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Essentially I'm going to probably build my 'sexy khorne' army with lots of conversions. The list has no magic at all and so I'm wondering how it'll fare in 8th edition - will I be totally gimped? It's themed and everything possible has the MOK. I'm not too worried about the baiting due to the random charging in 8th edition but I fear magic. Anyway my proposed list (with conversion notes in side)

Valkia The Bloody, shieldmaiden of Khorne (lelith hesperax with spear and shield and gargoyle wings)

Exalted Hero w/Great Weapon, helm of many eyes and mark of khorne (an executioner-ess in a hood!)

12 Chaos Warriors - full command, mark of Khorne, extra hand weapons (normal)

30 Marauders w/Full command, mark of khorne (normal bloody mob)

30 Marauders w/Full command, mark of khorne (as above!)

10 chaos warhounds (will be modelled with brass collar type things)

4 ogres w/ great weapons, mark of khorne and chaos armor (converted ironguts with khorne tatoos etc)

10 Chosen (Handmaidens of Khorne) w/Full Command, makr of Khorne and extra hand weapons (converted daemonettes w/ swords - they're into excess... bloodshed)

5 Chaos Knights w/ full command, mark of Khorne (the shazbot)

Chaos Warshrine - mark of Khorne (a corpse cart pulled by two oop fleshounds with a bronze bloodletter atop the bleeding, and possibly decapitated, corpses)

Chaos Warshrine - mark of Khorne (as above!)

Depending on the dice roll - you should still have enough dispel dice to stop 1 spell per turn. You'll just need to chose wisely. The big spell that will wreck your army will be cast with irresistible force - so no need to worry about trying to stop it.

The army list is spread very thin right now. Warrior units should be played at 15 strong (some would say 20 strong). Marauders should be played to 40-50 strong. Larger units will be the best defense against magical attacks.

The current weapon choices might be good for conversions, but don't play very well. Warriors with MoK play best with halberds - the +1 st is carried forward from the back rank while the extra attack from 2nd hand weapon does not. The marauders should have something - either flail or Great Weapon.

I'd look into dropping the 2nd Warshrine, the hounds and maybe the 2nd unit of Marauders for points to spend on WoC and upgrades for the other Marauder unit.

OK I can crunch some more numbers and post an update i na bit.

Almost forgot - turn the Exalted into a BSB. Not only will the LD re-roll be handy in stopping unwanted frenzied charges - but the banner is also one of the best places to show off your converting/painting skills.

Sexy Khorne? Yes

So I dig the theme, and I do think that magic-less WoC can probably work - hell, I'm working on a magic free 2k list myself Unfortunately the list you posted is about 2400 points, and actually pretty light on actual bodies in your infantry units, where the real action of 8th occurs (i.e. your warriors are going to be railed before they see combat). And not taking a BSB, with sooooo many frenzy checks, is really a disaster waiting to happen. A final note, you do realize that great weapon + helm of many eyes = striking at initiative order without rerolls? Essentially, you're giving her a +2S weapon that costs 33 points (vs the ogre blade, which costs 40). If you call her huge axe a halberd, then she's actually got ASF (and rerolls vs most things) and is still a S6 beefcake.

Here's my attempt to cut the list down to 2k and get some more power in those warrior meatgrinders:

L: Valkia = 410

H: Exalted Hero - BSB, collar of khorne, helm of many eyes, halberd = 189
Her axe was downgraded from S7 to S6, but now she rerolls her 5 attaks ftw. Collar of khorne brings fluff, a little protection and MR(2) for her unit, all of which seemed good. And I couldn't see why not to stick a flag near her or count her as a BSB in some form (if you're using the model I think you are, her impressive rack would quell my frenzy ), like a massive pile of skulls or general badassery. I know Valkia lets breaks be rerolled too, but the psych benefits are still important to your army, ItP or not.

C: 18 Warriors - MoK, full command, halberds = 348
C: 18 Warriors - MoK, full command, ahw = 348
C: 40 Marauders - MoK, standard, musician, flails or great weapons = 242
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
I had to cut a lot of points, but I also wanted to really strengthen your core. 10 Chosen were doing nothing for me, even if you had planned on warshrine reroll shenanigans, and 12 warriors were also too small to be frightening. Here, you've got two BRUTAL blocks of the finest core troopers in the new Old World, one of which you can tickle with the warshrine anyway. Note that halberds are technically the better upgrade (Reason 1: They benefit the whole unit, vs ahw which just add an attak to the front rankers), but you had listed extra weapons and really, variety is the spice of life, so one of each it is! The marauders suffered cuts to pay for the warriors, but in the process became a full blown horde, ready to wade through a world of artillery and pain and splash against the enemy at some point. At T3 with no armor, they're probably toast but can axe somebody at some point. Annnd finally I split the dogs up (and hope you had planned the same )

S: 4 Ogres - MoK, musician, great weapons, chaos armor = 240
As I was chopping, I realized you were going to have to pick between ogres or knights, and I ended up picking ogres. Knights have speed on their side, which is really important in a no magic blitz army ... but really ogres aren't that much slower. Ogres won me over because they bring something the army doesn't have much of (S6), generally have more attaks (stomp too), and because I decided they would be more able to survive enemy magic. Knights have a 1+ armor but 1 wound a piece, vs these ogres with 4+ armor and 3 wounds each. I figure that if your elite special choice is going to be shot / magicked (probably!), then 12 4+ wounds are preferable to 5 1+ wounds. Buuuut I'm still on the fence: the knights' swiftstride is really important for helping your warriors run stuff down, though I guess Valkia can help out in that department? If you'd rater the knights, 5 w/ MoK + musician is 240 points as well.

R: Warshrine - MoK = 160
Loved the marked 'shrine All the same, 2 of these at 2k is a luxury you can ill afford, as it's a toy unit taking points from the meat of the list. Nice conversion plans though!
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1997

- Salvage

EDIT: Wow just seen that... thanks..

I guess I run the warriors 6 wide? I'm not a big fan of knights/cavalry anyway TBH so that's great!

As I've not played 8th edition the extra hwep attacks not carrying didn't compute (its +1 supporting for the rank +1 for spears and +1 another one if a horde right?)

And yes the doggies would be 2x5 for flanking/hunting/support.

The ogres would be ironguts with appropriate shields on the shoulders and khornate symbols and brass. Basically brass, red, and muscle are the colours!

If that's a better army it also works out cheaper with what I have available and what I have to buy :-) So thanks again.

I checked my spread sheet - yes I had in excess of 300 from the 2 warshrines which didn't get added!

So basically the MR and my 2d6 and THE SHEER VOLUME OF BLOOD RAGED KILLERS is my defence against magic then?

Phototoxin wrote:So basically the MR and my 2d6 and THE SHEER VOLUME OF BLOOD RAGED KILLERS is my defence against magic then?

The collar MR is really to protect the BSB herself, giving her a 4+ ward vs the various sniper spells out there, and the MR boost to her unit is a bonus. Honestly MR does little in 8th edition, as the worst spells allow no ward saves anyway or are hexes / augments that ignore it as well - but it does help vs those snipes. Your main defense against magic is going to be to hope for it to fail (I find it often does), and to smash all your dice into stopping that one spell you really want to stop (assuming it doesn't go IF anyway ), whilst running full tilt at them. Assassinating wizards when able is also part of the plan

On the warriors, 6-wide is the general plan, with the BSB chick able to join whatever unit she feels needs the help. Perhaps the ahw warriors, since they could use a little S6 boost.

- Salvage

Phototoxin wrote:
As I've not played 8th edition the extra hwep attacks not carrying didn't compute (its +1 supporting for the rank +1 for spears and +1 another one if a horde right?)

Troops in the front rank will get their full number of attacks - in this case 2 base + 1 for frenzy +1 for extra hand weapon. The warriors in the back rank are only allowed to add 1 attack no matter what. By choosing the halberd - all of the attacks gain the +1 str (including the 2nd rank). Trust me - there is nothing in the game more devastating than having 20+ st5 attacks going off on int 5. Getting 10+ kills in a single round of combat is not uncommon at all.

Awesome. I think that I will make ALL the warriors have halberds... 18 str5 attacks is probably better than 24 str 4 attacks.

I'm not a fan of the way magic has gone so I think Khorne is the ultimate flip to that!

Phototoxin wrote:Awesome. I think that I will make ALL the warriors have halberds...

And life just got a little blander ...

- Salvage

Boss Salvage wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:Awesome. I think that I will make ALL the warriors have halberds...

And life just got a little blander ...

- Salvage

True - but at least the OP can now make an educated choice in weapon selection. Be a shame to convert a unit of warriors only to find they don't work too well.

Yes I guess it would be bland... but cleavers/ 'executioner axes' and glaives would look cooler than 'another sword'. I might use some Dark eldar wych weapons to spice it up a bit. I'll have to see what bitz I have... I need to get chain for the warshrine so I could get some brass rod too in order ot make the halberds.. yay more conversions... I know that some of the old marauders I have are equpped with a variety of almost asian weapons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question : Valkia allows 12" re-roll of break tests
BSB allows the same gives +1 in combat (stacks wiht unit banner) BSB also allows breaktest re-rolls (a la 7th edition) or does it allow all LD tests to be re-rolled (a la frenzy, panic etc?)

Sorry but my WFB-Fu is weak at the moment!

and my marauders have Great weapons that I've converted to make them more uber (by replacing the flail tops with blades, hammer tops, tseubo tops, mace tops, axe tops etc) *evil grin*

Are horde units of marauders supposed to be 25cm wide? They seem MA-HOO-SIVE!

RanTheCid wrote:True - but at least the OP can now make an educated choice in weapon selection. Be a shame to convert a unit of warriors only to find they don't work too well.

Pish-tosh. While not legal, a frenzied warrior with NO weapon is still fantastic. As a rule I always default to what the OP thinks looks cooler, unless it really is a FUBAR'd option
Halberds are better for various reasons, but I think they're SO much better that they should be taken in moderation

Phototoxin wrote:
Question : Valkia allows 12" re-roll of break tests
BSB allows the same gives +1 in combat (stacks wiht unit banner) BSB also allows breaktest re-rolls (a la 7th edition) or does it allow all LD tests to be re-rolled (a la frenzy, panic etc?)

Sorry but my WFB-Fu is weak at the moment!

and my marauders have Great weapons that I've converted to make them more uber (by replacing the flail tops with blades, hammer tops, tseubo tops, mace tops, axe tops etc) *evil grin*

All WoC: reroll panics
Valkia: within 12" reroll breaks
BSB: within 12" rerolls ALL LD tests, breaks and psych included (along with the +1CR, and giving up 100 VP if killed) (and auto-dying if his unit does break)

I think great weapons are the way to go, and look cooler too. Flails have their advantages but you're going to be in combat for a while once you hit, so S5 all the time is my preference.

Phototoxin wrote:Are horde units of marauders supposed to be 25cm wide? They seem MA-HOO-SIVE!

Yep! Maneuverability could be a problem, but chaos battlelines are usually pretty light on # of units, so shouldn't be too bad.

- Salvage

Awesome.. as it turns out I have 80 marauders and only about 20 warriors. I could drop a unit of CW for the marauders and then have 100 extra points to play with or just buy more warriors...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I need to find a 'khornate brass' colour... any suggestions?

As mentioned I have 2 lots of 40 marauders and only about 20 warriors so i came up wiht this instead:

Valkia

Exalted Hero - Mark of Khorne
BSB, Collar of khorne,helm of many eyes, halberd

5 horsemen, Spears, Mark of Khorne

6 warhounds

40 Marauders, Full command, Great Weapons, Mark of Khorne

40 Marauders, Full command, Great Weapons, Mark of Khorne

18 Warriors, Full command, Halberds, Mark of Khorne

4 ogres - Chaos Armour, Great Weapons, Mark of Khorne

Warshrine - Mark of Khorne

Essentially the horsemen and hounds are the mutable parts...

Butter! Dig it very much, though I'd be sure that the ogres and the horsemen get musicians before the marauders get champions. Also, giving the horsemen light armor would rank higher for me than a 6th dog.

- Salvage

PICS! PICS! PICS! PICS!

Will do - I've just put together the first 40 marauders and am working on arming the 2nd lot of 40!

Wow, I really like your latest list. I also think it's good to go for more bodies since you're magic-less. The khorne theme is fantastic!! So much so that I'd be tempted to lose the dogs, get the MoK on your BSB (doesn't look like he has one?) and those musicians Salvage was talking about.

Then your whole army has MoK... fabulous

BSB should have the MOK in the points, I might not have noted it down. I should probably add a warbanner if they still exist. (not knowing the common magic items is killing me!)

I will probably start a P&M thread at some point.

Yes moar bodies is good I would have ratherd the warriors but it's what I have as I got it in pieces 2nd hand. (and a lot cheaper too!)

Mini wise I have 5 knights and 2 spawn as well as another 14-15 hounds. That should expand it to 2500 eventually.

For the Marauders, I'd suggest splitting a unit out and going with 1x 10 man marauder no command with MoK and Great Weapons. This will allow you to disrupt the main unit you're fighting against with the larger marauder unit. You've got a small 10 man unit with 1 extra rank, strength 5 attacks. 15 attacks on the charge into the enemy's flank should make your enemy think twice about the small unit. If you need an anvil, just give the marauders hand weapons/shields, light armor, and MoT.

The problem with that, boyd, is once they lose a single model they're no longer disrupting ranks (assuming I read what you posted correctly).

than make them 15 guys - add the extra 25 points for them. Its not like marauders are expensive guys. If they don't disrupt you're still looking at a solid number of attacks that make your enemy consider the other unit.

I really like the second list... seems comfortingly familiar for some reason.
Along those lines, if you can figure out how to get the Banner of Burns Where You Pee, it is really worth it. 10 points for flaming attacks on a unit that will WRECK anything that regens (the warriors in my army) is a really good time. RiTides can attest as to what that does to big units of trolls, and likewise other big beasties usually go a lot slower than I5 but with only a little more T than Str5 halberds.

Wehrkind wrote: RiTides can attest as to what that does to big units of trolls, and likewise other big beasties usually go a lot slower than I5 but with only a little more T than Str5 halberds.

Yes, it's just plain deadly! Also for hydras, hellpit abominations, etc...

I might drop the horsemen while I paint them to have more doggies and the burning pee banner! (sounds more nurgley...)

That's probably a good call... the horsemen are also a bit of a liability in 8th, although their glass cannon nature means they can still do a bit of damage at times. Problem is, now whatever they're hitting is hitting them back, too...

well after reading through your list and seeing what everyone is saying i would suggest giving the ogres musicians because you never know when you'll end up in a tie and the musician is does a lot more in 8th, like swift reform etc.

if you are just looking for a unit to flank/ rear charge i would use hounds since you'll be able to get more wounds out of them for the same points as a horseman. well to make the decition easier lets compare the marauder horsemen to the hounds

hounds cost 6 pts and the horsemen cost 13pts + 1pt for spear +6 pts for MoK - so for 3 hounds you can get 1 horseman

horsemen have the fast cav rule so they can move 12 before the game starts but the bad part about that is that if they are ahead of your army they are more likely to be picked off early or your opponent will be able to adjust the facing of his unit so you still wont get the flank.

hope that helped

Update: 80 marauders w/great weapons assembled, based and primed grey ready for painting.


Yes looking at the number I would be tempted to go for doggies over horsies alright. Thanks guys.