Fantasy Player considering Black Templars

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**blak43**

This is sort of the opposite of the way these posts usually go, but I've been playing and collecting fantasy for about a year now and people keep telling me I should start a 40k army as well.

So I've looked through the armys a little bit, mostly just on the GW site and I think that the black templars are the way to go, I like their striking black and white color scheme, the emperors champion is one of my absolute favorite models, the army seems to have a nice up close and personal fighting style which I definately like, and the space marine is just sort of a fun thing to paint, very different from my fantasy armies.

So what I thought I would do is get one of the small rulebooks the black templar codex and the following models to start:

Battleforce
Emperor's champion
Space marine commander
Black templar upgrade kit

So my questions now, would this be a good way to start an army? What are my options for equipping them when I put them together and what would the suggestions on how to equip them? since I know you have to model them as they will be equipped in play. And any other general suggestions would be appreciated of course.

**Xca|iber**

Okay your first step should be to find someone to supply you with BP/CCWs. You will need lots of these. BTs are really not the greatest at shooting, and you'll want the extra attack in CC.

Also, make sure to read the new FAQ. It makes some major changes.

Since BTs aren't really a top-tier army, you'll have a much harder time playing them against skilled opponents (that is, any opponent more strategically/tactically savvy than yourself - moreso than if you were playing a more up to date army). However, they have some cool things going for them.

Fun and powerful units include:
Mixed TH/SS, LC Assault Terminators with Furious Charge (and preferred enemy from the Emperor's Champion's Vow). They can go toe to toe with quite a diverse selection of opposition and it's always fun to tell your opponent "I've got 12 power weapon attacks at S5, I5, that reroll hits and wounds, followed by 9 S9 thunderhammer attacks that reroll hits."

Also, Land Speeder Typhoons are amazing, since BTs get them for a 20 point discount. This is relatively new since the FAQ.
Beyond that sample, there are a lot of examples where BTs get great wargear for cheap, meaning you can put together a fun and effective force that's fairly different from lots of other marine armies. The converse is also true, there are a lot of meh options as well, but you'll figure those out as you go along.

Basic conclusion: You can go two ways with Templars. Lots of infantry (fun, but getting weaker with every new codex that is released), or vehicles. Either way you want to put a lot of close combat weapons on the table.

**timetowaste85**

The Chaplain/Master of Sanctity's command squad is also amazing. It's more fun to tell your opponent "I have a squad that will have 52 preferred enemy attacks with furious charge if you charge me." My opponent just shut his eyes when I told him this and removed his last couple sanguinary guard from the table at this point

The broken squad that I speak of is as follows:

1.Master of Sanctity w/ combi-melta and adamantine mantel (no instant death), frag grenades, bolt pistol
2. 8 command squad models with Chapter banner, 2 meltaguns and holy relic
3. Techmarine with servo harness and bolt pistol

The squad needs to buy the "furious charge" ability and pay extra points for the MoS and the Techmarine as well and it should go in a drop pod or a land raider if you have the points. The banner gives it +1 attack AND counter charge, MoS gives Ld 10 so counter charge is almost a given and you have furious charge on top of it. If you pop the holy relic (one use) you gain ANOTHER attack per model. CCW+BP+charge+banner+relic=5 base attacks for the squad (4 for meltagun models) for a total of 38 attacks, 5 power weapon attacks for the tech marine AND his 2 power fist attacks bringing you up to 45 and 7 attacks for the MoS (3+BP+banner, charge, relic).

**pdawg517**

If I am not mistaken, you do not get Furious Charge from counter attack.

**timetowaste85**

I don't have my rulebook on hand, but I'm pretty sure Furious Charge goes through whenever you charge, and counter charge counts as you charging back at your opponent when he charges you. Anyone have a rulebook ruling on this?

**Xca|iber**

SW FAQ clarified this. You DO NOT get FC with CA.

**blak43**

Ok, perhaps I wasn't quite clear enough, I know like nothing about 40K and if I were to get the starter set of 15 space marines, how should I assemble them? What options would I have between that box and the other stuff that I could put on them, same vein of questions for the commander and scouts, even the assault marines Though I think there are less choices there.

Also what's a Master of sanctity? Do I need a special model for that? And if so that would probably be more of a long term thing to add in.

Some of these questions I'll probably ask again at my local GW and I still might not go through with my little plan.

**MechaEmperor7000**

A Master of Sanctity is just a special term for a senior Chaplain. The normal Chaplain model should suffice.

As for your core purchases, a Battleforce is a must, as is the Black Templar upgrade sprue. The Battleforce provides you with a core force of 15 normal marines, 5 Assault Marines and 5 scouts, all of which you will be using. Scouts are used as Neophytes in the BT army and are largely abalative wounds for your power armored Initiates (who are normal marines). The Upgrade sprue provides you with a good amount of close combat weapons, as well as some nice decor.

You also need to get an Emperor's Champion, as that's a required purchase for any BT army (it's a manditory choice, so there's no way around it). You can either get the metal model or convert one of your own (take any power armored space marine, give it a ornate sword, and you have a champion). While it is a SM army I would advise against buying the Black Reach set, as you probably will only end up using the Terminators and Dreadnought (which you can get for cheaper on bitz order sites). The Tactical squad in it is preset to use bolters and missile launchers, something you probably dont want on black templars due to the fact taht they will start running (either towards or away from the enemy) as soon as they take casualties.

**timetowaste85**

You will want to get, as previously stated by others, as many bolt pistol/close combat arms as you can get for a Black Templars army. Also, a Master of Sanctity is just a high level chaplain: any chaplain model will do for him.

@Xcaliber and Pdawg: just looked at the SW FAQ. Thanks...I think. You kind of just killed my Black Templar Bomb-Squad. It worked so well before too...

**MechaEmperor7000**

Consider at least 1 Land Raider Crusader. It can be used to transport almsot any unit in the book and is a great fire platform in close range (Multi-melta for taking out tanks while the Hurricane Bolters and Assault Cannon can decimate infantry, both of which can assist your BTs before they charge in).

**timetowaste85**

I believe the Black Templars have the best version of the LRC too: extra armor AND multimelta built in for just the cost of the armor. Plus they can get the blessed hull and ignore the bonus that is conferred by "lance" type weapons

**blak43**

Ok, so what I'm hearing is to maybe go for a chaplain instead of the commander for my HQ choice, I was definately going to get the champion because not only is he mandatory and killtastic but also one of my favorite GW models.

I'm also getting the impression that maybe I should go for 2 of the chapter upgrade sets so that I can get even more of the CC weapon sets, though I'll definately ask at my flgs to see if anyone can slide me some chainswords and bolters they don't need.

Oh and also for the chaplain hom much of the suggested equipment would I have to represent on the model?

**timetowaste85**

Use the Dakka swap shop too for the arms-guys'll trade fantasy for 40k no problem. May take some time to get what you are looking for though. And yeah, I like the Chaplain for the honor guard that he can get BUT the Emperor's Champion has an ability that grants army-wide preferred enemy, making a big part of the chaplain obsolete. I just liked my honor guard unit the way I had it built, but a Marshal is great too for his Leadership 10 with re-roll army wide: makes those consolidation tests a LOT more user friendly. And he goes VERY well in terminator armor with a storm shield and Thunder Hammer, now that the FAQ went through. Black Templar terminators, of both varieties, are amazing-shooty ones were great already because of 2 assault cannons, but the close combat are even better than before: preferred enemy, furious charge and updated weapons. Remember to look at the FAQ though: some points went up, some went down, some got better, some got worse.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I just read over the rules for the EC. Given that he has no option for a Jump pack, consider getting a LR Crusader just for him to ride in (along with a squad of initiates to back him up in assault). He is dangerous in close combat, but can falter if left in the open (especially if someone is able to pick him off with a lascannon).

**blak43**

Ok, so a bunch of good information about black templars, still sort of considering, how does a standard space marine army compare in terms of playstyle and such?