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So last night, my dread, armed with a heavy flamer was immobilized. I attempted to fire my flamer at some dark eldar a few inches away, and my opponent stated that because the dread was immobilized, he could not A) pivot his torso, B) pivot the flamer template. We tried to find somewhere in the rules where it stipulates this, but couldn't find it. He basically forced me to only be able to move the flamer template in a 45 degree arc directly in front of the dread.

An immobilized Dreadnaught can not pivot this is true. However, a Dreadnaughts LoS is a 90 degree arc in front of it so unless said DE units were on the side or rear of the Dreadnaught it is perfectly legal to pivot the Flamer template to shoot at a unit that is within your LoS arc.

but his arm carries the flamer. would it not be reasonable to assume, within the context of the rules, that the entire side of the dreadnought is fair game where his arm is located?

All weapons on walkers are hull mounted and have 45 degree (not 90) arcs of fire - see P72 - walkers shooting

There is no rule basis for walkers pivoting at the waist.

Also weapon mount rules and Template weapon placement rules conflict.

Template weapons simply state to place the template over the most enemy models possible(not really conflicting yet, I will get to that)

Arc of fire rules state that you have a limited traverse within which to fire; generally 45*(still not really conflicting, hold on a second)

Now the Template can only be fit 2.5 times completely within that traverse, or roughly 4.5 times partially within that traverse. we are currently unawares of whether the Template must be placed fully or only partially within the 45* traverse.

Sanguinis: Walkers only have a 45* traverse just like other vehicles.,

Interesting scenario, here are my thoughts.

First: How is the weapon actually mounted? Is it really a hull mounted flamer, or should it be considered a sponsor mounted weapon instead? I personally would consider it a sponsor mounted weapon, considering that the arms are pretty flexible.

If it is a sponsor mounted weapon, then we would have to figure out the weapon arc of sight. If it is a hull mounted weapon, then we would have to find out which way it is pointing in order to determine the 45 degree LoS.

And if my opponent is being TFG, I would even argue that the LoS is determined from the center line of the Flame Template, since the flame would spread out after leaving the nozzle.

d-usa wrote:First: How is the weapon actually mounted? Is it really a hull mounted flamer, or should it be considered a sponsor mounted weapon instead? I personally would consider it a sponsor mounted weapon, considering that the arms are pretty flexible.

Scott already told you and pointed you to the pg number where it tells you how it's mounted...even if he got the width of the arc wrong

If it is a sponsor mounted weapon, then we would have to figure out the weapon arc of sight. If it is a hull mounted weapon, then we would have to find out which way it is pointing in order to determine the 45 degree LoS.

The gun is pointing in the direction it's pointing on the model.

And if my opponent is being TFG, I would even argue that the LoS is determined from the center line of the Flame Template, since the flame would spread out after leaving the nozzle.

You have to determine LOS before you place the template, thus from the gun barrel, not the template.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

d-usa wrote:First: How is the weapon actually mounted? Is it really a hull mounted flamer, or should it be considered a sponsor mounted weapon instead? I personally would consider it a sponsor mounted weapon, considering that the arms are pretty flexible.

Scott already told you and pointed you to the pg number where it tells you how it's mounted...even if he got the width of the arc wrong

Totally missed that. I was reading through the vehicle shooting rules in the BRB and didn't look far enough, my bad.

Maelstrom808 wrote:

d-usa wrote:If it is a sponsor mounted weapon, then we would have to figure out the weapon arc of sight. If it is a hull mounted weapon, then we would have to find out which way it is pointing in order to determine the 45 degree LoS.

The gun is pointing in the direction it's pointing on the model.

Yeah, once I got the clarification that it is hull mounted, I would figure that the 45 degree LoS arc be straight ahead of the dreadnought (or actually the barrel/nozzle). I would assume that the LoS arc for each weapon would be slightly different then, starting at each barrel/nozzle and spreading out from there. So if a Dreadnought is immobilized, a model could be LoS of one weapon, but not the other?

Maelstrom808 wrote:

d-usa wrote:And if my opponent is being TFG, I would even argue that the LoS is determined from the center line of the Flame Template, since the flame would spread out after leaving the nozzle.

You have to determine LOS before you place the template, thus from the gun barrel, not the template.

I was thinking about having the actual Template expand past the 45 degree LoS, considering how a flamer works. The Template could be placed anywhere within the LoS arc, but I would argue that the edge of the template could extend past the 45 degree arc, as long as the center of the template does not cross the 45 degree line due to the flames spreading past the actual aiming point.

Entrirely possible for you to be out of LOS for one weapon and in LOS for another.

The template rules do not contradict; while you can only shoot if the target unit is within LOS, placing the template so that parts of it is OUT of LOS is not only allowed, but required if that covers the most models.

Yup. Each weapon has its own 45 degree arc of fire & LOS per page 72. Once you establish that the targeted unit is in LOS of the flamer, you must place the template so that it maximizes coverage on the target unit; the rules require that, and nothing in the rules states or implies that the template can only be placed within the arc of LOS.