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Okay, so the other day me and some friends were playing a 2v2 game, and we came upon an interesting question that we ended up just deciding with a D6 roll that favored Cryx and handed them the game. But what we came up with is as follows::

RoS are lead by Kaelyssa, on their turn the elves do their thing and it ends with Kaelyssa popping her feat.

Cryx are lead by eGaspy, and on the following turn he closes the distance and pops his feat.

Now, Kaelyssa's feat gives her and her army stealth and says they cant be charged, eGaspy's feat summons back 10 small/medium based models that MUST charge.

So, does this mean that the Cryx player wasted eGaspy's feat? Do the cryx summoned model's have no other way into combat besides charging? I sided with the idea that the cryxian models couldn't do jack since they couldn't charge and egaspy's feat says they MUST charge.

Well, either way, i'm just looking for some input to see who was right here.

Ros player had no target for the charge. Cryx player cheated/did not understand the rule properly/Just played his first game. Anyway if that handed him the win it's a shame... always happens at times...

They'd have to charge any visible Cryx targets, is my guess.

I'm with Malfred on this. The rules say they MUST charge, but nowhere does it say "enemy model/unit". So since RoS could NOT be charged, they would have had to charge the only other available option: other Cryx or either of the other two armies.

I don't know the exact rule text, but that would really make the decision.

1) First, the text of the Retribution feat means no matter what the Cryx ruling is they can't be charged. They would not be considered a valid charge target.
2) If the Cryx feat text says models must be placed so that they must charge a valid target, then they would have to be placed with some part of their facing allowing them to charge Cryx models.
3) If the Cryx feat says they must charge and that is it, then they would not have to charge a Cryx model as a failed charge is still an atempt to follow through with that rule charge.

In either case, the Cryx models should not have been able to charge the Retribution models.

Flaim

yep, not only is it a wasted feat, but a detrimental one at that.

knowing that though, as the cryx player i would probably just have all the charging models to charge one target. Once the target model does, everyone else just fails their activation. Best way to minimize killing your own stuff

or... just not pop that feat in that scenario again :p

If a model Must charge and cannot, it forfeits movement and action, REF pg. 47 of Prime, second paragraph

A model required to charge must charge a model to which it can draw line of sight. If there are no models in its line of sight, or if it cannot charge, the model activates but must forfeit it movement and action

As far as the Cryx player having to charge his own models, the brought back models can just charge each other since they cannot be damaged, so he doesn't have to lose antyhing (other than his feat). For future reference eGaspy probably shouldn't feat while Kaelyssa's feat is up.

Incorporeal models can't be charged. Unless they changed that rule.

Incorrect.

Incorporeal models can be charged.

The only advantages to being incorporeal is that you can move through terrain and obstacles, and you can only be harmed by magical weapons/attacks.

Okay, so it's Mark I I'm thinking of.

(I remember it because Blessed weapons could damage Incorporeal models, but Vengers only
had Blessed weapons when they charged, etc. etc. I think they errata'd it MK1)

But you could move an existing model next to Kaelyssa,
then have a brought back model with multiple attacks, or thresher her.

I would say Slaughterborn or Tartarus would be useful for that.

He can bring back named models still? It was just Large bases that were pulled?

Yep, you have a new jar of Tartar Sauce to open up. Won't last as long as the first though.

Whoops. Did they pull large base models for the feat?

I'm pretty sure that was addressed in the latest errata update.

Theory was they were removed because there could be heavy cav coming.

Sorry, I can't confirm. I can't access the PP site right now.

Why would they do that, though?

Vengers are heavy cav with testament, and errata gave
them the option to not use their impact attacks

skrulnik wrote:But you could move an existing model next to Kaelyssa,
then have a brought back model with multiple attacks, or thresher her.

I would say Slaughterborn or Tartarus would be useful for that.

He can bring back named models still? It was just Large bases that were pulled?

Only Sauce swinging on Kaelyssa aint much especially since he's only slightly better than 50/50 on his one attack. Slaughterborn can't attack after charging a friendly (he only gets additional attacks for killing enemies). A Satyxis Captain wouldn't be a terrible idea, but she's pretty low POW. Even then all of this assumes you've been able to get a model next to her and unless you brought some incorporeal along it seems unlikely.

A much better strategy is waiting.

EDIT: Also, when reading the title I immediately thought "This must be about the MHSF and the Coven's feat". That fun little situation has made more than a few Cryx players re-read the MHSF's card.

Malfred, it is correct, the large bases were pulled. Soulhunters + eGaspy's feat got me into Warmachine, 2 months later, it was errataed...sucks but it could kinda mean Bane Heavy Cav....but that's just hoping...

Ouch. Thanks for letting me know.