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I had a rules argument with someone today who claimed that dedicated transports such as Rhinos and Land Raiders for terminators don't count for kill points. His argument was that they are selected as an entire 'unit' and can only provide one kill point overall or something. I just thought I'd get some proof that they do give kill points and what page of the rulebook I could find this on

Ask him if an Imperial Guard platoon with 100 or so infantry and 6 chimeras only counts as one Kill Point.
Ask him if the transport has to stay in coherency with the squad it was bought for.

Bottom line, he's an idiot. Kill points are based on units, not force org selection. If it's a separate unit, it's a kill point. Three Death Cult assassins in a single force org slot equals three kill points.

No they are counted as kill points. If they were 1 unit they would have to maintain unit coherency and move at the pace of the slowest model which would make transports pointless. They are 1 choice but are seperate units. Hence in a DoW scenario a unit of troops in a dedicated transport counts as your 2 troops units you are allowed to deploy.

Ask him under his interpretation how do transports function as they are limited to moving at the slowest speed of the unit. How do you gain kill points for the unit once the unit is destroyed or after the transport is destroyed or after both are destroyed?

But yes every separate unit counts a a KP so for instance the drones on a Devilfish counts as an extra KP on top of the transport, plus any unit being transported (making it a 3 KP tank when transporting a unit).

Thanks guys :3 But I was wondering, is there a page in the rulebook I can point him to?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well his argument was that a 'unit' is a transport and the models embarked in it

don_mondo wrote:Ask him if an Imperial Guard platoon with 100 or so infantry and 6 chimeras only counts as one Kill Point.
Ask him if the transport has to stay in coherency with the squad it was bought for.

Bottom line, he's an idiot. Kill points are based on units, not force org selection. If it's a separate unit, it's a kill point. Three Death Cult assassins in a single force org slot equals three kill points.

Well his argument was that a 'unit' is a transport and the models embarked in it

And we all know units must retain unit coherency and move at the slowest speed of any model in the unit. So ask him what is the point of transports given the above if they are indeed all 1 unit. Must they also both shoot at the same time at the same target? If they are 1 unit then they follow all the rules for being a unit and you get the ludicrous situation that Don_Mondo has highlighted with the guard codex, not to mention all transports becoming entirely useless...

Page 93 - "already embarked into their dedicated transport (which is his second unit of Troops)" - BRB

Zoot wrote: Thanks guys :3 But I was wondering, is there a page in the rulebook I can point him to?

First off is the part ChrisCP pointed out.
Then page 91 under Annihilation Victory Conditions where you get 1 kill point for each enemy unit that is destroyed.

Zoot wrote: Well his argument was that a 'unit' is a transport and the models embarked in it.

This is from the latest FAQ:

Q: Must passengers fire at the same target that their vehicle is firing at? (p66)
A: No, they are a separate unit (albeit they are temporarily co-existing with the vehicle) and so can fire at a different target.

{emphasis mine}

Clearly the transport (including dedicated ones) are separate units.

Zoot wrote:Thanks guys :3 But I was wondering, is there a page in the rulebook I can point him to?

P3 - the definition of a unit.

don_mondo wrote:Ask him if an Imperial Guard platoon with 100 or so infantry and 6 chimeras only counts as one Kill Point.
Ask him if the transport has to stay in coherency with the squad it was bought for.

Bottom line, he's an idiot. Kill points are based on units, not force org selection. If it's a separate unit, it's a kill point. Three Death Cult assassins in a single force org slot equals three kill points.

QFT.

Zoot wrote:Thanks guys :3 But I was wondering, is there a page in the rulebook I can point him to?

Page 92, Multiple Unit Choices, covers this explicitly.
Page 3, the definition of Units, also makes it pretty obvious.
Page 93, the example for deployment in Dawn of War also clearly states it.
Page 66 and 67, the entire section on transports and embarked units clearly and consistently refers to units and the transports as being separate things.
Page 4 of the main rulebook FAQ, all the questions about transports and embarked units also make it implicitly obvious, including questions like...

Q: Can an embarked unit ever be the target of enemy shooting? (p67)
A: No. Only the transport vehicle can be hit.

...and the aforementioned ruling also from page 4 of the FAQ makes it explicit as well:

Q: Must passengers fire at the same target that their vehicle is firing at? (p66)
A: No, they are a separate unit (albeit they are temporarily co-existing with the vehicle) and so can fire at a different target.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1620222a_40k_Rulebook_version_1_2.pdf

thanks guys Sometimes I do wish though rhinos and trukks didn't count for kill points and only the units inside did, they're very squishy :(

Zoot wrote:thanks guys Sometimes I do wish though rhinos and trukks didn't count for kill points and only the units inside did, they're very squishy :(

They're also cheap and awesome - there's no such thing as a free lunch.