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hey all - just been looking over some of my lists and really trying hard to combine all the stuff i love (hammerers, grudge throwers, GW warriors) and things i think i need (cannons, magic defence etc) and this is how it came out:

Lord (GW + Shieldbearers + MRoKragg + RoSnorri + RoResistance + RoStone + RoPreservation + RoFurnace) - 271pts
Thane (BSB) - 90pts
Rune Smith (MRoBalance + RoStone) - 125pts
30 Warrior Rangers (GW + FC) - 355pts
29 Warriors (GW + FC) - 315pts
27 Hammerers (FC) - 354pts
Grudge Thrower (Engineer + RoPx2 + RoA) - 170pts
Grudge Thrower (Engineer + RoPx2 + RoA + RoB) - 175pts
Cannon (Engineer + RoF + RoB) - 145pts

2000pts

naked BSB kinda sucks but lord can accpet challenges so he should be ok, warrior rangers due to loss of strollaz (want to threaten early on, its a nice thing to have - and i think most people would go 'OH S**T!' at 30 GW warriors 12" away from there frontlines), smith is pretty basic just there to try and live and steal dices to make magic hurt a bit less, GT's now both have 2 pen runes each - S5 is just well... i just couldnt really say no, could i ?

any help/comments etc would be good - this is meant to be fairly rounded...i know its not 'optimised' or 'tournement standard' but im still fairly n00b at WHFB, still gotta learn tho eh ?

I just took a quick look and noticed your 2nd grudge thrower is illegal. You can only have 3 runes on anything and it has 4.

I will think on it a little more and try to come up with any more suggestions. Right now though it looks pretty good.

darned it - this is correct thanks for that boogey...i guess ive have to drop something on it...most liekly have to drop accuracy - but im well open to suggestions

just a quick question - but does rule of pride apply to warmachines to or just armour/weapons? (just reading it im not 100% sure....)

The problem with a naked BSB is RnF can direct their attacks at him. When you are facing a horded unit it could be 6-9 attacks coming at him, 6 attacks from Bloodletters or Chaos Warriors With MoK 18 attacks focused on him. MRoGromil, RoResist and RoPreservation is a must IMO. Shield on the RS is nice too for the extra saves. I've messed with making a few lists and a Lord at 2k takes away from a lot, I think you need to drop him or a GT. Warriors are our bread and butter, horded out IMO 30 does not cut it, 35 minimum and I prefer 40, you want all 30 attacks hitting that first round of combat after shooting casualties and close combat casualties to striking last.

i think im gonna have to trade out the accuracy runes for the MRoGromril and RoResistance for the BSB... as for the smith i know shield would be nice but no points...same for preservation atm

but ill test and see what works

I agree with the BSB point. Spend all the points you gain from dropping some runes of one of hte grudge throwers on adding to the survivability of your BSB. Something like the master rune of spite would be good.

RoResist+MRoGromil beats MRoSprite until you are getting hit by a strength 7 attack or 5 with armor piercing. If you drop runes from your GTs don't drop the RoAccuracy if you don't want it, don't bother with a GT. I still think you should hold off on the lord until 2500 you want defensive characters and you want to bring your units up to at least 35. We need 30 attacks to break our foes in the first round of combat and even 30 man strong after shooting, magic and enemies attacking you need a buffer. If you drop the lord you may want to drop the hammerers for cheaper GW warriors to get more numbers or try and fit a MRoGrungi banner and keep them within range of your other units for the extra protection.

hey all played with the modified BSB and it sucked... i mean he didnt do anything for me really - beat a champ in a challenge that was it (and he could have done that in gromril *sigh*) anyways changed more on the list - BSB is back to strollaz as it is needed, 2nd GT dropped added more hammerers and im trying out a BT with engi (if that fails gonna add more bodies for 60pts) which should work better

2xGT was awesome...when they hit so i think 1gt, 1 cannon 1 organ gun should be enough (BT is point filler and a test for the moment) should be trying that today at somepoint vs lizardmen - played the other vs lizards and high elves lost vs both just due to lack of mobility, i mean starting around 6-8inches from you enemies front line would be awesome (start 11"~ from BSB with scouts then march up so that would be fun....) also warrior rangers are fething amazing - would advise them everytime tbh, great for dealing with stuff and holding up nasty units

thanks everyone for the feedback but i think strollaz HAS to stay for the way i play, if he dies he dies thats my fault for not protecting him (i mean he flees from challenges so he cant be hit by RnF so....)

so the list looks something like this now:

Lord (GW + Shieldbearers + MRoKragg + RoSnorri + RoResistance + RoStone + RoPreservation + RoFurnace) - 271pts
Thane (BSB + Strollaz) - 145pts
Rune Smith (MRoBalance + RoStone) - 125pts
30 Warrior Rangers (GW + FC) - 355pts
29 Warriors (GW + FC) - 315pts
32 Hammerers (FC) - 414pts
Grudge Thrower (Engineer + RoPx2 + RoA) - 170pts
Cannon (Engineer + RoF + RoB) - 145pts
Bolt Thrower (Engineer) - 60pts

2000pts

There's a lot of runes on your warmachines. I know one or two is useful but i think some of them aren't neccessary, you could save quite a lot of points in dropping some.

lots of runes on the GT to makes up for the loss of the second one, as for the cannon i think those runes are a must for monster hunting so...

Yes, i think the cannon is fine. It's just you can get two grudge throwers for the price of the one you are taking. I find one rune of penetrating is sufficient on grudge throwers.

S10/4 is nice but against T4 i dont think it cuts it, well that and 2RoP VS T3 its usually dead on a 2+

yea i could get 2 GT's, almost but they would be naked and thus imo useless

also the lord i think it well worth it at 2k, he has killed (just in the 2 games mentioned) an ancient steg and a dragon... the prince ran off so...

Well, YMMV. And i have no complaints about the lord, or the rest of the list really...

well just played with the updated lsit and my opponent called it T2 after his cold one cav unit, ancient steg and skink priest died T1 (he charged cav at scouting warriors - they died and overran into the steg..killing it my turn) and cannon > flying skink priest

i played the same opponent earlier with the same list (dwarves won T6 with a massacre but we wnt on for lulz and lizards won due to some salamanders) anyways - thanks all for inputs etc i think this is gonna be my lists for a while