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So, for those not in the know, I've been building some truescale marines for a tournament.

But there's a slight problem, they can only fit on terminator sized bases.

And it's been brought up that I may be disqualified because I pose all my models on large bases, as opposed to the 25mm ones that they come with.

So, how would you call it?

Oops, wrong section. Could a mod please rule this to "You make da call?"

Well the only real answer that will be of any use to you is probably "ask the TO" but in all honesty I don't think they'll be okay with it.

Often times you can get away with the 'rule of cool' when you do something awesome like truescale Marines in friendly games, but tournaments tend to be a bit more restrictive.

I think the biggest issue will probably just be the change to the game mechanic of having standard Marines on Terminator bases. It changes everything from disembarkation distances and blast/template vulnerability to assaults and base-to-base issues with ICs.

But you never know, best to ask the TO and find out for sure. Good luck!

DoW

It will definitely make your marines more vulnerable in close combat, hence the reason they popped the terminators up to the larger bases. I have always been told that a larger base that provided is not an issue, like someone modelling an Azrael with the Watcher on the same base. It mainly screws over the main mini. It does, as previously mentioned, make movement a little faster, I had an old terminator chaplain on the old small base, and I couldn't get him into an assault because he was about and 1/8th inch too short. On the proper base, he probably could have made it!

Ultimately, it would be up to a TO...

The one guy who accuses me of being a WAAC player (he spams TWC and Long Fangs... I use Jump Pack Death Company... not what I'd call an accurate assumption) is banking on the fact that I'm not allowed to use larger bases, but I'm hoping the TO will decide otherwise.

Personally I would not be fussed. I find a lot of models are too large to go on the official base, so I put them on larger bases.

If you want to take them to a tournament, it is best to check this kind of point with the organiser before you rock up.

Then when someone says, "Oi, your bases are too large" you can tell them it has been authorised.

run them as terminators and just be very clear, every model is in tda armour hence why they are huge

Oversized bases give measurable advantage when assaulting out of transports. When it is a lone cinematic character or something and the person doesn't put him on the 1.9999" disembark edge to take advantage of it, it can pass.

When it is the whole unit? Kinda hard not to get full advantage of it unless you purposefully only disembarked 35mm instead of 50mm.

When it is the whole army, especially assault armies it really impacts the game. If a tourney is competitive, I am not sure taking a whole army of 25mm models and putting them on 40mm is the best place for that.

Maybe I should be able to have a 30-grot unit all on 40mm bases that can form wall around my whole army to prevent any and all assaults?

Maybe I should be able to have a whole unit of Kroot on 40mm bases who can infiltrate and spread out farther to block reserves?

Maybe I should have a full unit of Terminators on 60mm bases so they can get 49.999mm disembark and then 60mm of distance for almost a whole extra inch assault distance?

All these players would be thrown out in the street for trying it and DQ by many TOs. The argument 'the weaknesses balance out the advantages' ever holds water as humans are smart creatures and can do things in game to mitigate the weaknesses and maximize the advantages of the new base-size.

I would look into 30mm bases first if you really insisting on true-scale marines. At least that would provide minimal impact instead of almost doubling your basesize for your entire army so your giant marines can stand tall over 4foot tall orks and humans.

This is a tough one because I am sure your marines look really good. In a tournament you are really at the mercy of the judges, I would be inclined to allow it at a local tournament. At a larger GT style event I would say they look cool, but you are going to need to do a loganwing or deathwing army.

Ask the TO.

I've talked to the TO, and in order to not hamstring my teammates, I'll be switching over to a Loganwing army (those jumppacks just aren't working dammit!). It's definetly my least favourite codex right now, but it's the only way I can really run my army, which is a shame. Either way, at least I'll be able to play without incurring some fairly big points penalties.

I'd recomment modeling your guys on 25mm bases, with scenic elements like flat rocks, rhino doors, sections of deckplating, dreadnought arms (etc, etc.) overlapping the edges of the base so your guys have somewhere to put their second foot.

But then, I mostly focus on tournament play, and I'd rather see an awesome conversion project like this not be subject to suspicion from opponents and possibly not being permitted by a TO.

My main problem is that everyone in the club knew I was running truescale marines on terminator bases for the last few weeks, but no one told me that it would be a problem until yesterday.

Either way, I plan on not playing with the club anymore after the tournament. They all hate me there anyway. Apparantly, I'm a WAAC player or something like that.

Fafnir wrote:Either way, I plan on not playing with the club anymore after the tournament. They all hate me there anyway. Apparantly, I'm a WAAC player or something like that.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I think people can get the impression of WAAC if someone is a particularly good player, or happens to take inordinate pride in their army. It's hard for anyone to be a gracious winner and even harder to be a gracious loser, we've all been there and it's completely understandable. Alternatively, you might be an insufferable rules lawyer like me who just pisses everyone off! (j/k... sort of)

Either way, I've found it really helps your reputation if you let things go the other player's way once in a while, especially if you're beating them quite badly already. In 'friendly' games, it really goes a long way for sportsmanship if you give someone the benefit of the doubt on a cover save, or a little wiggle room on their assault, or let them change their mind about a movement or facing after they moved on to a different unit.

I know it's not required as part of the rules, but if you're about to table someone, it can make you look like a very gracious winner and it doesn't bruise your ego in the slightest. Just take care not to be smug, that ruins everything!

But then again, you might just be playing with a group of jerks... and there's not much you can do about that. Best of luck either way though

DoW

Using terminator bases is not even the main issue I would see with this army. I would have more of an issue with the height and overall mass of the models. While I can understand that they would look cool, there is a distinct problem if an assault marine could block 50% of a land raider and give it cover. OP, I give you points for creativity, and you should post pics for us to see for ourselves.

I don't use tanks, because the scaling on the tanks would be even worse than it already is on normal marines.

The only units I would be running for said tournament if I were to play BA are a Librarian, Death Company, Assault Marines, and a unit of Honour gaurd. All of them with jump packs. The only vehicle would be a dreadnought.

As for pictures, they're in the P&M blog section. In fact, I'll be updating the thread right after this post.

I quite enjoy your "truescale" marines. I guess I have to ask, though. What is it "truescale" in relation to? Imperial Guard?

As for base size you'd just have to get together with your Tournament Organizer and see if it would be okay. But everyone has already told you this.

Either way, I've always been told you can go bigger, never smaller. As a matter of fact during one tournament a guy brought that massive Forge World Daemon.

silpheedpilot wrote:I quite enjoy your "truescale" marines. I guess I have to ask, though. What is it "truescale" in relation to? Imperial Guard?

Their truescale in comparison to the artwork. Basically more proportionate and overall bigger. A marine in armour is about 8 feet tall in the fluff and artwork, while the models are about as tall as your average gaurdsman (who we can assume is around 6").

Either way, I've always been told you can go bigger, never smaller. As a matter of fact during one tournament a guy brought that massive Forge World Daemon.

There is no rule that says you're not allowed to use larger bases in the rulebook (in fact, the only rule that stresses base size is in the Blood Angel's codex, concerning Gabriel Seth), but the rulebook does suggest that you get your opponent's permission before using anything that's not the standard base that came in the box. I figured that since the increased size of my models and my bases would be largely detrimental to my forces, rather than advantageous, that I would be fine, but sadly that is not that case.

Fafnir wrote: I figured that since the increased size of my models and my bases would be largely detrimental to my forces, rather than advantageous, that I would be fine, but sadly that is not that case.

I agree that having larger bases could prove to be more of a curse than a boon if the entire army had Terminator size bases, and I really don't understand what would be the problem when you can run entire lists of Terminators with Dark Angels Deathwing.

Well, I'll be subbing them as Loganwing terminators for the tournament, but it's not ideal, obviously. Especially since all my models were converted to represent wargear in the Blood Angels codex.

While i understand such project is done with extreme amount of love and care , i sort of understand why they decide against you using them.
If the tournament is focused on painting , by all means i think they would let it go 100%
But if game play is involved ( which the tournament seem to be focusing on ) then i can see the issue with base size difference.

I think they want to keep it clear and fair ( not because they think you are WAAC ) if anything, saying yes to you might encourage WAAC players to do something similar.
By then how would they say no to them? Its pretty much preventing possible problems in the future.

One of the people at the club (the one who plays Space Wolves with TWC and longfang spam) said to my face that I'm a WAAC metagamer and that I'm a bad person. No joke.

I don't even make competetive lists.

Fafnir wrote:One of the people at the club said to my face that I'm a WAAC metagamer and that I'm a bad person.

I wouldnt worry too much on how one person thinks of you. If you know you arnt that type of player, then its safe to say
that person might have some hidden issue against you that he is embarrassed to speak out. Maybe you just paint better than him or something -_-

Other than that , dont hold it against the tournament organizer :'/

Of course not.

I've talked with him, and he's been pretty accomodating about the issue.

But I figure the best way to get out of that is to just remove myself from the situation. I've already paid for the tournament entry, so I'll go through with that, but after that, I won't go back to that club anymore.

I was always under the impresson that you are supposed to use the supplied base as a minimum size. As long as you have no tanks, and are not disembarking you would not get any benefit from having larger bases.

With blast weapons I could see this being a two edged sword though. On one hand, having a larger base makes it easier to have a partial hit. On the other hand, having larger bases means you can spread out your models further apart and maintain the 2 inch limit. So that could cause a situation where you would have less models under a blast than normal.

Larger bases would also mean that by being able to space the physical models out further apart, you might be able to benefit better from cover. TLOS does not mean you can shoot somebody because you can see the base AFAIK. So even though your bases are still all within 2 inches of each other, your actual models might be further apart.

Would it be possible to mark the "true" base size on your larger bases somehow? You could use the "true" base size for maintaining the 2 inch limit and to determine template hits, and have the rest of the larger base just be for decoration for game purposes. Don't know if that is something that would be feasable.

If they weren't scenic bases, that would be possible, but it's not. Additionally, base to base contact would be very awkward to figure out.

I tried a little experiment with chaos terminator legs on 25mm bases. They can fit on them, although parts of the feet tend to hang off.

Not sure about loyalist terminator legs, but you could always try using protruding objects/rocky outcrops to extend the bases a bit.

Although, it may limit the kind of poses you could create.

30mm bases, I would look into it. I have seen other people on Dakka use them for their truescale and it helps with the appearance, looks like it 'fits' without impacting the game drastically the way a 40mm does.

Doesn't solve the LOS issues but I feel base size is harder to overcome where you can guesstimate smaller models for LOS easier.