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So I'm a big fan of the C'Tan, and the Nightbringer in particular. The concept is why I took up Necrons in the first place. Incomprehensibly powerful ancient beings = cool.

However, they're a ton of points.

Have a 1000 point tournament coming up. Wondering if it's viable to use a C'Tan and be at all competitive at that points value, or if that's just going to kneecap me in the long run.

Opinions?

NO NO NO NO
360 points in a 1000 point tournament, with arguably the worst current codex?

For a start, i think the Deceiver is so much better. for 60 points less, you get -1 strength and less WS i believe. But I5 instead of 4, the ability to move units after deployment, and if you get charged by anything that will kill you, run away.

But seriously, only take either C-Tan at 1000 if you want to lose turn 1/2/3 every game.
What else do you have for options?

Too expensive for what they do. With DE poison spam. . .well, you aren't going to see them live to close combat. C'tan are not going to serve you well at 1000 points. NB is 36% of your total army in one model and deciever is 30%. Deciever is greater than the NB as well. Pity too as the NB is my favorite of the two fluff and model wise.

Oh, I know the Deceiver is better, play-wise, it's more of a style choice between the two.

Oh well, a shame that. Thanks for the input.

As for other options, I'm thinking a Destroyer Lord with a retinue of Wraiths or something. Might try a 'normal' Lord with Veil of Darkness popping around with a unit of Immortals, not sure; it's be a trick none of the locals have seen.
Kind of like to play a Monolith if I'm not using a C'Tan, but at 1000 points that's pretty iffy too.

For a 1000 point game, Warriors as many as possible. Phase out is your biggest concern. NB or monolith, is way to much pts wise. I recommend Destroyers/Heavy D's (for those tank heavy armies) for stonger fire power.

The more Necrons you field the better. Period.

GL in the torny!!

PS: I know the Monolith/ C'tans are badass looking, and fun to field,but torny's its more about function. Most opponents will try phase you out. Most armies (exspecially the new ones) can in matter of turns. Exspecially torny lists.

Can't stand Heavy Destroyers. I feel stupid spending 65 points on one shot each.
Destroyers, though, seem like they're still good enough to use (this will be my first 5th edition tourney).

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Can't stand Heavy Destroyers. I feel stupid spending 65 points on one shot each.
Destroyers, though, seem like they're still good enough to use (this will be my first 5th edition tourney).

Heavy D's are a one trick pony. They are ONLY useful against tank heavy armies. In 1000 point games, 1 squad of Destroyers, or 2 3man squads will be more than enough.

Just to give you a list, this is roughly what i ran at 1000 points (wasn't optimised, i only planned on playing 1500 points, but changed on the night)

Lord with Res Orb, Warscythe (think he had a couple of other upgrades because of spare points.

2x10 Warriors

3 Destroyers
2 Destroyers
10 Scarabs W/Disruption fields.

Keep the Lord and 20 warriors together, in cover as much as possible. Scarabs turbo boost first turn, to try and get in the way/be a distraction (obviously you can change plans with these if you get a better idea) And destroyers stick together if not near Res Orb, so they get WWB.
I think you could probably make a better 1000 point list, but it worked fairly well, i didn't phase out until turn 6 but then again the Orks on my side took a lot of the early damage.

Just for an idea another viable 1000 point list is:

Lord with Orb
2x10 Warriors
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
4 Destroyers

It's 1000 points dead on. With the Orb around it's not such a big deal to try to use the Warriors offensively and 30 Strength 6 shots at 36" that can move and fire (and come on a T5 body) is a tough nut to crack at this low of points.

It'd be insanity to field a C'tan less than 1500 points. Even then it's pushing it but I still do. C'tan and a Monolith at 1500.

With the presence of BA, an army like that would be flayed alive by turn 3.

At 1,000 points what Necron list isn't going to be torn apart by BA/SW?

Destroyers are the most reliable thing in the whole book.

stalkerzero wrote:Just for an idea another viable 1000 point list is:

Lord with Orb
2x10 Warriors
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
4 Destroyers

Heh, wish I owned that many Destroyers. Only have 5. Though I'm considering ripping the arms off of my Heavy Destroyers and converting them to normal ones, since I never use them.
I'd buy more, but I plan on waiting for the new Codex before getting anything else, rather than buying something only to find an awesome new model for it just comes out in a few months.

Destroyers are already plastic. They're one of the few units in the codex I was confident buying (other than Warriors/Monolith).

stalkerzero wrote:Destroyers are already plastic. They're one of the few units in the codex I was confident buying (other than Warriors/Monolith).

So were Dark Eldar Warriors, so I'm a bit wary.
Fortunately, I have pretty much a whole army, and have for years. Just unable to do things like tossing out 15 Destroyers and zooming around unleashing gaussy death. About all I could still use is more Destroyers, another Monolith, and any new units arriving with the new Codex. Here's hoping for something good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord w/ Destroyer Body, Phase Shifter, Resurrection Orb, and Warscythe
3 Wraiths (with Lord)
10 Warriors
10 Warriors
5 Destroyers
3 Scarab Swarms w/ Disruption Fields

How's that look?

Not sure how the Swarms will do with only 3 bases. And feels weird not fielding any Immortals. But I'm not really used to playing at 1000 points.
I know Wraiths aren't amazing, but I'm afraid the Lord is too vulnerable flying around on his own.

(should I move this to Army Lists?)

I love the C'Tan, and if I had the energy to slam my head against the wall I'd go deeply into why and refute a few claims being made in this thread. That said:

I wouldn't bring either C'Tan at such a small point value. As coincidence would have it I have a 1000 point battle report in my sig with a list that I think is reasonably competitive.

Hmm...perhaps I'll bring a Monolith...seems to have worked for you...
I'll consider that, the tourney isn't until the end of the month.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Oh, I know the Deceiver is better, play-wise, it's more of a style choice between the two.

Oh well, a shame that. Thanks for the input.

As for other options, I'm thinking a Destroyer Lord with a retinue of Wraiths or something. Might try a 'normal' Lord with Veil of Darkness popping around with a unit of Immortals, not sure; it's be a trick none of the locals have seen.
Kind of like to play a Monolith if I'm not using a C'Tan, but at 1000 points that's pretty iffy too.

I play against 2 necron players on a regular basis. One plays gimmicky Necrons, the other has only one list to use on a constant basis which is a 1500 point army (which has a nightbringer in it).

In answer to your main question... C'tan is not a strong option in a 1000 point game. Especially nightbringer who is awesome, but will not leave you with many points to build the rest of your army. He's just too costly for what he provides. Even if he doesn't get hit by up to 6 lascannon batteries first turn (which is what usually happens when playing against me)... He still has to deal with some other viscious things. He's also not a Necron I don't believe.. so he doesn't count for Phase out. Which means you're more likely to phase out. I'd suggest playing him in nothing less than 2000 Points and only as a second HQ choice. In under that.. I'd recommend the following.
I'd recommend strong amount of warriors. The more the merrier. However unlikely, they always can wound things. No matter what. I'd suggest a Lord with a Res orb along with your Warriors in Phalanx positioning. My buddy is a bit gimmicky and loves the shadow-cape deepstriking thingy (I don't know the name). Usually uses the one group of warriors + Lord to deepstrike movement than double tap something..Last time he glanced off all the weapons off my land raider besides the storm bolter (killed 5 weapons)...I don't recommend that since it's a little risky for competitive play.
Afterward its up to how you play, but I prefer either Destroyers/ Heavy destroyers. Honestly though, the more models the better. Thats my opinion at least.

Edit: A monolith can be good since it'll soak up a lot of fire from inexperienced players...but again Its only 1000 points. I don't run land raiders in my 1000pt list so I generally don't recommend similar choices. It's just too big a chunk of your army. 1/4 your army would be the monolith. It's a fantastic unit and definitely one of the most powerful in the game... its just not so good in lower point lists.

There are a number of armies that you will struggle against without a C'tan. Large MCs with good saves, multiple vehicles full of melee units, units with a 2+. Chaos, BA, and SW are good examples.

You simply don't have enough shooting to stop everything, so you need a C'tan to threaten/clean up the remainders. Land Raiders and flying/DSing MCs are a particular pain. Just today I was playing without one against Chaos with a winged Prince and a Land Raider full of 'zerkers + Lord. The Prince deepstruck in and I *had* to shoot everything I had at the Prince or he'd simply start munching units. I didn't have enough shooting to spare to stop the LR after the whip deviated completely off it. (Did I mention I hate 5th treatment of blast templates?) If I had fielded a C'tan instead of some Warriors and my Lord, he could have taken care of the Prince + the termis that dropped next to him or helped wall off the LR while threatening other things. Just it's presence on the board would have forced him to be more careful .

Heavy Ds aren't for killing vehicles, though they do OK at rhinos and chimeras. They're for inflicting instant death on T4 models and punching 2+ saves. Shooting Destroyers at Plague Marines, non-SS Terminators, Meganobs, and such is a waste and you can't always bring the whip to bear.

Warriors suck. Terribly. You want to take as few as you can avoid phase out with, and that depends on your opponents and your skills. Everything else needs to go in units that can actually do damage rather than sit there and pray they don't get assaulted.

The Grog wrote:There are a number of armies that you will struggle against without a C'tan.

So would you advise taking one at 1000 points?

I'd say, based on experience, that a Monolith and a Veil of Darkness is enough to keep you out of serious trouble at such low point values.

That's odd, what happened to the 'at higher points levels' qualifier I thought I wrote?

At 1k, a C'tan is pretty risky. It will stop some other risky plays, like a Raider full of ugly or a flying Prince/Tyrant or a Thunderwolf Lord. But there is very much the possbility of you fielding him and him doing exactly nothing because he can't catch anything and nothing had to advance towards him.

A Monolith is likely the better choice.

The Grog wrote:That's odd, what happened to the 'at higher points levels' qualifier I thought I wrote?

I just read your post 3 times and didn't see it. It happens.

OP was asking about bringing one for a 1000 point tourney, that's why I asked you. I happen to agree with everything you said, just not at 1000 points.