assault and defense grenades

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**lord17c**

Im having trouble understanding assault and def grenades. I have an opponent that loves to use them, and deny me charge bonuses, but I was wondering if the assault grenades canceled that out. Seems silly to have a great charge ruined by a silly grenade.

**MechaEmperor7000**

From what I understand, Assault Grenades are shrapnel-style grenades (in various forms) that will actually cause bodily harm, as well as destroy any interviening bushes and such, which would have hampered attacks otherwise. However they cant cause enough damage to actually incapacitate someone, hence why they cause no actual damage.

Defensive Grenades, however, are not actually harmful, but disorient attackers with hallucenogens, noxious fumes, and the like. It's distracting and annoying, but doesnt do much else other than distract you for a second. If there is no cover for the defenders to hid behind anyways, throwing one cloud of noxious fumes will not cancel out a cloud of shrapnel.

That's how I understand it at least.

**Clumpski**

excuse my ignorence, but in refernce to imperial gaurd thats frag granades (i was going to ask the same question) but what about krak? :$

**Bookwrack**

Krak grenades are used in CC against vehicles.

The deal with grenades is that assault grenades is that one way or another, they make it very difficult for the defenders to stay hunkered down in cover to receive the charge. Defensive grenades make it very difficult for the attackers to effectively reach and strike the defenders.

**micahaphone**

Assault Grenades (like Frags) negate the initiative penalty you'd normally get for assaulting someone in cover.
Defensive Grenades prevent a squad that is attacking you from getting a charge bonus.
Krak Grenades (or melta bombs, haywire grenades, tankbustas, ect) or other such grenades that are not defined in the wargear section are used to attack vehicles in the assault phase.

**lord17c**

Ok now I think I have it. The assault grenades keep your Int bonus on the charge into cover, and defense keeps the number of incoming attacks down.

**MrEconomics**

To be clear, defensive grenades remove the bonus attack from charging. Other bonuses, like Furious Charge still happen.

**lord17c**

so, berserk charge with blood claws would still get the +2 attack bonus? my friend and I had a long debate and we ended up going with a no on it.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Berserk Charge modifies the Bonus Attack from Charging, so it would count as the bonus attack instead, and be negated as such (as it says "+2 attacks when they charge instead of +1").

**lord17c**

ok thank you for clearing that up for me.

**Mannahnin**

Moving to You Make Da Call.