a priority upgrade for a shooting tank. I assume you use them for contesting objectives, but realistically there are better units for that, and fire prisms are a priority target for your opponent, no need to make them more expensive. I am not a fan of spirit stones on any vehicle, I wouldn't even consider giving them to any except a fire dragon wave serpent.

Overall, the fire dragons, autarch and fire prisms are the only things you have against medium and heavy vehicles. I see you are short on replacement units, but you could definitely fit another wave serpent, and either a firedragon or a troops unit, into this list.

RinesofGlory wrote:IMHO I think running any Eldar list without Eldrad is a fool-hearty mistake, also Autarchs are a complete waste. Start with Eldrad and an Avatar and build from there. Your Heavy support is good, you just def need to drop the holos and star engines, keep them cheap and put them in cover 60 inches away from the enemy - they get ignored. That alone affords you Eldrad who comes with every spell a 3+ inv 4T and an additional spell a turn. I don't recommend arming serpents with BL ether - it's just too expensive.

This is pretty terrible advice. The Avatar has no place in a mech list and Eldrad is very expensive and not fully used in most mech lists. You don't have any assault based units (or any real reason to get in close) so his added survivability and assault ability are meaningless, as are Mind War and Eldritch Storm (as they are pretty average anyway and he can't cast them from inside a vehicle). For a Mech list a Farseer with Doom, Guide and most importantly Runes of Warding does basically the same job for a fraction of the price, which at 1750 is particularly important. Eldrad can be helpful in a mech list but usually he is only worth considering when you get to 2000pts or so and you are wanting double Guide (two Falcons, two War Walker units etc). Obviously he is the only choice in this case if you already have an Autarch. The Autarch is a much better choice than an Avatar for this type of list as well, it lets you play the reserves game effectively which by itself is worth the 70pts you pay for him.
There is nothing wrong with Bright Lances on Serpents either, yes they are expensive, but they are one of the only ways you can get reliable long ranged (as in not Fire Dragons) anti tank firepower into an Eldar list. Its always more beneficial to drop that Land Raider on the other side of the board than it is to destroy it up close with Fire Dragons (when its already in your face).

At the moment the main problems with this list are not enough anti tank firepower, light on scoring options and some bloated upgrades. The Prisms are way more expensive than they need to be, the best way to run them is naked and have them hug the back board edges/corners to simply stay out of range of most return fire. Spirit Stones are complete waste on them as they should never be anywhere near an assault unit (so not moving for a turn shouldn't make much difference) and Holos are just too expensive for them. Star Engines aren't needed on any vehicle let alone Prisms which don't want to be anywhere near the enemy, 24" movement should be more than enough to get you where you need to be as long as you pay attention to table position. If you want last turn objective contesting options just take Vypers (who do the job for half the price which is important with random game length). If you do insist on taking Star Engines you should at least put them on transports so you can capture the objective rather than simply contesting it.

Two scoring units is very light for this points level, particularly when one of them is effectively a suicide unit (Storm Guardians will get out, flame something to death then die). The cheapest way to get another scoring unit is 5 Avengers, but you would probably have to swap the War Walkers to a Falcon (better than a Serpent) if you expect to get them a ride without dropping anything else (and they need a transport otherwise they are a waste of time). The alternative would be a couple of small Jetbike units, they won't contribute much as far as damage output goes, but do give you some more scoring options. If they aren't an option for you then never mind.

Being light on anti tank is the other issue, normally you expect to see 2 units of Fire Dragons at this points level but instead you are running Warp Spiders (who can handle light armour pretty well, but won't threaten heavy armour in the same way). Assuming you add at least 1 more scoring unit this doesn't leave you with any real room to add another Fire Dragon unit without dropping the Spiders. If you want to keep them then you are probably best to take Bright Lances on both the troop Serpents (no underslung Cannon unless you have plenty of points to spare, totally different preferred targets) to give you a bit more anti tank punch.

Other than that just be careful about getting tied to the War Walkers too closely. They are very dangerous with Guide, but keeping it on them can leave your Farseer + accompanying troop unit + transport all moving at the speed of your slowest unit, which can be crippling.

If you somehow end up with more points left over add Vypers.

so far your list isnt too bad

however eldrad isnt always needed...i understand the point in having him but if you really dont utilize psychic powers alot then he can be a waste, just like in this list

your farseer is pretty much on spot with what you need...i take it your gonna have him ride around with the avengers to guide them when they bladestorm and doom the unit they are shooting at. im not too big on guardians mainly because of the poor save and poor bs/ws, id rather just do another unit of avengers.

also how well do the spiders work for you...im not a big fan of them even with the autarch. if you find that they dont perform up to what your wanting then id drop them. with the points you can get another squad of dragons in a serpent and use the remaining points to fill out a second avenger squad.

and speaking of dragons you can drop the warp jump generator and have him ride around with the dragons...or keep him the way he is and bounce around popping tanks. if you go either way with him then you can drop the power weapon as it will pretty much be useless if all your doing is jumping around.

now your serpents...its obvious i dont know what your meta is in your area but id drop the underslung shuriken cannon. some people find a use for it but if it isnt something your gonna get to use for at least 4 turns then i feel its not worth it. but id keep the holos on the prisms...again many will say this is a big no but it actually does save your butt more than you think, same with spirit stones

as for your prisms...id drop the star engines and either use the points elsewhere or give your 2 serpents for your troops the engines for the last turn objective grab

I am fairly in agreement with Power Guy across the board.

I will say that I've run similar Autarch warp spider units, and they are a lot of fun. The power weapons and withdraw are useful for temporarily hopping into close combat, to dodge your opponent's shooting phase, and the power weapons from the autarch and exarch are important to add some zest to that charge. I don't really like the idea of putting an Autarch with a squad of fire dragons, he won't drastically improve their fire power or survivability, and will only serve to change an 80 point suicide unit into a 180 point suicide unit... might as well just use wraithguard, haha.

All said though, it would be a good idea to trade some of those upgrades on the fire prisms for bright lances on your wave serpents. Only having a single squad of fire dragons leaves you somewhat vulnerable to heavy armor, which can be somewhat mitigated by lances.

I also think it would be a good idea to try to fit 3 bikes and an embolden lock into the list. Just for zipping around and snagging objectives.

Haha, I see someone else got the jump on that Avatar advice. Yes, in a mech list, he is a liability, not an asset.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly, I know you're against spirit stones, but I use them on all my skimmers, no question. Fire Prisms without spirit stones can't contest as reliably and if one of the Prisms get shaken I use it for mobile cover for my Serpents for one turn. Works great, tbh. Also, I've used Prisms a lot against MLs and LCs, hugging the board with them won't make you escape shooting. And usually, it'll be shot at as much as it is needed to at least keep it from shooting. Holofields on them are a way to ensure that they make out alive. They are very useful for me beyond their 60" main gun and so I'm really reluctant to play them without holofs.

Powerguy, SGs don't usually die. Usually they wipe a squad off of an objective in cover and park there themselves. I do have a Falcon ready, but giving up those War walkers for an iffy battletank/cheesy scoring unit is something I'd do only if I had to.

Iliadon, those Warp Spiders work great for me. They're an expensive unit for sure, but they rarely die, are fast as hell, can't be locked in combat, can harass both in shooting and melee and pack a BS6 meltagun from the Autarch. I really like their versatility.

Akaean, if I had 4 jetbikes around, I'd use that. It's something like 130 points, right about what I'd manage to scrape around by giving up some of those upgrades.

Now, I'll once again say that I don't normally run into trouble in objective games and my own observation has been that 3 troop choices at 1500-1750 are more of a failsafe, not a necessity.

Thanks for your replies, I'll give them some thought and work on a more optimised list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There, I removed SE from the Prisms, put BLs on troop Serpents and for the remaining 10 points added mandiblasters to the Autarch for an extra power attack. 10 power attacks on a charge is nothing to sneeze at, especially considering I'll soften up the squad with shooting first.

You you are right. Avatars suck?

No, they don't and none of us said they do. But there are different units that work in different lists. Avatar in a mech list is slow, unsupported, easily tarpited/deathstared/shot MC that has no synergy with the rest of the army. Wraithlords and Avatars belong to a hard and heavy foot eldar list, not a fast, skimmer based one like mine.

It's just my opinion but I think Avatars and Eldrad fit any list. They are just such bargains you have to take them. Eldrad = synergy really.

You are wrong... If you take Avatar and eldrad, that means that entire game eldrad will have to be within 6'' of the avatar... And if you use guide, it means somebody else will have to be in 6'' too... When you put all that together, you have very mobile force that mustn't move away. And that is not synergy... That's why this combo works good in hard and heavy list... Because your entire army is already moving at speed of avatar!

As for eldrad, he is good, but in mech list he is just too much... Not needed... He will not be on foot, but in ws, which means no shooting spells... Next, you can guide only vehicles, not troops inside (except those inside same serpent) which makes his 3 powers not always needed... You can go just fine with normal farseer and save pts...