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Just reading the rules on this and it says only get a 3+ cover save if the firing unit cannot see the side they're in. So, if a firing unit is in the front firing armour of a tank but can see that firing face fine and also the side one can they fire at the side (it being weaker) without confering a 3+ cover save as the front armour isn't hidden from view.

You can ONLY fire at the facing you are in.

If you are NOT able to see, at all, the facing you are in, you can shoot at a facing you can see, giving a cover save

Ok, lets try again. Firing unit is in the front arc of a vehicle, there weapons cannot damage the front armour but they see if perfectly fine. They fire at the side armour which they can see, will the vehicle get a 3+ cover save?

Reading the rules it says you only get a 3+ cover save is the front armour is completely covered, in this case it's not covered at all.

No, because you cannot fire at a fac ing you are not in UNLESS the facing is completely covered

that's the part youre missing.

Ok I get you. What page is that on where it says you must fire at the facing side you're in and not any other?

Page 60, where it doesnt give you any permission to NOT fire at the facing you are in.

Right well just because it hasn't given you permission to shoot at the arc your in doesn't mean you have to. Doesn't say any where black and white you have to fire in the arc you're in.

It gives you permission to fire at the arc you're in

The game is built around telling you waht you CAN do. So, to turn it around - please show me the page where it allows you to fire at a facing you are not in, and where you can see the facign you are in.

I wont hold my breath.

Ok reading this sentence "...on which facing of the vehicle the shot comes from" . So if a unit is in the front facing arc and could see the side they could shoot, but that shot will always be resolved against the front arc because they're in that arc, is that right?

That's right. The 3+ save is an exception to that.

This is where it can be advantageous to run one of your transports forward to block LoS to the front arc so that you can resolve the shot against side armour.

Get you. I've had some serious rule shafting in the past!

there are some assumptions that are incorrect here.

first remember that obscured is not a 4+ only, it is the cover save of the thing giving the cover. so shooting straight on the front could give a 3+ cover save anyway.

you always resolve the shot against the facing of the vehicle. EXCEPT in the rare instance where you can not see the facing side but can see another side of the vehicle. the only time i can see this really is when the front of a vehicle is behind a building the side is not, and the firing unit is almost straight out from the building so they can see down the side but not the front.

How can you get a 3+ cover save on the front arc if it's obsecured? Obsecured only gives 4+ cover save.?

Yeah getcha on the arcs. Some past confusion I think.

Obscured from a piece of wargear that does not provide a specific value is a 4+

Vehicle cover gives the same value as it does to Infantry. so if you are covered by something that provides a 5+ cover save your vehicle gets a cover save of 5+

If your vehicle is in fortified ruins, for example, and are 50% covered, they would receive a 4+ cover save

mercer wrote:How can you get a 3+ cover save on the front arc if it's obsecured? Obsecured only gives 4+ cover save.?

Obscured gives a vehicle the chance to roll a cover save, but you still determine what that save is the same way as with infantry. Most people play all terrain as 4+, while some prefer to do as the rulebook hints and include varying degrees of cover (some that provide a 5+, some that provide a 3+, for instance).

Also, Camo Netting is a vehicle upgrade that gives a vehicle Stealth (+1 to cover save) and I believe there are other ways to grant Stealth to vehicles.

You can get a 3+ if your vehicle is in hard cover, or if you have wargear such as Cammo netting, etc.

Obscured is not a flat 4+; obscured via wargear is.

Obscured via cover is based on the Cover save value of the conferring cover(page 62 f the BRB, first paragraph after the bullet points).

Edit: Ninjas, damn.

Getcha. We just play as 4+ cover for vehicles as that what it says as it does say it cannot take advantage of cover like infantry can i.d forifications.

But, yeah, camo netting is one.

No, it does not say that. It says if you obscured, when from a piece of wargear that does not specify a save (Ork KFF, for example) , then the save is a 4+

In all other ways your save is exactly the same as the save infantry would get.

mercer wrote:Getcha. We just play as 4+ cover for vehicles as that what it says as it does say it cannot take advantage of cover like infantry can i.d forifications.

But, yeah, camo netting is one.

Well, "vehicles do not benefit from cover in the same way as infantry."

They can still benefit from whatever value the cover gives. If the cover provides a 3+ save, then it provides that to vehicles as well (this is actually stated in a later paragraph, "5+ for a hedge, 4+ for a building, 3+ for a fortification"). You just have to follow the rules for determining cover for vehicles.

Ah I getcha. It just says you need to be 50% cover to get a cover save. So you could be behind a fortication and be 50% covered which gives a 3+ cover save.

So. . .lemme see if I understand this:

If I am firing at a Chimera, and its front arc is -completely- covered, but I can see its side arc (although I am not in the side arc), I can fire at the side arc conferring a 3+ cover (4+ for obscured, then 3+ for the tough angle . . .whatever they call it in the BRB)?

Correct.