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Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Scottsdale, Arizona

I hope I am posting this in the right spot, I am new to WHFB, and I was wondering if I could get help from you guys on how to write a good vc army with mostly skeletons as core units. The games I am playing are going to be 1000pts right now

DR:90-SG+++MB--I++Pw40k07+D++A+++/CWD-R++T(T)DM+
2500pt :
3-1-1 0-0-2 2-1-2
0-3-0 1-1-0 0-2-0
1-0-0 0-1-0 0-1-0

 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





This is indeed the right spot. I mean, normally this section is for complete army lists, but it's the best place for your post.
I can give it a shot. I've played against the Counts enough times to loathe them deeply. And to think I once wanted to...play them...

So:

- Protect your General. The Crown with a 4+ Ward and stupidity is pretty decent. Or the 4+ Ward from the rulebook.

- You'll need good magic. The +2 power dice vampire power is really nice, but I doubt you can fit it in at 1000pts. If you can, people probably won't like you. Beyond that, Necromancers are versatile casters, and cheap too. The Vampire should definitely get Lord of the Dead, I believe. The one that lets you raise your skeletons beyond their starting number.

- A battle standard bearer is a toss-up for the undead. Since you're limited to 250pts of heroes, I'd just pass on him for now.

- Core. Skeletons are...probably always worse than Ghouls. Skeletons will die slightly slower than ghouls if your opponent is S6 or more. Not much of an advantage. Still, skeletons aren't bad. They're just not the best.

- Something like two decent-sized (20+) blocks would be nice. You'll want enough of them to stick around for a while, and you'll want a good starting point before you start adding more.
A smallish unit of Ghouls (10-15) would be a nice addition as well.
One or two units of 5 Dire Wolves is pretty standard, just to get in the way of stuff and maybe tie up a unit.

- Grave Guard rock the house nowadays. At larger games, the +1 to hit banner and a BSB with the regen banner on a big block of these guys with great weapons is almost expected. At this level, though, I'd expect that their shields and Killing Blow will see them through.
Fell bats are also a common sight to go war machine hunting and the like.

- At 1000pts, your rare can't be too crazy. It's possible to get some Blood Knights, but that's a very all-or-nothing game. I'd recommend a Varghulf or some Wraiths. With a Banshee, if you can.

Hope that helps.

 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Wraith




Houston

Welcome to an exciting career in necromancy! I play VC as well, using skeletons as my only core. Undead have two equally powerful core choices: ghouls have a better statline, and that sells most people. But skeletons can get spears which I prefer for versitility since you will be reforming often (in low games I think a single large unit will suit your purposes), and they can have a full command, which gives the new ability to quick reform (via the musician) and up to +2 CR to add to the resolution of your huge skel unit (via banner with warbanner). Both of these upgrades really cater to the VC strengths. With a quick reform and Vanhels you can be sure your hoard will always outrank, and therefore negate steadfast of the enemy unit, and then move+charge 12" (or the equivalent of a roll of 8 on your 2d6 charge from the starting point (above average). The +2 CR is huge when you consider how many attacks would be required to get 2 unsaved wounds on most targets.
You cannot let your general die! I prefer to use mine as purely supportive, and the helm of command is a great item as you don't ever want your general in combat. I generally leave mine with lord of the dead and raise dead, unless you want a necromancer with it purchased. Making new units of zombies is a huge advantage and IMO none of the other spells are worth that versitility. They can flank, harass warmachines, get sacrificed, tarpit, marchblock, etc etc.
I also really like the corpse cart as your units will need as much help as possible.
The specials and rares are all very good, and they break down to personal taste. At this low level you will be spending most of your points on a strong magic phase from chars and core, so really you will only be able to fit in a few units, so I would just go with what you think is cool, and some complimentary unit.
I also have a thread here, with some of my thoughts and learnings : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/327127.page

Fantasy: 4000 - WoC, 1500 - VC, 1500 - Beastmen
40k: 2000 - White Scars
Hordes: 5/100 - Circle of Orboros
 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Scottsdale, Arizona

Is it advisable to take a necromancer with tomb blade in a regiment of skellies? I currently have a vampire model, 40 skelies (including those from the battalion; 40 total) , vc battalion box, and a varghulf, where should i go from here to add on when I get to 1000+ pt games?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/17 16:19:09


DR:90-SG+++MB--I++Pw40k07+D++A+++/CWD-R++T(T)DM+
2500pt :
3-1-1 0-0-2 2-1-2
0-3-0 1-1-0 0-2-0
1-0-0 0-1-0 0-1-0

 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





I don't think your necromancer should really plan on doing any fighting. The Tomb blade is okay, but the character is definately not.

I can't remember what's in the box. A Corpse Cart, some skeletons, some ghouls. Grave Guard? Black Knights? Get enough skeletons to field one or two decent sized blocks, 25 or more.

I'll agree with Kiwidru on most of that stuff. I will say, though, that a Vampire Lord can be a close-combat monster. While that might seem like a risky ploy, I'd point out that things that you kill first are of no threat to you. Plus, equipping your general for combat will mean that he won't get crushed when something scary plows into your back field.

Also, skeletons versus ghouls. Ghouls are, essentially, always better. Skeletons get spears (does that cost anything?). Ghouls have an extra attack. So that's a wash. Ghouls have Poisoned Attacks and are T4. Skeletons have a 5+ save, and a 6+ Parry if they don't have spears.
That 5+ save is generally worse than T4 (at S1-3, they're the same. At S4 and 5, T4 is better. At S6 and up, they're the same). The Parry will come into play a little, but not enough to make it a better choice at S1-5.
Skeletons do have the ability to have a banner (can't the BSB join any unit, technically?). That said, there are very few times that Poisoned Attacks are not going to be preferable than a banner. And at those times, the banner will be equally useless.

So, in short: ghouls are better until you get to S6. At that point, skeletons die ever so slightly slower than their counterparts. But ghouls will still kill more stuff.

 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Scottsdale, Arizona

Vampire Lord: Cadaverous Cuirass
Helm of Commandment

Necromancer: Tomb Blade

Skeletons x20: FC
Spears
Skeletons x20: FC
Banner of the Dead Legion
Varghulf

Grave Guard w/ Great Weapons

Comes out exactly to 1000pts, any commentary?

DR:90-SG+++MB--I++Pw40k07+D++A+++/CWD-R++T(T)DM+
2500pt :
3-1-1 0-0-2 2-1-2
0-3-0 1-1-0 0-2-0
1-0-0 0-1-0 0-1-0

 
   
Made in au
Sneaky Lictor






How many Grave Guard is that? Banner of the Barrows is fantastic for Grave Guard, but I don't know how many points you're playing around on with their unit.

The Guide to Cheese:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/A%20Guide%20to%20Cheese 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Devastator




Scottsdale, Arizona

15 grave guard, and like I said, open to all suggestions, so this is just tentative. If I stick the Necromancer in a unit of skellies, particularly the one w/o spears, would that be good? And then should I just have my vampire hanging around so his helm can exert its power over the skellies+Necromancer?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/18 04:40:53


DR:90-SG+++MB--I++Pw40k07+D++A+++/CWD-R++T(T)DM+
2500pt :
3-1-1 0-0-2 2-1-2
0-3-0 1-1-0 0-2-0
1-0-0 0-1-0 0-1-0

 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





Pretty solid, really.

I would drop the Tomb Blade in exchange for some more models and/or an extra spell/protective item on the Necro.

There aren't many places to put your characters to keep them completely out of the way, so yeah, he could go in the skeletons unit just fine.

I'd recommend putting the Vampire in with the other skeleton block, so he doesn't have to eat a cannon ball all on his own. Him with the S&B skellies, the Necro with the spear ones.
Honestly, the Helm might not be as useful at 1000pts. You've so few units that he'll either wind up dead (if he's on his own) or be in combat. I'd give him some protection, a cheap power or two, or, if you can somehow afford it, the Blood Drinker. Which is a ridiculously good item.

 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Wraith




Houston

Hey again, just dropping in to check the progress... And I like it!
I think you would be better suited combining the two skel units... The cost for spears would be negated by the savings on the extra full command. This will maximize your raising abilities and your helm usage...
You will also want the lord of the dead bloodline power, as the +1 to cast and ability to raise units beyond their starting size means you can start raising in aniticipation of collateral damage instead of in reaction...
In your current setup I would lose the tomb blade as necromancers (and mages in general) are terrible in melée and points invested in their combat prowess are wasted.
I would use any remaining points on the grave guard with plans of raising zombies to harass flankers/ranged units, or get a unit of dire wolves if you (understandably) want another deployment / don't want to rely on magic to have a harassment unit.
Best of luck write us some battle reports when you get it together!

Fantasy: 4000 - WoC, 1500 - VC, 1500 - Beastmen
40k: 2000 - White Scars
Hordes: 5/100 - Circle of Orboros
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




You need to give your grave guard a full command with the Banner of the Barrows. I would readily exchange this with your skeleton unit that has the magic banner right now. The GG will tear the place up with the Barrows, I never play without it. Also when you start playing higher point games put the Wight King in the GG unit with the Drakenhof banner (as someone stated before) as well as the FC with the Banner of the Barrows. This gives your GG +1 to hit and regeneration!
   
Made in au
Terrifying Treeman






The Fallen Realm of Umbar

Instead of the necromancer have you thought about taking Isabella instead?
They are both level 1 wizards, but Isabella knows two spells instead of one which gives her a bit more versatility, but at lower points levels what is really the saving grace is Chalice of Bathori, it will make your lord (and Isabella) deceptively tougher as it lets you regen 1 wound in the same way as Invocation of Nehek without the unreliability of the magic phase behind you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/26 10:20:47


DT:90-S++G++M++B+IPw40k07+D+A+++/cWD-R+T(T)DM+
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.

 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut




If you equip your Vampire (I'd advise against a Vampire Lord in 1000 points, takes up too much points) like this:

Vampire; Forbidden Lore, Lord of the Dead, The Flayed Hauberk

you will not need an additional caster (Necromancer) as your Vampire will know an entire Lore (of your choice), which is enough to use all your Power Dice. He will have a pretty good armour save, although he doesn't have a ward save. Best of all: he only takes up 175 points, meaning you have 825 points left for your army! You could add Talisman of Lycni to him, as you currently have no bunker unit for him and he will want to avoid combats.

As someone else mentioned earlier, I would really advise you to take at least one minimum sized unit of Dire Wolves. Their main use is to dictate your opponent's movement. The best 40 points you will ever spend.

The Varghulf and Grave Guard are excellent. As others mentioned, Banner of the Barrows is excellent on them.

As for your Skeleton Warriors, I would advise against taking Spears on them. You will lose their parry save (one of the few things they have over Ghouls) for 5 additional WS2, S3 attacks. If the upgrade to spears wouldn't cost any points than you could consider it, but as it is, I would never take it.
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





...a lil' Thread Necromancy in the Vampire thread?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/05/27 02:42:43


 
   
 
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