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I'm planning on trying (at least once) the MoO. He'd be in a 1250 pt list with 2 hydras, 1 LRBT, plasmechvets, and 2 large power-meltagun blobs. I don't know exactly how I want to outfit the CCS. Thinking ML and 2 GL. Leaving 80 pts for other goodies. The CCS is not a focal point in my army.

Thoughts?

He is terrible in my experience. I played him a few times and never hit anything. Even against a BT foot horde list, I never, not once, hit a model. His attack scatters too much.

YMMV, but I will never use him again.

I've used him, wasn't impressed, like Reece. Ailaros has recently had success with them, but I personally would never use him outside of Apoc. My army is mobile, he can't shoot if the squad moves, and even if he does, it generally will scatter terribly.

I quite like my MoO, code name Goldeneye. He has accomplished a lot of things, like blowing up a monolith on turn 1.

Problem is he's pretty literally hit or miss. I'd say that, if you plan your ccs to be in a kind of stationary support role, you can afford him. He might not do anything, but if he can win you the game for 30pts, it's totally worth it. You can reroll his attack with BiD too.

But yeah, if your dudes are all driving around in boxes he's probably not the best upgrade.

Like the other said, if your CCS is a fixed support unit for the rest of you army then he may be useful. He may scatter alot, but remember....he is essentially a Basilisk shell for 30 points. If you have the points, and nothing else to spend them on, pick him up. He MAY end up ding something, and as long as you don't rely on him, he's points well spent.

As has already been said: If your CCS is acting an an achor and won't be moving for most/any of the game, the MoO can pay for himself. 30pts for an Earthshaker round is pretty good, and whilst he will scatter all over the place, when he does hit something he will make a mess of anything.

L. Wrex

:-) Mine sits in the Command Chimera and he and the Las Cannon take shots... Sometimes they even hit something. Though BS 4 and the fact that I can usually see the target, along with the "Bring It Down" order I've had some really good luck with mine. Besides, it's 30 points for yet another big template that scares a LOT of folks...

Last game I took 2 of them, plus 3 PBS squads and 4 LR Demolishers and a Manticore for a blast spam army... the PBS's outperformed everything. The MoO scattered around and hit a couple of Wave Serpents, but thanks to 2d6 pick the lowest for damage, just did a lot of shaking and stunning.

Definitely worth 30 points though. Too much fun. Only worth it in a dedicated sitting CCS and blast-y army though.

odorofdeath wrote:thanks to 2d6 pick the lowest for damage...

I'm pretty confident ordnance is 2d6 pick the highest though. Right guys..?

Almarine wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:thanks to 2d6 pick the lowest for damage...

I'm pretty confident ordnance is 2d6 pick the highest though. Right guys..?

I'm assuming that is in reference to holo-fields (which most Eldar vehicles can take)

pchappel wrote::-) Mine sits in the Command Chimera and he and the Las Cannon take shots... Sometimes they even hit something. Though BS 4 and the fact that I can usually see the target, along with the "Bring It Down" order I've had some really good luck with mine.

... when they're out of the chimera, right? Units can't receive orders when embarked, even if the order came from their own unit.

Anyways, the deal with MoOs is that they nearly always scatter somewhere, but they nearly never scatter away as far as you think. When you roll a "hit" on the scatter die, the average scatter is only 3", meaning you're still likely to hit the unit you shot at, even if it's not as sweet of a shot. Even when you roll a miss, the average scatter is 7", meaning that if there's ANYTHING nearby, it's not that terribly unlikely that you'll hit that.

Plus, as mentioned, the MoO can take orders. BiD makes it surprisingly likely that said artillery round will land on a vehicle (and then be a S9 ordnance barrage hit once it gets there), and FoMT makes it so that if there are a lot of guys trying to hide in one little nook of cover, you can lay down some pretty serious devastation.

Combined with a lascannon in the CCS, I've been doing a lot of wrecking with this squad, and I've been so impressed with it that it's probably going to wind up a permanent fixture in my army.

As others have mentioned, if you want your CCS to be moving around (like with Straken), then it's pretty silly to take it, but otherwise, it's not 30 points particularly poorly spent, unless your local meta is SERIOUSLY against it (like all eldar, or something).

Ailaros wrote:

pchappel wrote::-) Mine sits in the Command Chimera and he and the Las Cannon take shots... Sometimes they even hit something. Though BS 4 and the fact that I can usually see the target, along with the "Bring It Down" order I've had some really good luck with mine.

... when they're out of the chimera, right? Units can't receive orders when embarked, even if the order came from their own unit.

Which is, coincidentally, one of the dumbest rulings in an altogether rather solid book. It boggles my mind that a unit can issue an order out of the vehicle, to itself, but not to itself whilst mounted in a vehicle. Its so very, very, clumsy but that's what the rules say, so...

L. Wrex

I've played with the MoO, and I'll say for the points, you're better off with a MoF or Astropath. However, against horde armies and a stationary CCS he's great.

On the other hand, when the strike scatters 18" back onto the CCS, it really just makes you wonder why you spent 30 points to hose yourself.

Why are you wondering if you should take what is essentially a Basilisk infantry? He's only 30 Points! Why not? I'm all in for artillery.

Because he is horribly inaccurate and you have to keep your ccs immobile to use him?

If you have the extra points and are playing a friendly game i dont see why not for taking him but i sure as heck wouldnt go to a tourny with him.

Lonecoon wrote:On the other hand, when the strike scatters 18" back onto the CCS, it really just makes you wonder why you spent 30 points to hose yourself.

Actually, he can't do that. Remember, MoO's scatter less than you think.

With one exception, the furthest you can scatter away is 14", and that's got a less than 1/2 of 1% chance of happening. The most expected result is somewhere between hitting the unit (if not the exact spot) you shot at and hitting something immediately next to the unit you were shooting at.

yeah, I was referring to holo-fields, which my opponent had on all of his vehicles.

Yes, he did scatter surpisingly well. Unfortunately, my opponent was not an idiot and spaced his tanks out well. That game, the Masters did very, very little.

Without those holo-fields, though, he would have paid for himself many times over. I will give him another try soon.

odorofdeath wrote:yeah, I was referring to holo-fields, which my opponent had on all of his vehicles.

Yes, he did scatter surpisingly well. Unfortunately, my opponent was not an idiot and spaced his tanks out well. That game, the Masters did very, very little.

Without those holo-fields, though, he would have paid for himself many times over. I will give him another try soon.

Wave Serpents do not have access to holofields. Only Vypers, Falcons, and Fire Prisms. The Wave Serpent energy field would have reduced the shot to S8 Ap3 no bonus dice but the Eldar player wouldn't have had holofield on top of that.

Raxmei wrote:

odorofdeath wrote:yeah, I was referring to holo-fields, which my opponent had on all of his vehicles.

Yes, he did scatter surpisingly well. Unfortunately, my opponent was not an idiot and spaced his tanks out well. That game, the Masters did very, very little.

Without those holo-fields, though, he would have paid for himself many times over. I will give him another try soon.

Wave Serpents do not have access to holofields. Only Vypers, Falcons, and Fire Prisms. The Wave Serpent energy field would have reduced the shot to S8 Ap3 no bonus dice but the Eldar player wouldn't have had holofield on top of that.

... it would be totally over powered to have both on one vehicle ... who wants to bet that they'll do it in the next codex?

MoO are nice but really unless you've taken sniper rifles you don't want him (4 grenade launchers or meltas are the best builds .. though plasma could also be fun)

Well, yeah, and the MoO is not an uber-unit. I mean, he's only 30 points after all. There are just certain armies that he's likely to struggle against (like nidzilla or mechdar, etc.). Usually there's something to shoot at, though.

If your CCS is stationary, go nuts. if it's mechanized, don't bother.

One thing worth pointing out is that this is a single model without much physical equipment required, easily bashed together from plastic kits. I am building an infantry army and my instinct is that he's not really worth it since it's so hard to predict what he'll hit (if anything). But, it is 30 points. So I will probably convert one just to try it out, and if it's a dead loss, back into the foam with him!

Rare is the game mine doesn't pay for itself. Heck, just wreck a rhino or kill a couple of marines and he has earned back his points. One tactic I like to do is use BiD on a drop pod, as it gives me two chances to take out whatever just jumped out of it, plus whatever damage happens if I can blow the pod with the lascannon that is also in the squad.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:One thing worth pointing out is that this is a single model without much physical equipment required, easily bashed together from plastic kits.

Lol, actually, this is something poignant.

The MoO is really only good for foot hordes. If you're making a foot horde, after you paint your first 100 models, you're probably going to yearn for a model that costs more than 5 points apiece. That trip up to the next highest points level is definitely expediated by expensive single models like priests, advisers, and commissars...

Mainly, I see the MoO as a dirt-cheap large blast. I would use him in high-points games where you want to add to your large blast saturation, to really make the opponent feel like they're being shelled into oblivion. I probably wouldn't run him myself unless I had my heavy support already filled with blast-laden artillery.

Seeing Ailaros get some good results with just one blast makes me think he's better than he's seemed, though.

At the end of the day, my CCS carries plasmas and rolls around in a Chiemra, so there's no room at the inn for his kind.

Ailaros wrote:

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:One thing worth pointing out is that this is a single model without much physical equipment required, easily bashed together from plastic kits.

Lol, actually, this is something poignant.

Either you mean 'pertinent', or you take toy soldiers very seriously . . .

I've seen this dude insta-gib an entire unit of tyranid warriors, forcing me to concede. Hes well worth the points in my opinion if you plan to keep him stationary, he only needs a few kills to make back his 30 points. In my experience (I run a variety of nid lists) he is well worth the points.