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If my reading of the rules is correct, models with pistols get an additional close combat attack. Since a laspistol is a free upgrade, why not take them for a 30 man power blob squads? If you're using the power blob squad as an assault unit, what's the disadvantage, aside from losing some long range firepower? You get a round of shooting before assault, and an additional close combat attack. Overall, that's an additional 60 Str 3 hits for a shooting and assault.

Your thoughts?

IS troopers cannot take laspistols. otherwise, yeah i would.

Yeah, you used to have a doctrine that allowed you to take CCW+LP, but no longer.

It doesn't matter how much an upgrade costs if a unit does not have access to it.

Bring that option back and blob guard would become a whole new level of asskicking.

DKoK can have pistols in their blob squads, but they do the whole power blob thing better than normal IG anyway, with their WS4 and powerfists on their IS sergeants and Commissars.

It would indeed kickass....if we could take it. PCS can do that, but PIS can not. It makes us powerblob players sad, but what can we do?

tuebor wrote:DKoK can have pistols in their blob squads, but they do the whole power blob thing better than normal IG anyway, with their WS4 and powerfists on their IS sergeants and Commissars.

And built in stubborn. And cheaper lascannon HWS. And the ability to confer FnP to a blob.

*Drool*

Its a shame building a 1500pts foot blob DKoK would cost $1500.

If the Guard codex let me swap lasguns for pistols, there would be a want ad in the swap shop for 100 cadian pistol arms.

Over my dead body, I'd be badgering any IG player I could find to see if I could buy laspistol and chainsword arms in bulk, to say the least.

Apparently, this is allowable in the Renegade IG codex. I have to go find some arms now.

There is no renegade IG codex, unless you are talking about some homebrew. In which case, it's all just friendly house rules anyway, so you can do what you want.

jmurph wrote:There is no renegade IG codex, unless you are talking about some homebrew. In which case, it's all just friendly house rules anyway, so you can do what you want.

Forgeworld has much to teach us.

Forgeworld rules aren't as universally accepted as GW codecies. Personal opinions, gaming stores, and metas may differ, but you can't always assume that Forgeworld material will be welcome at a table.

If it is, though, DKoK is the bee's knees *and* the cat's pajamas for FIG (foot IG) players. Hidden PFs instead of PWs? Sure. Twice as many attacks since platoons can take pistols? Yes please. An HQ that grants any one unit within 2" FNP. ::drool::

ElCheezus wrote:Forgeworld rules aren't as universally accepted as GW codecies. Personal opinions, gaming stores, and metas may differ, but you can't always assume that Forgeworld material will be welcome at a table.

Whenever I see someone say this my retort is always thus: if someone spends the time, energy, dedication and, most importantly, money building a pure Forge World army I don't think anyone, anywhere would be inclined to turn them down for a game. Personal opinions be damned, you'll be playing a pure Forge World army which will probably be painted and modelled exceptionally well as the Spehss Mehreen kiddies don't have the kind of scratch, or ability, to play pure FW.

I think the 'Forge World = unofficial' arguement is only ever present on the internet and in a few select tournaments. I have never seen/heard of anyone's FW models, even if they are attached as part of a 'normal' army, being turned down for a game.

That came across as more of a rant than I intended it to...I guess I just don't like to see potential dissuasion because of claims of 'illegitimacy' on the table-top.

L. Wrex

well I would.

I mean, sure, I'd play against some crazy forgeworld stuff once to say I'd done it, but after that, I'd probably insist either that the use the regular guard codex for their ultra-cool models, or they let me make up my list right before the game.

It's bad enough that GW gave ludicrous advantages to BA and we can't do anything about it. There's nothing dishonorable in refusing to play against the ludicrous advantages FW gave to DKoK.

Remember, FW exists ONLY to sell models. Whatever nonsense they write up to sell them is their own affair. GW exists to sell models, sure, but they also exist to create a more or less balanced game to play with them around.

I mean, you don't need to feel obliged to play against any fandex that comes around...

The group I play with, most guys would probably play you. But in our leagues or tournaments, it would be considered bad form to expect to be allowed to play a non-Codex army.

Whether or not you consider it good form, or agree with it, or allow it yourself, you must admit there are places that won't. Therefore, it's prudent to check beforehand.

Think of it like writing a check vs paying in cash vs debit cards. You know everybody takes cash, so you should have that on hand. I suggest having a codex army before working on pure FW stuff, so you have something to use in case you come across a place where they "only take cash".

Ailaros also makes a point that most people aren't familiar with FW rules, and that it's highly likely they aren't prepared to play against is, both in terms of list and playstyle. If it's part of your meta and you and yours are used to it, then there's no real discussion, since it's already been cleared.

Just don't go to a strange game store and full on *expect* people to play against you.

Yet another topic decends into FW legitimacy, can't we have one thread that doesn't? No one is going to change their minds on the subject anyway.

Back on topic, I do find it funny that no one really thought much of the pistol option in the last codex, from a competitive standpoint anyway. Now we can merge squads it is a much lamented loss.

At the end of the day, players have to agree to play you in a normal game of 40k anyway. They can just as happily refuse to play against your codex BA/IG/SW just as readily as they can refuse to play against your DKoK. I don't see why the FW armies are put under more severe restrictions just because they happen to be made/sold somewhere other than a GW retail store.

I realise, and accept, that tournaments are well within their right to outlaw Forge World if they don't want them taking part. Would I levy the same permission on a FLGS? Not really. Again, as long as the DKoK player has a copy of his rules and army list and lets their opponent know prior to the game what does what, I don't really see any issue arising.

FW has matured a hell of a lot since Imperial Armour I + II (which did require opponents permission because, y'know, it has Thunderhawks and Baneblades in them) and I just think they need to be more readily accepted rather than red-flagged. Diversity is good.

L. Wrex


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Trickstick wrote:Yet another topic decends into FW legitimacy, can't we have one thread that doesn't? No one is going to change their minds on the subject anyway.

Sure we can, provided that thread doesn't touch the subject of FW

L. Wrex

It's not about right vs wrong, or official or not. It's about widespread acceptance. FW hasn't reached the point where you can assume it's okay.

People like to know what to expect when they play a game, and there are plenty of codecies to keep track of at the moment. FW stuff just adds more. I'd be in favour of playing a couple games just to try out the fun stuff. But at the end of the day it's basically an "expansion pack" that introduces rules that not everybody likes or likes to play against.

Plopping down a FW-based army without at least *asking* the gaming group or your opponent is just presumptuous, and bad form. I'm not saying you shouldn't accept it. I'm saying you should expect it.

Trickstick wrote:Yet another topic decends into FW legitimacy, can't we have one thread that doesn't? No one is going to change their minds on the subject anyway.

Back on topic, I do find it funny that no one really thought much of the pistol option in the last codex, from a competitive standpoint anyway. Now we can merge squads it is a much lamented loss.

I think that's on purpose. A proper power blob is about 250 points, easily able to fit into most lists, and can kill just about anything in CC as is. Giving it double the current attacks would perhaps be a bit over the top.