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Let me start out by saying I have nothing against raider and ravager spam lists to try and win by attrition, but against some armies (i.e. IG, SW) it simply doesn't work. Those armies are naturally tougher and more cost effective in shooting. Also, no player can completely depend on going first, and in the standard WWP lists you see out there, (2 raiders each with some retinue for a WWP carrier) if they get shot down first turn, your usual things that would come through the portal will get stuck in the middle of the table. So two things need to be done in order to create a more stable, successful delivery system for a WWP army.

1) The delivery system cannot depend on raiders, and needs to be as resilient to shooting as possible.

So after much debate I can only find 1 solution for the WWP carrier, and that's Harlequins. Anything else (Grotesques, Wracks, etc.) is vulnerable to Manticore pie plates that you will most certainly face, or your local Meta doesn't have a strong IG presence. So for 130 points you can get 5 harlis that are basically immune to being shot at on the first turn, and with the death jester can still be a useful turret. It's cheap, and extraordinarily effective. Feel free to punch wholes in this idea, as I'll take any advice I can get on making the WWP's retinue as resilient as possible.

2) Your list needs to be tailored with units that can succeed from 21" (12" deploy + 6" move + 3" portal).

So now you deployed the WWP, what do you need to succeed? You have about 15-27" of board space left to cover. This means Incubi, Wyches, Talos, etc. will be unable to reach your opponent without being shot up. You need things that can go at least 18" to break your opponent's lines. Hellions, Beastmasters, and Scourges are the natural choices to fulfill this task. You also need to keep your DL number at a reasonable level, or AV12-14 will be extraordinarily tough, if not impossible to beat. So the natural choice to fill that hole is Trueborn, Warriors, Ravagers, and Voidravens.

With all this in mind, this is the list I came up with. Keep in mind it is by no means perfect, and I'm still trying to work out the bugs. Also note you shouldn't automatically put everything in reserve/deepstrike, as the presence of one beastmaster unit on the table in a pitched battle scenario can put a lot of pressure on your opponent to leave your DL carriers alone.

HQ (85) - Haemonculus w/ WWP
HQ (105) - Baron
Elite (130) - Harlequins x 5 w/ Shadowseer, Death Jester
Elite (86) - Trueborn x 3 w/ Dark Lance x 2
Elite (86) - Trueborn x 3 w/ Dark Lance x 2
Troops (335) - Hellions x 20 w/ Helliarch, Stunclaw
Fast (270) - Beastmasters x 5 w/ Razorwing Flock x 6, Khymera x 10
Fast (270) - Beastmasters x 5 w/ Razorwing Flock x 6, Khymera x 10
Heavy (105) - Ravager
Heavy (105) - Ravager
Heavy (105) - Ravager

This list is designed for 1850, so I still have 168 points left for troops and upgrades. Having a tough time deciding what to fill out the list with. Either Warriors with DL or Wyches with Haywire Grenades to handle a walker are what I'm leaning towards, although a unit of wracks in a raider would be resilient enough to grab an objective. Also note in a Dawn of War setting this troop choice would be deployed with the Haemi to give him some sort of retinue for some support as he deploys the portal. Every game the Hellions and Braon would be declared as deep striking, and a beastmaster unit would be declared in reserve (2 beastmaster units if DoW).

Edit: To fill out the 168 points I'm thinking flickerfields on ravagers (30), Troops (128) - Wyches x 9 w/ Haywire Grenades, Shardnet & Impaler, Hekatrix, and a casket of flensing on the Haemi

Why take a hammy? The unit he is with can't use his pain token. Give him a hex rifle I guess so he can help out the death jester.

I'd say replace him with a archon with a blaster. High bs for re rolls, useful in cc an still pretty cheap.

Because he can run away from the harlequins to the hellions later on, and he is cheaper then an archon. I'm short on points as it is, and I still need at least a second troop. I agree it would be nice to make him more useful, but deploying 1/3rd of my army is pretty useful, no?

He would slow the hellies down, or they would have to fall back to get to him, IMHO it's a very bad Idea Helli units that big should be in muti combats or cover. If they slow down to keep the hammy with them, they are dead. Also you can drop one beastmaster and 2 flocks. 4 is good enough. Get some wracks for your Hammy if you want to keep him and give them flamers or a hex rifle and let them camp an Objetive. He can join them after he lays down the wwb. It's just not worth slowing the hellions down for a pain token.

The problem with dropping beastmasters is it brings them 1 model closer to making a leadership check. Right now you have to kill 6 models to force a leadership check, and either you're hitting it with small strength shots that take 5 to remove a model, or a large hit that I can put on a 4++ invul save.

As for the Haemi vs Archon debate, I'm happy to see that all you can poke at is that. I was more looking at vulnerability to walkers, not enough dark lances, deep striking assaults, etc. If you honestly think that this list is solid enough the only input is making the WWP carrier more useful, then I will check this list off as a successful concept, that few, if any, are creating an army around.

I never said the list was bad, if that is what you were getting that. I pretty much run something of the same list. Lots of people are basing armies like this, but that is a good thing. I think the hellions could do with out the stun claw and helliarch. I think the trueborn could use blasters instead of Darklight.

Here is a list I put together that you may like.

Archon with blaster wwb 125
The baron 105
Elite (130) - Harlequins x 5 w/ Shadowseer, Death Jester

5 trueborn with 4 blasters 120

5 trueborn with 4 blasters 120

14 hellions 224

14 hellions 224

4 beastmasters 4 razorwing flocks 10 kymera 228

4 beastmasters 4 razorwing flocks 10 kymera 228

ravager with flicker field x3

2 large troop choices with 9 blasters and 9 dark lances instead of just 13 darklances. It gives you a way to deal with Black Templars as well. Plus your true born can move and fire this way.

I'm not sure if reserving everything is the best idea as that is what I think your list is doing. I was more in favor of having all the long range support deployed in pitched battle or spearhead. I also don't see how this helps vs BT. Yes you get more dark light weapons, but being at 18" means they are far more vulnerable. If anything I would add more bodies to my DL trueborn for survivability. If I wanted a unit to get that close I would run scourges with heat lances.

Lance doen't work on BT raiders. They have Blessed hulls most of the time. Some, Myself included, then that going half reserved and half on the board just gives the other army the ablility to target half your army with their whole army. With just 3 true born you only have to lose just one to force a test. I think IMHO that for blasters coming out of the wwp to wreak Havoc a safer bet than having 3 starting on the table.

One other thing is I think you need 5 trueborn to get the heavies.

edited out because I am dumb sometimes

a haemy can do the same thing - they can still run, just not charge after it.

Somnicide wrote:One other thing is I think you need 5 trueborn to get the heavies.

pretty sure you dont, but a unit of 3 models with 2 lances is going to get shot to hell


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exergy wrote:

Somnicide wrote:One other thing is I think you need 5 trueborn to get the heavies.

pretty sure you dont, but a unit of 3 models with 2 lances is going to get shot to hell

you are right about that. I always forget all models can run.

Exergy wrote:

Somnicide wrote:One other thing is I think you need 5 trueborn to get the heavies.

pretty sure you dont, but a unit of 3 models with 2 lances is going to get shot to hell

Ah you are right, I just need 5 to get my heavies because I like 3 blasters too much ;-) My mistake.

Army builder can give you wrong reports on dark eldar as well.

I have a mac so I don't get army builder :-(

The harlies have a weakness to drop pods.

To prevent dying randomly on the first turn, make the Haemonculus an Archon with a shadowfield. 2+ invulnerable means you can take podded bolters fairly well...

Just don't let them kill off the shadowseer...

Warboss Gutrip wrote:The harlies have a weakness to drop pods.

To prevent dying randomly on the first turn, make the Haemonculus an Archon with a shadowfield. 2+ invulnerable means you can take podded bolters fairly well...

Just don't let them kill off the shadowseer...

Excellent point. I'm sold on the archon.