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Hi all!
Would LOVE to get some comments on the list i plan to bring for my first couple of games under the 8th ed. rules (me and my friends havent played Fantasy since 6th and earlier).
First game will be a practice game against Wood Elves, the second against Warriors of Chaos.
I have decided to bring alot of basic troops and nothing too nasty, because i want the games to be nice and friendly. But i still want to be building towards a 2500-3000pts list for competitive play. So im not gonna build & paint stuff that i KNOW im not gonna bring when the going gets tough. Because me and my friends generally end up playing really tough armies.

First games against these two players (WE and WoC) im gonna teach them the rules. After that against a new high elf army as well.

So please comment if my list is ok for at few practice games against these armies? I wanna make it for some funny interesting games, that can teach us the fundamental rules. Dont wanna steamroll anyone (not just yet at least...).

FYI the wood elves player (a girl) has a lord on dragon, 8 glade riders (perhaps 16), around 80 archers, 10 or so Way watchers, 20 or so wardancers, 1-2 treemen, around 16 dryads. Maybe 3 eagles im not certain.
The WoC player has alot of stuff. no hellcannons that i know of. He has in the past pummeled us all (repeatedly) with Chaos Knights (5-10), 5 or so Dragon ogres, Chariots, a few big blocks of Warriors, tooled-up Lord on Dragon. (so after the first few practice games against him, im also on a secret mission to avenge earlier massive losses for the skaven!

Well anyway, here is the list have planned for the first few rounds of games.
Its intended to have some CC punch from Monks and rat ogres, some tarpit stuff from the slaves, and some shooting + character bunkers from the clanrats & weapon teams.

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L: Grey Seer (level 4) - Talisman of Preservation & Dispel Scroll (310)

H: Chieftain BSB - Charmed Shield (75)
H: Plague Priest (level 1) - Flail (104)
H: Warlock Engineer - Doom Rocket (45)

C: 30 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Warpfire Thrower (217)
C: 30 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Poisoned Wind Mortar (212)
C: 30 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Ratling Gun (202)
C: 40 Slaves - Musician (82)
C: 40 Slaves - Musician (82)

S: 34 Plague Monks - Full Command & Plague Banner (298)
S: 6 Rat Ogres & 3 Packmasters (264)
S: 6 Gutter Runners - Poison & Slings (108)

TOTAL: 1999 pts

For friendly practice games you have a very killable army.

I hope you WE player has a lot of experience with how to use them. Because they are one of the harder armies to play in 8th. You can win with them but it is more difficult.

WOC may find the knights less effective then before.

Which Lore are you taking for Grey Seer? You are suppose to decide that when you create your army list.

I think you will find that because you do not have the big Skaven toys you will be overwhelmed in CC even with your Rat Ogres and Plague Monks. So try for flanking charges where you can.

Greetings,

Seeing as you are teaching them I reccomend utalising a range of different troop types and effects which I think you have done in your list without going over the top with rares (i.e. none)

I don't play WoC but I do play wood elves and skaven. If she is after suggestions for her list reccomend to the girl to take the wardancers in a unit of 14/15 with a noble or highborn wardancer with blades of Loec. Normally I'd reccomend the highborn (any highborn actually) take the Annoyance of Netlings but against your lsit it isn't needed. Dryads are good in large units and archers need to take out the support units (weapons teams, rat ogres, plauge monks etc) rather than focusing on the big units. Also I think wild riders do really well (if she has any) as they are still good when they don't charge (+1 attack for the rider and +1 attack for the horse when they don't charge).

As for your list I'd change the Plauge Banner for the stormbanner. Will wreak the woodies a bit (their archers hit on a 6+ for a change) and good to prevent some nasty flying. It is a bit nasty but won't really hurt them too much as Woodies don't rely too heavily on their shooting (unless if she is taking 80 archers)

I don't think your plauge priest is really of any use. I'd rather turn him into a unit of plauge censor bearers or some small units of giant rats.

If you aren't putting a banner on the BSB then he needs more protection or killyness.

Apart from that it looks solid. Not over the top with tricks but still a solid skaven list and a few fun tricks. Also the list builds well towards bigger nastier as all you have to do is add the big and nasties.

Da_Viking wrote:Which Lore are you taking for Grey Seer? You are suppose to decide that when you create your army list.

Army book specifically states we don't have to pick until we roll, as Grey Seers are able to pick spells from both lores, ruin and plague.

Im gonna use Lore of Ruin for the Grey Seer and Plague for the Priest.

Thanks for your comments and advice. Much appreciated! Will tell the Wood Elf player about the advice too!
She DOES rely alot on her archers, at least have in the past, which is one reason im not using the stormbanner.

I'll consider dropping the plague priest for some plague censor bearers. I have a ton of these, lol, from 5-6th ed. (i have 20+ censor bearers and around 90 monks).

For when i go to 2500-3000 pts i wanna add a plague furnace though, and probably drop the censor bearers.

Regarding the BSB; i am considering adding something like Armour of Destiny + Shield on him, maybe plus a Halberd. What would you dumb to save those around 50 pts?

And is the protection really needed considering that i plan to bunker him, in a central clanrat block with clanrats on either sides and slaves on the front?

Also, here is my currently projected list for 3000 pts of battle-hardened & more competitive skaven. So if you like you may comment on that as well. I have all them miniatures except the furnace and one catapult/cannon:

3000 point version

L: Grey Seer (level 4) - Talisman of Preservation & Power Scroll (320) [I/we might choose NOT to use the power scroll, if it turns out to be TOO nasty]

H: Chieftain - Battle Standard, Charmed Shield (75)
H: Plague Priest (level 1) - Plague Furnace, Dispel Scroll, Flail (279)
H: Warlock Engineer - Doom Rocket (45)

C: 30 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Warpfire Thrower (217)
C: 30 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Poisoned Wind Mortar (212)
C: 30 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Ratling Gun (202)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)
C: 6 Giant Rats & 1 Packmaster (26)
C: 6 Giant Rats & 1 Packmaster (26)

S: 45 Plague Monks - Full Command & Plague Banner (375)
S: 6 Rat Ogres & 3 Packmasters (264)
S: 5 Gutter Runners - Poison & Slings (90)
S: 5 Gutter Runners - Poison & Slings (90)

R: Hell Pit Abomination (235)
R: Doomwheel (150)
R: Warp-Lightning Cannon (90)
R: Plagueclaw Catapult (100)

TOTAL: 3000 pts

Both lists have a lot of variety, which I like.

I would definitely suggest your BSB has some kind of save beyond the shield, Death magic will be out to kill that little guy, and everyone who can should be swinging at him in combat. I'd say it's a toss-up between a 5+ with the shield or a 4+. If your Grey Seer ever goes without the Talisman, I'd suggest giving him that and the Shield.

I also think the Priest is a worth-while addition. Those Monks are cool, but against anyone T4 or greater, or with better than a 5+ save, they're going to have a hard time. Less so when they're lead by a S6 T5 character. Plus, his magic can really help them out (Pestilent Breath, Bless with Filth, Wither).

For the Grey Seer, remember that you can pick some from both Lores if you want. Generally, I do something like 2 and 2, mainly since they have very different ranges, and swap something out (Vermintide, if I roll it, or Cloud of Corruption/Warp Lightning/Death Frenzy, depending) for Skitterleap or the Curse.

I'd drop a unit of Clanrats as well. Ratling guns are not considered very good, and 30 guys seems a bit small to me. I'd crank up the other two units to 35-40 and get a Doom Wheel. It's not an insanely competitive device, but it's big and smash-y and cooks your own guys. It would probably be a valuable tool in teaching new players about Large Targets and fighting them.

Other than that, I'd say your lists are solid.

Wait. Wait. You need spikes on your Abomination. 15pts, and then he can eat ghosts! And I guess get a 6+ Ward against spells from the Lore of Fire or whatever, but mainly, eating ghosts is always worth 15pts. Denying Forest Spirits their Ward saves is mean, but hey, that's one of the benefits of the Skaven. All of the good stuff is a magic attack.

thanks a lot for all the good advice, to all of you!

I have changed the 2000pts version of my list considering all the advice.

I have dropped the third clanrat block w ratling gun. Upped the other two to 40 each, upped the slaves to 50 each, and added protection to the BSB and the Plague Priest as well.

Have added two small units of giant rats as well, and lost 5 plague monks + 1 gutter runner...

What do you think of these changes? Additional advice? I think this changed list will go over into the 3000pts version as well!

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L: Grey Seer (level 4) - Talisman of Preservation & Dispel Scroll (310)

H: Chieftain - Battle Standard, Armour of Destiny, Shield, Halberd (124)
H: Plague Priest (level 1) - Foul Pendant, Flail (134)
H: Warlock Engineer - Doom Rocket (45)

C: 40 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Warpfire Thrower (262)
C: 40 Clanrats - Musician & Standard, Shields & Poisoned Wind Mortar (257)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)
C: 50 Slaves - Musician (102)
C: 5 Giant Rats & 1 Packmaster (23)
C: 5 Giant Rats & 1 Packmaster (23)

S: 29 Plague Monks - Full Command & Plague Banner (263)
S: 6 Rat Ogres & 3 Packmasters (264)
S: 5 Gutter Runners - Poison & Slings (90)

TOTAL: 1999 pts

Liking it a lot. I'd drop the Halberd on the BSB, so he can use his shield. Or drop the shield, if you want S5 (I can see why you might).

5 gutter runners seems really small, but I've played with 6 time and time again, and they always kill every war machine on the table, or die, and then something else kills them with the time they bought.

I also like to put champions in my units, to accept challenges/conserve models. Nothing like a Pawleader challenging a Bloodthirster to single-combat. The Master-bred Rat Ogre is also a really good Champion model. For an extra 15, you actually stand a decent chance at killing that enemy character.

Finally, I'd suggest dropping the Plague Banner for the Shroud of Dripping Death, to deal with armour on a round-by-round basis. Same points, more times, less effect/time. But that's really up to you.

I do like the list, though. Enough dirty tricks to keep my satisfied.

Maybe i should down the rat ogres to 4 or 5, including the master bred. And then include champions in every unit. Can see that i could get a lot out of challenging nasty chaos lords and other nasty stuff with my cheap champions! I'll play around with the points, maybe i can afford a 6th gutter runner as well.

I completely forgot that the halberd is a two-handed weapon.... lol . Think i'll drop it then!

Ok just to update, i've decided that the 3000pts (end-goal) list that im gonna be working towards is this one:

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L: Grey Seer (level 4) - Talisman of Preservation & Power Scroll (320)

H: Chieftain - Battle Standard, Armour of Destiny, Shield (122)
H: Plague Priest (level 1) - Plague Furnace, Foul Pendant, Ironcurse Icon, Flail (289)
H: Warlock Engineer - Doom Rocket (45)

C: 39 Clanrats - Full Command, Shields & Warpfire Thrower (265.5)
C: 38 Clanrats - Full Command, Shields & Poisoned Wind Mortar (256)
C: 49 Slaves - Musician & Pawleader (104)
C: 40 Slaves - Musician & Pawleader (86)
C: 40 Slaves - Musician & Pawleader (86)
C: 40 Slaves - Musician & Pawleader (86)
C: 5 Giant Rats & 1 Packmaster (23)
C: 5 Giant Rats & 1 Packmaster (23)

S: 45 Plague Monks - Full Command & Shroud of Dripping Death (370)
S: 3 Rat Ogres & 2 Packmasters - Master-bred Rat Ogre (151)
S: 6 Gutter Runners - Poison & Slings (108)

R: Hellpit Abomination (235)
R: Doomwheel (150)
R: Plagueclaw Catapult (100)
R: Warp-Lightning Cannon (90)
R: Warp-Lightning Cannon (90)

TOTAL: 2999.5 pts
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I think this should be a good goal for my 3000 pts army.
Im still only painting my first 50 slaves (25 done now + 15 almost done, lol). So ALONG WAY TO GO! But thats fine.

For 2000 pts - and for my friendly practice version - i plan to drop all the rares + furnace + third slave block + second engineer + a few monks = 2K.

I like it. The only thing I'd consider is the amount of shooting versus the amount of close-combat. Two cannons and a catapult won't necessarily play well with the A-bomb, Wheel, Furnace, Ogre-thing you've got going. But variety is good.

And the unit of three Rat Ogres. I'm not sure how well they'll fair at 3000pts, but maybe they'll go unnoticed.

Other than that, though...looks like a list I'd run.

You got a point about the 3 rat ogres!

I could dump a unit of 40 slaves to get 2 more rat ogres + 1 packmaster?
That would bring the rat ogre unit up to a more decent 5 rat ogres + 3 packmasters.
I might do it, would save me from painting those extra 40 slaves as well. At least i already have 5 painted rat ogres.