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So, with the new OnG book coming out, I figure it might be worth taking a look at magic items, both Common and Orc-specific. Due to not having the book on me, I might be a bit off with some OnG magic item names / effects, so excuse / correct me if so.


First, OnG stuff:

Battleaxe of Last Waaagh! (Full Lord-kit): +D6 Attacks and +D6 Strength (+1 for the first round of combat), at -D3 (half of what the bonus D6 rolled) Weapon Skill. This weapon, to me, is not worth it. For a Lord, you don't get anything to the strength bonus after a four (and, really, you're not getting anything practically to the strength bonus after a two). Attack bonus is decent pretty much whenever, but the issue comes in that you don't want a 5-6 result (if a Black Orc) if you want any chance of hitting someone in hand-to-hand (since many common troops are WS4, and without having hatred a 5-6 means you'd be hitting them on 4's now instead of 3's).

The -D3 Weapon Skill penalty is the main problem against the magical item. Looking at averages, +3S and +3A would be the average normally, or +4S and +4A, which at 100pts is sorta worth it insofar as a character getting 7-8 attacks needing 3's and 2's. The potential to have S10 A10 would be amazing, really, if not for the problem that if you reach such a number, you're looking at either a WS3 or WS4 Lord (depending on Orc type). This also ruins its practicality for a Great Shaman, reducing their WS to a point that they're hitting Clanrats on 5's (meaning you can't use it to provide an Orc Shaman a slight edge in combat to coincide their magic).

Typically, I would say "not worth it". Unless you're putting it on a Duplicate Lord (large game, at least 3.5K or more) and planning to fight an enemy with typically low WS scores (Goblin Army, Undead, etcetera), I'd say to pass on it.


Dwarf-Bane Magic Weapon (Basha's Axe of Something Something, full hero kit). This item is a bit more worth its point cost, but still iffy to consider. The "natural" benefit to this item is +1S, +1A, and Armor Piercing at the price of a Hero's full magic-point allotment. You also get the +1 Strength for "Choppa", mind, so this means that at the end you're looking at +2S, +1A, and -3 to the save in addition to your "base" strength's penalties (for the first round, latter rounds will be +1S, +1A, -2 Save). Now, while this is great against heavily armored factions like Chaos Warriors and Dwarves, this typically is of minimal gain against enemies such as Clanrats or Swordsmen (actually, against such enemies, you might as well have not even taken the weapon: Even the hero, for the first round, will be hitting on the same odds, wounding on the same odds, and taking away saves at the same odds, meaning essentially you paid fifty points for a +1 Attack weapon).

Now, against Dwarves, this bonus gets even better, and becomes a "worth price" purchase. When fighting Dwarves, you get Fear (not really much of a boost), and the bonus' to Strength and Attacks doubles. So, in other words, +2 attacks at +2 Strength (+3 the first round), with -3 to saves (-4 the first round). Fighting a Dwarf Durability-Thane or Durability-King, you can very well do some hurt wounding on 2's and essentially negating their save (being a grand total of -5 to -6 armor save, depending on whether it's on a hero or lord Orc).

However, it's worth keeping in mind that the bonus is minimally useful for a Lord against non-character Dwarves. While a Hero benefits from now always wounding on 2's, the Lord would get the same thing from a general +1S weapon anyhow, and again in regard to armor saves the presence of an Armor Piercing rule has minimal bonus (S6 being enough to negate the save of any non-Gromril armored Dwarf).

I'd typically propose this magic item when fighting someone who has decent toughness, high-save models in their list. Chaos Warriors, Dwarves, against those two armies you can really look to maximize the item's bonus'. Otherwise, while technically not terrible for its price, the item loses out on a lot of its bonus'. If planning to use the item to provide active combat resolution to a unit, slap it onto a Hero. If looking to use it to kill characters, meanwhile, put it on a Lord.


Next comes the Magic Armor, Armor of Gork I think (Again, full Lord's magic kit). This item provides +D3 Toughness, and gives the Lord D6 Impact Hits when he charges into combat. +D3 toughness, when fighting anyone reliably S3 or lower, is of zero gain. When fighting S4, +1 to Toughness would provide the exact same bonus as +3. This mostly comes in useful when fighting someone of high strength, but the problem there is at that point you're looking at a Lord that has a very poor armor save and thus was banking on the Toughness in the first place (so it doesn't protect against infantry in the line, and barely protects against strength-build characters). D6 Impact Hits is the only reliable advantage that I can see for the item, and the issue there is that you might be paying 100pts for an item that only gives you +1 S5 attack the game (if you can only charge once directly with the Lord).

I'd typically say pass on this armor, unless playing for fun in which case putting it on a Boar Warboss leads to the fun possibility of 2D6+1 S5 Impact Hits from a single Chariot, followed by two S5 Boar attacks, 4 S6 Warboss attacks (Or can a Chariot character use two hand weapons?), and the Orc crewman's S5 attack. 3-13 auto-hits at S5, three WS3 S5 attacks, and four-to-five (depending on how additional hand weapons work for Chariot Crew) S6 attacks. When combined with "Sneaky Stabbin'" spell and hitting in the flank, this can be cheesily delicious for a fun game (I say for a "Fun" game as you're still putting down 300+ points for a Chariot that has only a 4+ Save to its name for defense).


Next, Arcane! Lucky Shrunken Head takes all a Hero's magic limit (seeing a connection people?), and must be on a Savage Orc Shaman / Great Shaman. Now, on its own, this item is worthless for its price: Essentially +20pts for a 5+ ward save. Why is it one of the very few items I consider worthwhile, then? Simple: Don't consider it a magical armor upgrade to the Shaman. Consider it almost like a 40K Chaos Marine Icon Bearer, which provides a Mark bonus to an entire unit. The Shaman's Shrunken Head boosts all Savage Orcs stuck in the unit with him (Even Warzagg) to have a 5+ Ward Save as well (Wurzagg getting a 4+). What this means is that while the item may be dramatically overpriced if sticking the Orc Shaman on his own / in a generic Orc unit, in a Savage Orc Unit you might instead see it as a 1-2 point upgrade (per model) to increase everyone's Ward Save from a static 6+ to a static 5+!

This is particularly fun to combine with a second hero (typically a Big Boss or Warboss), with Obsidian Talismans from the Common Item magic list. The MR(2) Talisman means your unit has a 5+ "Generic" Ward with a 3+ versus Magic, and buying the MR(3) version gives you a whopping 2+ Ward versus magic that allows Ward Saves (meaning a unit with both of these would essentially have immunity to incoming magic attacks, a 3D6 magic missile being lucky to kill more than one model a turn).


Next, Magic Standards.

First, Mork's Spirit Totem. Let's just say it costs twice as much as the old one, meaning it requires a BSB now to be taken. No longer is the banner +1 Dispel Dice for every rank in the bearer's unit: Instead, the bearing unit gets MR(D6) from the banner, and any magic items in base-to-base with the wielder of the banner cease to work entirely.

Now, at first, MR(D6) looks nice, as does the negation of magic items. But take a look at it again: You can't put a magic item-bearing character near the BSB, as you risk their items failing to work. The BSB is not in any position to take advantage of this change, seeing as they're only getting 3 S5 (in the first round) to 3 S7 (if a BOrc choosing their GW) attacks, which will probably be going after the bearer of the magic items as well (since I3 is slow). Furthermore, MR(D6) doesn't become particularly worth it until you're getting 4+ on the roll, as anything else could be bought from generic magic items on the character for the same cost, and stacking it with someone's own Obsidian talismans is further redundancy (as, while combining it with an Obsidian Lodestone means you'll practically always have a 2+ Ward versus magic, you put down two hero slots and almost a lord and a half's worth of magic items for the combination on a single unit).

If the banner could be stretched over multiple OnG units (for example, D6 MR to the bearing unit, D3 MR to friendly OnG units within 12", or even just 6"), then it might be more worthwhile. Similarly, if the anti-magic item had a "bubble" effect, similar to a Ring of Hotek but for Magic Items instead of spells, again it might be more worthwhile. As it is, you're putting down over 200pts to give a single unit MR(D6), and often times you're not looking at these points made up. Overall, pass.


The Spider Banner, well, it's 170% the old one's cost, and only a slight upgrade too ("Slight" insofar as "If you already have poisoned attacks, they're boosted to a 5+ now). For the most part, since you're looking at putting this on a T4, WS4, 6+ save Gobbo, I'd say pass. The main time this can really come to shine is a mega-big Common Goblin brick, armed with both Spears and Bows, hopefully boosted by the magic spell that can provide them an additional poison (and, ergo, 5+ Poison Attacks) as well. In this case, the banner can actually show its points - and then some! 50 Common Goblins with Short Bows, for example, in Horde Formation, are looking at 35 shots, which at 5+ poison mean 11-12 Poisoned Hits in many circumstances (such as a Stand & Shoot). Added in to close combat attacks, provided no-one is smart enough to kill the BSB, you're now looking at 40 hand-to-hand attacks (well, actually, most probably you'll be looking at 28-32) that again will get another 11-12 auto-wounds. The overall cost for this combination is a little under 400pts, so - while expensive - can be useful in some situations.

Basically: Either you need to take a unit designed with the banner in mind, or don't bother with it. It's not a "casually competitive" banner. If taken for fun, it's taken for fun but most likely only there for fun. If it's taken for competitiveness, you better have the models on hand to take full advantage (Bonus Points: Convert the 50+ Gobbos to be Forest Goblin "Elites").


Last of the Banners, the Bad Moon Banner. You may only take it on a Night Goblin BSB, and would take up all their basic magic point allotment if they chose not to have a banner. The unit that has the Banner gets Stubborn, Soft Cover, and a Dangerous Terrain frontage (meaning units that charge against the unit must make dangerous terrain checks on their front models).

Now, for a Night Goblin unit, this advantage is mediocre. You're putting a BSB in a Night Goblin unit, to increase its durability versus shooting? Typically, unless playing an all-NG army, you're not going to have a NG unit that you that desperately want to cut a further 16% of all incoming shots away from. Stubborn, meanwhile, can be readily gained without having to invoke the banner (At the same price, you could buy another 16 Night Goblins, which very probably would mean 2-3 more ranks contributing toward Steadfast), so that's another advantage that's so-so. Seeing as if you have this banner you're probably not going to be deployed in Horde formation (as you're not going to have a Poison Banner backing you up), the dangerous terrain means you're looking at maybe 5-6 models testing for Dangerous Terrain the entire Game (as Night Goblin units are rarely the sort to push someone back from a charge, let alone be in a position to push someone back then take a charge again).

However, there's something worth noticing in the description: It only states that Night Goblins may carry it. Though this means you would have to put the BSB in a corner otherwise (all on his lonesome with a measly 2W, WS & T4, 6+ save), imagine this banner now on a unit of Black Orcs, or Big 'Uns, which now have their own magical standard to boot (so possibly armor piercing, or flaming attacks). Now you're providing the bonus to something that could make use of it (Saving 9-13 point models with the Soft Cover instead of 3pt models), giving Stubborn to something that might otherwise not have it (Being much less readily capable of affordably buying things such as a fifth or seventh rank than Night Goblins), and looking at a unit that both can push off multiple chargers (due to increased offensive power) and make use of a wider frontage on average (thus hitting more models that way too).

Now, in this case, it's worth keeping in mind that the Night Goblin will only live as long as it takes the enemy to look at it. A Magic Selection spell, dedicated attacks in close combat, something else, T4 W2 6+ save will not live long when under duress. Your main goal is to see that the Goblin never is under duress, and that you can maximize its effectiveness before it croaks (Even if you save only nine BOrcs from shooting with the banner's presence, for example, you just made up its points and then some in the process).


Finally, enchanted items, you have the Skull Wand of Kaloth (yes, it's Enchanted now). This costs 150% a Hero's magic allotment, and can only be on Shamans. The user of this item causes Terror, and can make one model in base-to-base at the start of a turn (note: You don't need to roll to hit now) take an unmodified Leadership check or die automatically with no saves of any sort.

When you look at direct points for the equipment, this is essentially the same as if you bought a Skull Wand now with a Mask of Eee! (only 10pts more). Now, the problem is, that you're looking at a 75pt magic item that relies on the enemy having a poor leadership. Against some armies, for instance Beastmen, this isn't too hard: There's no shortage of multi-wound models to continuously use this item on, with a low leadership to boot. Others, however (such as Elves), good luck getting it to ever go off successfully with.

Last edition, you might work slightly better with how "Unmodified Leadership" works. In 7th, Unmodified Leadership for a model was just that: The leadership on their profile, sans bonus' and penalties. This edition, however, the unmodified leadership for someone is the highest unmodified leadership in their unit (without things such as Inspiring Presence). What does this mean? That Ld6 War Hydra? Actually Ld8, versus the Wand. The Ld7 Sun Dragon? Actually Ld9. Thus, you're stuck hunting "wild" monsters in many armies, and in many instances a Monster that is run on its own will have at least a decent leadership to it (the Ld. 8 of a Hellpit Abomination and Ld. 9 of a Jabberslythe, for instance). When combined with the BSB's ability to re-roll all Leadership stuff now, you'll looking at an item that could have been nasty last edition with an auto-hit "Leadership or Die", now meaning that against the same model the odds of success decreased dramatically.

Ex: Last edition, a Hydra would pass about 15/36th their tests, or in other words could be expected to fail almost 2/3 the time (7/12, actually). This edition, that same Hydra will pass about 26/36 when outside a BSB's range, and about 88% of the time (or almost 32/36) the time in 8th Edition (so now has a failure rate measurable at about 1/9th the time).

While statistically there's always a chance to make up the points and then some with the item, killing a Star Dragon before it can strike due to a very unfortunate roll for the HElf player, statistically you cannot reliably expect the item to work. If you take this item, it's fair to keep in mind that it'll typically be a "One-in-nine attempts" chance against many types of enemies during a best-case scenario, and in others might be less than a third of that. Not going to say it's never worth taking, with the "one in a million" shot in mind, but I will say to keep it at home in many competitive scenarios.


I'll try to address Common Items at a later time for OnG.

Nice, and extensuve summary, it seems you got most things right to.

Aside from this:

Minsc wrote:Last edition, you might work slightly better with how "Unmodified Leadership" works. In 7th, Unmodified Leadership for a model was just that: The leadership on their profile, sans bonus' and penalties. This edition, however, the unmodified leadership for someone is the highest unmodified leadership in their unit (without things such as Inspiring Presence). What does this mean? That Ld6 War Hydra? Actually Ld8, versus the Wand. The Ld7 Sun Dragon? Actually Ld9. Thus, you're stuck hunting "wild" monsters in many armies, and in many instances a Monster that is run on its own will have at least a decent leadership to it (the Ld. 8 of a Hellpit Abomination and Ld. 9 of a Jabberslythe, for instance). When combined with the BSB's ability to re-roll all Leadership stuff now, you'll looking at an item that could have been nasty last edition with an auto-hit "Leadership or Die", now meaning that against the same model the odds of success decreased dramatically.

The way unmodified anything works is actually highly dependand on the way it is worded as the FAQ said.
Q. For characteristic tests, is the best value in the unit always
used? (p10)
A. If the unit is required to take a characteristic test, the best
value in the unit is used. If every model in a unit is required
to take a characteristic test, then each model uses its own best
value instead.

So to use the hydra and moon dragon examples you gave.
If the wand says the model takes the test then the hydra would be stuck using its profyle LD but the dragon would still gain a benefit due to him and his rider being the same model.
And if it sais the unit takes the test instead then the hydra would get to benefit from the handlers LD.

I'm not so sure if you can stack the Armor of Gork's impact hits with the impact hits from the chariot. I want to try this build out though:

Savage Orc Warboss
Spear, Shield(?), Armor of Gork, Wyvern

I don't remember if savages can take shields, but he has at least a +4/++6 save.

On the charge:
-D6 S5 impact hits
-5 S7 attacks
-3 S6 poisoned attacks
-D6 S6 Thunderstomps

Pow!

As long as the armor isn't models on foot only i thnk it would indeed stack.

No reason they don't stack, but that armor is really overpriced. It would be worth it on a black orc warboss on a boar as he has decent armor vs rank and file 3+ and almost everything, GW wielding maniacs included wound him on a 6 most of the time. Makes for a prety tough guy and gives him a better shot at getting that important charge but the boar units are prety overpriced as it is and in a basic unit he is asking for a cannonball.

The best chappa (+1 str, +1 attack) is probabally the only really good one.

I thought the banner that causes dangerous terrian caused it for all models in a unit that charge the bearer. Makes it far better and almost worth it depending on where you put the banner (charge a 40 man unit into it and watch them fall down and kill themselves).

HoverBoy wrote:As long as the armor isn't models on foot only i thnk it would indeed stack.

We'll probably see a FAQ on it shortly after the OnG book comes out. There's a few things in there already which will need clarification.

Thanks on the information on Leadership, though. I always saw the first sentence, but not the second.



Common Magic Items now!

Magic Weapons:


Giant Blade - Lord Only. I can only really suggest this for Goblin Warbosses, predominantly Night Goblin, and a gimmicky BOrc Character. There's a few reasons for this:

Pros:

+3 Strength. Being on a character, this means at least S7, S8 on Orcs (S9 the first round!). Barring enemy monsters, and often even then, this is wounding on 2's.

-3 to enemy armor saves. You're already -1 to -2, with this you're ranging from -4 to -5 (-6 on the first round for Orcs). Unless facing heavy cavalry or a character, this is often no save (Chaos Warriors & Iron Breakers are only Parry Saves at this point, and for the first round even a 1+ save fails to exist when on an Orc Warboss).

Cheaper than the Battleaxe. The Battleaxe can get +D6 attacks to boot, and 50% of the time surpasses the Giant Blade's attacks to boot, but it's almost twice the cost. You're also looking at a penalty to Weapon Skill, and the fact that any roll after a 4 is pretty much useless for the bonus to strength (while causing penalties to WS still).

Goblin-allowed! Since you can have I5 Warbosses, I8 one round if you take a Potion of Speed, you can actually strike before a bunch of enemies with this. WS5 Warboss = 3's to hit, 2's to wound, -4 to saves for common enemies.


Cons:

+1 Strength over Great Weapon. For an Orc Warboss, the differences between S7 and S8 are often negligible (2's to wound T5 or lower, ignores armor 3+ and worse), so another 54pts for that and "magic" as well is a minor buff. More GW loss for Night Goblin Warbosses (who are S4 base instead of S5, as well as I5 instead of I4), but for Orc Warbosses you might as well go Great Weapon and buy Helm + Boar + Heavy Armor + Ward gear (Or not even take the Boar, especially if BOrc, letting you choose between 4 S8 WS7 attacks, 5 WS7 S6, or 4 WS7 S6 w/ 3+/4++ save).

Lord-only. At the point cost it has, you're only putting this on Lords. Even the cheapest Lord is 55pts, and for Orcs you might be throwing down nearly (if not over) 200pts with just them and this weapon.

Not an amazing blade, but if you can find a good combo to slap this onto a Lord for you've now got what amounts to 2+ to wound and no-save on non-characters / heavy cavalry. It also is magical attacks, so a minor leg-up over a Great Weapon there. The catch being that magic attacks are much less important this edition, an Orc is about as offensive (in game terms!) with a Great Weapon as this blade, against most regular troops the strength bonus won't matter (Actually, S9 the first round only really matters when fighting a durable enemy character or a STank, which you won't be hurting much anyways through a Giant Blade) and so on.


Sword of Bloodshed - Lord Only. The Sword of Bloodshed has a few advantages and flaws to it. As a pro, it's +3 Attacks: With a Savage Orc Warboss, you just doubled your attacks from its base on the Profile (SOrc with 8 attacks / turn). For an Orc, this can be nasty as you're looking at 7-8 WS6 (or WS7) S5 attacks (so wounds often on 3's or 2's), S6 the first round of Combat (Meaning pretty much promised wound on 2's when attacking RnF). For a Goblin, much less helpful as you're only S4.

Same price drawback as the Giant Blade. If you consider a Giant Blade a Goblin Magic Item, the Bloodshed Sword is an Orc Magic Item.


Obsidian Blade. This item is too expensive for what it does. You're looking at a full hero's magic point allotment, and even a Big Boss with a GW can practically ignore most Armor Saves with their weapon (Due to being S7 the first round, meaning -4 to save, an Orc Warboss being -5 to saves). Unless you're fighting some Heavy Cavalry or a Durability-Lord, you're better off either taking a Great Weapon or one of the stat-boosting magical items (as then you at least get a bonus to wound in addition). Would be a Goblin suggestion, but I just don't see it as worth doubling a Goblin Character's cost just to give them no-save to their S4 attacks.


Ogre Blade. A great weapon that doesn't get ASL or take two hands, essentially, at between x7 or x10 the cost (depending on if it's being put on a hero or a Lord). Similar boat as the Giant Blade, pretty much. Some situations you might as well take the Great Weapon and save points, other times it can come in handy. Not a bad weapon, but not too useful in most instances either.


Sword of Strife. Slightly cheaper and slightly toned down Sword of Bloodshed, so again a so-so weapon predominantly to be used by Orc Lords (if used at all).


Fencer's Blades. Two hand weapons that give WS10 as well. Not really useful in competitive terms, as unless fighting another player's character you're probably going to be hitting on 3's anyways (only real gain is that non-WS5 models will need 5's to hit you) but for fun I guess you could slap it onto a Night Goblin Big Boss and watch as their enemy unit's champion goes from 3's to hit to 4's or 5's (essentially -1 to -2 to hit) and also have to deal with the one higher toughness (for a total of 25%-50% less hits and 0-33% less wounds). As with Obsidian Blade, I wouldn't really recommend it.

((EDIT: A suggestion by Biophysical for the Fencer's Blades))

Biophysical wrote:I'd also like to throw in a potential option for Fencer's Blades. If you've got a Savage Orc Shaman, they will give him an extra attack (up to 3), and make the attacks fairly high quality with WS 10 and +1 S on the first round. WS 10 will give him some protection in combat as well. If you should roll the Fists of Gork power, so much the better. Say you've got a Shaman Lord with the Lucky Shrunken Head in a Savage Orc unit. You want the unit in combat, so the Shaman's got to be able to mix it up himself. The Blades give you WS10, S4 (5 the first round), T5, 3 Attack model with a 5+ ward save. Not Shabby. If you get Fists of Gork off, you've got 6 WS10 S7(8) attacks heading toward the enemy. It's a remains in play spell, which is bad, but it pretty much requires the opponent to dispell it. The combo gives you 15 points leftover, so you can do some stuff with cheapo Talismans and Enchanted Items.

Sword of Anti-Heroes. With Shaga's Screamin' Sword gone, this is your only "link" to that old blade. Bear in mind that it's a watered down version of that old item, you get what you pay for. Still get +1 Strength and Attack for every enemy character, but now it's just enemy characters fighting against your character / unit as opposed to a 12" bubble. Without the bubble, it's not quite as worth it in my opinion: You still need about the same number of characters to get effective (two or more to get better than +1S and +1A), but that's harder now with the bubble being gone. Normally, I'll suggest passing this. Works decently against HElf-Command Units, though, since it's seemingly a common tactic to stuff three or five HElf Mages and Princes in a single unit.


Spellthieving Sword. 25pts for an item that's only useful if put on a model you don't expect to kill a Wizard they get in base-to-base with (which should be no character at 55+ points, as outside Butchers and Chaos Sorcerers even a Goblin Big Boss should have very good odds of killing a Wizard with additional hand weapons or a Great Weapon). Typically, will say pass.


Sword of Swift Slaying. Less useful here than for other armies. Barring Black Orc units, you can often afford a few lost ladz before the character strikes, and barring the I5 Night Goblin Warboss you aren't likely to get re-rolls either. Will say "Pass" for competitive use.


Sword of Battle. +1 attack, meh. For Orcs, you can get the same without magical attacks for potentially free (if a Black Orc), and for Goblins another S4 attack is rarely that big a deal (Since, again, additional hand weapon = same result, essentially). Another "Pass".


Berserker Sword. Slightly better than the Sword of Battle, IMO, but not much. While you get Immune to Psychology as a boost, you also have to test to restrain from charging, must pursue with the bearer, and it's still merely +1 Attack (And +1 Strength, for an Orc, due to Choppa Rule). You can get the exact same thing in an OnG army book without buying a magic item, and it comes with a complimentary Talisman of Protection to boot. You know what it's called? A Savage Orc Character.


Sword of Might. 2/3 a Snotling's cost for an additional +1 strength over the Choppa rule? I can sorta see this as being of use on an Orc Big Boss, or a Goblin character, but predominantly I'd lean against it. Great Weapon works better for providing a Goblin character wounding capability, so if going for a killy-Gobbo you don't really need the extra points. Big Boss Orc mostly benefits from it insofar as being +2 Strength the first round of a combat, +1 Strength every round thereafter (so you'll be S5, and thus consistently wound T3 enemies on 2's), and being "only" 2/5th their magic limit.


Gold Sigil Sword. I, personally, can't see any reason to take this. Only the attacks are at a buffed initiative (meaning no use to protect a character from a Purple Sun), and you striking first barely helps as you'll probably still be looking at ten-or-so models remaining to strike back afterwards. Can't see much use for this on an Orc or Goblin, so "Pass".


Sword of Striking. The bonus to "To Hit" rolls is nice, and with the loss of stuff like Ulag's Akrit Axe a bit more useful. Without an ability to buy Hatred or something similar for a Boss now, 2+ to hit is the next best thing for increasing hit odds. Add in that you get the Choppa bonus now anyways, first round you're still at least S5 (if an Orc) with 3's (if attacking an Elite unit / character) or 2's (if attacking something else) to hit now too. Only four attacks max with this, usually, unless you combine with a Savage Orc and a Potion of Foolhardiness. In that case, though, it can be fun watching 5-6 attacks going at someone that need 2's to hit, and probably 2's to wound (On a Lord, you can statistically expect about four wounds in a single round from a SOrc in this manner, at -3 to the saves as well meaning a HArmor and Shield model is still going to have only parry or just drop).

The main reason it becomes useful is an Orc doesn't have to drop Choppa for this rule, now. At its current price, less than 1/3 the cheapest OnG Magic Weapon, it can readily be worth it for the hit-odds increase. Not going to suggest it much for Goblins, though (Since you've pretty much consigned that a Big Boss will be hitting on 4's or 3's, and a Warboss is good enough to reliably strike regular linemen now without magical boosts).


Biting Blade. With the loss of Sneaky Skewer, this is a Goblin character's next best thing. If you took the Sneaky Skewer last edition, might be worth taking this. Sure, only half the anti-armor capability, but it's still cheap (33% the total cost of a cheapo NG Big Boss) and doesn't have any particular drawbacks. For an Orc, not quite sure if buying Armor Piercing is worth the loss of an ability to use a GW, Additional Hand Weapon, or take a separate magic weapon.


Relic Sword. I can't really see this on anyone, barring a Goblin character with the Collar of Zorga too. 5's to wound is redundant on S5 Orc Warbosses (who, barring a T7 or tougher opponent, are already probably wounding on 5's or better in latter rounds, T8 or better in initial rounds), and practically so for most others as well (very few T6 or better units exist to take advantage of a Big Boss' / Goblin's base strength). Possibly stuff it on someone hunting a STank, though. Warboss with this hits with the exact same odds as if he had a Giant Blade and it was the first round, at the cost of only being -3 to its save (As opposed to -6 in the first round), -4 if Sneaky Stabbin', so it gives you one mean to apply wounds in combat to a STank.


Shrieking Blade. So-so on this item. On one hand, potentially dropping an enemy to WS 1 means even Gobbos are hitting on 3's (and they're hitting on 4's now against you!). On the other, with leadership as it is this edition it's nigh impossible to work Fear effectively barring poor-leadership armies (those that don't exceed Ld. 8 on average) combined with lacks of BSB / nearby General.


Tormentor Sword. See Shrieking blade for the drawback. There's also the problem that it's only useful against multi-wound models it's effective against, and that by the time you reach combat Stupidity is minimally useful. Oh, yeah, and you gave them a free Immune to Psychology. Unlike Shrieking blade, I'll give this a "Pass".


Warrior Bane. I'd only suggest this as it's 5pts for magical attacks, and it doesn't give the enemy any benefits at the same time. Can't think of many people who would scoff at +5pts for your attacks to be magical, and subtract wounds from multi-wound models you hurt too.



Magic Armor:


Armour of Destiny. Takes up all a Hero's / half a Lord's magic slots, but isn't particularly bad. 4+ Ward is better than you can get with O&G-specific magic items, but Heavy Armor means BOrc only :(. Great for durability, which considering you're often slower than enemy heroes isn't a bad thing. Biggest drawback is its points and a Magic Armor slot, meaning at best getting a 4+ base save with this on infantry (although BOrcs can still hit a 2+ through cavalry).


Trickster's Helm. Almost worth suggesting for an Orc Warboss (or even Big Boss), if only on the principal that you can hit a 1+ save and force a re-roll of successful To Wounds against a T5 model (which for several basic unit types means re-rolling sixes or fives and sixes). The fifty point price tag is what has me iffy. On one hand, when looking at something like S3 or S4, the re-rolling is superior to any of the Wardsave Magic Items you could buy. On the other, once you get to S5 you can match it with the 4+ Ward items, and at any higher you're pretty much paying extra points for a reduced effect. Personally, I'm against it as most things that'll dedicate attacks on your Trickster Helm'd character won't be as bothered by it as you'd like.


Armour of Silvered Steel. While not necessarily bad (a 2+ base save), I can't really suggest this. You can get the same thing with no magical gear on a BOrc Character (or a 5pt piece of magic gear if a non BOrc) via cavalry, a 3+ save for cheaper if on foot (again, if a BOrc) and for Goblins you're paying close to (if not over) their base cost for this protection. I may just be spoiled, though: I remember a 30pt 1+ Armor Save Magic Item, whereas now it's 50% more for one less point. Will say "Pass" on this one, but it can be nice on a BSB who doesn't have a Magical Standard.


Armour of Fortune. See Armour of Destiny, but slightly cheaper with a slightly worse Ward. Again this item's not particularly bad, but doesn't really shine either. Main reason I can see using this (and, looking back on it, the Armour of Destiny too) is to save your Talisman slot for another piece of magical gear, instead of the Ward Save. For example, put the Armour of Fortune on your BOrc character, and the Talisman of Endurance on a non-BOrc.


Helm of Discord. I'm not fond of this piece of armor, if only because its effect is reliant on a Leadership test. A test that can be modified, so hello (likely) Ld 9 or 10 w/ re-rolls. Useful for one-in-a-hundred surprises (Skulltaker cannot strike this round!), but for the most part you're paying 30pts for +1 to an armor save. Will say "Pass".


Glittering Scales. See last edition's "Effigy of Mork". Has some use, in that it's still a penalty to hit giving a good durability boost (at the loss of only Light Armor instead of Heavy). Best base save you're getting is a 3+ (Light Armor + Shield + Boar), but you can still combine it with other Ward items (if put on a Lord). Not going to suggest it overall, but will say it might have uses. Particularly fun on a Fencer Blade Warboss for the sake of any WS<5 model needing 6's to hit, but not exactly competitive.


Shield of Ptolos. A 1+ save versus shooting, great against standard archers, crossbows, and repeater crossbows... but not much else (Since the drop from a 2+ save to a 3+ can be big). Meant for characters who have combined profiles with their mounts, and Orcs predominantly lack those (well, besides basic cavalry) so are often not going to need this. If it applied to the whole unit, would be more appreciable.


Spellshield. 16-18pts to give your unit a 6+ Ward against Direct Damage magic spells (5+ if Savage Orcs). Not amazing, but can have its uses at times (See: Savage Orcs w/ 5+ Ward versus direct damage spells). More often, a "pass" though.


Gambler's Armour. Follows the pattern of other magical Heavy Armors, the enchanted item equivalent for 5pts more. Difference being that a 6+ Ward save is rarely worth it on its own, so this one I'd (generally) give a pass.


Dragonhelm. I'd say it's, overall, worth it. Twice as much as an enchanted shield, but if you already have one (a shield, not an enchanted version) it's the same effect in addition to a 2+ ward versus flaming attacks. Price is what makes it worthwhile (Twice an Enchanted Shield's cost), and that you can possibly combine with parry.


Enchanted Shield. Probably taken on a second character now instead of the main priority of durability. Dragon Helm is gives the Flaming resilience and doesn't require your shield arm, and if you have a regular shield (see: Still cheaper than enchanted shield) you get a slightly better save on average to boot (due to the Ward against Flaming). Still worthwhile in many instances, for obvious reasons (+2 to armor save!).


Charmed Shield. Definitely worthwhile, sorta. If you have a character on the same base-size on the character as the unit they joined, it means that - likely - they'll be ignoring one of the following:

Cannonball / Template Weapon. You just avoided a multi-wound, possibly "wounding on 2's" attack on a 2+. Definitely worthwhile.
Champion / Character attack. If they put it towards the shield bearer, odds are it had at least a somewhat reasonable chance of wounding.
Rank & File. Normally not a big deal... if most of the "Rank and File" that dedicate attacks towards characters didn't have some trick up their sleeve (like, I 'unno, Killing Blow).

Often only 1-3pts more than a typical shield to boot.




Talismans

Talisman of Preservation. Everyone likes a 4+ Ward Save. Especially Orcs & Goblins, who can only get this in "naturally" in their army via this item. It's a bit pricey for my taste (I often stick with just a 5+ Ward to save the 10-15pts of magic points), but definitely has its use (See: Durability Warboss w/ T5, 1+ or 3+ Save, 4+ Ward, and enemy must re-roll successful To Wound dice - say "Rarely wounded barring Special Characters and Run-Down".

Obsidian Lodestone. This looks - personally - like it'd work best on either a Cheapo Night Goblin Big Boss (buying his unit a 4+ Ward versus many spells for 75-80pts) or with a Savage Orc brick (3+ Ward versus direct damage magic, 2+ if combined with the Shrunken Head). Useful for Boyz block too, but considering the price of a Hero / Lord Orc not quite as much. Slightly more worthwhile for regular ladz with the loss of a Spirit Totem, but buying a Hero for a unit specifically for giving them a 4+ Anti-Magic Ward is a about a 3-5 point / model upgrade.

Talisman of Endurance. Only 5+ Ward for non-BOrc models. Definitely has its uses.

Obsidian Amulet. 66% the price of the Obsidian Lodestone, probably better for Savage Orcs. Still getting a 4+ versus magic there, and (sorta) making up for the fact that your 'Boss is a little over twice as much as a NG. Not quite as worth it for gobbo blocks since 4+ is much more impressive than 5+ (Not that a 1pt / model upgrade for a 5+ Ward versus magic isn't impressive). Less useful for regular Boyz blocks.

Dawnstone. Can be useful, but you're probably putting it on a non-Ward character. Keep that in mind, and recall that you'll probably want to treat it as a "Ward" versus S6 or lower enemies (which at a 1+ natural save is the same thing as a 1+ / 4+ Ward outside Killing Blow or Lore of Metal). Better if you're expecting something without Killing Blow or No-Save gear.

Opal Amulet. Not very useful IMO, since it applies to the first would only and is 4+ to boot. You can essentially get the same thing for 1/3 the price in armor, and at +33% success to boot.

Obsidian Trinket. See the "Spellshield", but cut 5pts.

Talisman of Protection. We're already familiar with this item. For a typical Orc, just go Savage Orc and save a Talisman Slot (Unless you don't want to risk Frenzy).

Seed of Rebirth. 5pts less for the same thing when facing non-flaming attacks. I still say just go Savage Orc for the natural 6+ Ward, it overall being more reliable, but a Dragon Helm's points for a 6+ Regen isn't exactly terrible (Not that notable, though, either).

Dragonbane Gem. Personally, I'd suggest the Dragonhelm. 5pts more and you get +1 to your Armor Save to boot. Can be useful, but highly situational (See: Against Wood Elves and Orcs). If you need some point filler, why not?

Pidgeon Plucker Pendant. Sorta useful, sorta not. It's affordable / takes up very little points, and can be a 5+ Ward to boot (-25pts to get the same Ward versus a Dragon Lord). The catch is, when not fighting flying, it's minimally useful. As in, five points and a Talisman Slot wasted. I can suggest it, but bear in mind the limitation and that it's still only a 5+ Ward. See Dragonbane Gem, in that if you need some point filler you might as well take it on someone who has nothing better.

Luckstone. A Dawnstone at 20% the cost, and only a single use. Same limitation that if taking this you're probably not going to have a Ward Save (barring a Savage Orc). Main advantage is that it can potentially be a Charmed Shield against an attack of your choosing instead of the first hit suffered.



Magic Standards

Rampager's Standard. I'll say "pass", only because it requires a BSB and means you cannot take magical armor or defensive gear. A 3+ Save on a T5 BSB is nice, but still quick to drop with a few dedicated attacks. And you want your BSB alive. Otherwise, it's so-so useful: Short-range charges rarely need it, but long-range or very important ones could get that extra security (Need to charge with Grimgor, enemy unit is 10" away, you need the 6+ on two dice but know that's still a good 10-20% failure rate).

Wailing Banner. You can cause Terror with an O&G unit! Too bad very few units outside the O&G book care about Terror. On the plus side, you don't need a BSB to take it and thus it can be BSB stacked.

Ranger's Standard. Maybe put this on some Boar Boyz Big 'Un block - a large one - simply to have them plow through woods into someone's flank. Expensive block, but could be useful with a few characters. Only other gain is saying "Haha" to a Curse of Anraheir on a block of Black Orcs. Might be missing a good use for this, though.

Razor Standard. Since several Orc units can be S5 on the first round of combat, this can cause a world of hurt on heavily armored infantry (and in later rounds, light infantry without being a waste). The catch is it's still pricey for that upgrade: No more than five Big 'Uns / four Black Orcs, but still enough that - when combined that against 5+ and 6+ save enemies - it's wasteful in situations. Can be extremely useful against Dwarves and the like, though: Putting 18-24 attacks needing 3's to wound and giving only parry or 6/6+ (if those) on regular troops? Now Dwarves get to see what Orcs typically go through

War Banner. At ten points less than the Razor Standard for +1 Combat Resolution, I cannot really recommend it barring maybe on Boar Boyz. There it can sorta make up its points by having maybe a Static CR of 3 (One rank, Standard, War Banner), but in most places it's not going to really help with anything. Could be nice combined with a General & BSB unit, though, for pure "static" CR Domination: Three ranks (+3), Standard (+1), Battle Standard (+1), War Banner (+1), and Waaagh! (+D3), and possibly Charge (+1), for a starting Combat Resolution (assuming you keep the three ranks) of 8-10 before wounds. Versus something like Undead, watch the unit crumble to nothing even if a Horde.

Banner of Swiftness. I can't really see this helping much, if only because your slow units are still slow, your fast units are still fast, and you shouldn't be spending more than two turns moving this edition anyways (Two turns movement = average 26-28" charge from your deployment zone by T3's mid-point). One advantage is that it's cheap, and in a few instances it might come in handy (See: Edge-hugging Dwarven / Empire Gunline).

Lichebone Pennant. Main reason I can see this being of use is a SOrc Big 'Un unit with the Shrunken Head that doesn't want to spend its Big Boss' points on an Obsidian Trinket. Brings you to a total of about 2pts / model for the upgrade, now the unit has a 4+ Ward versus Magic and a 5+ against other matters. +2pts / model for that upgrade from a 6+ Ward in general is nothing to sneeze at.

Standard of Discipline. This banner has a few uses that've been pointed out to me, both in smaller and larger games. Smaller games, put it in your General's unit, and you're looking at at least Ld. 8 for your army when using nothing better than a Night Goblin Warboss! Common Goblins can get a Ld. 9 army without Orc characters, and Orcs can get to a Waaagh!-ifying Ld. 10 (Normally only possible with Gorbad, who requires at least a 1500pt game).

For larger games? If you can afford a spare Warboss, slap it on a BOrc unit and stuff the Warboss in there, preferably with a Crown of Command to boot. You're looking at a Ld. 10 BOrc Brick (meaning 4+ / 6+ save potential in hand-to-hand) with Immunity to Psychology and stubborn until their character croaks. That unit most often will not budge, so even just a "small" unit of about 24 BOrcs with the Warboss (which will cost you about 500pts) for the large (I'm thinking 3500+ points) game will be holding up something potentially many times that price.

Banner of Eternal Flame. Niche usefulness. Lots of buildings / Chaos Trolls / Wood Elves / Cavalry? Have some fun. Otherwise? Well, it's not bad, so it's again the "Point Filler" standard.

Gleaming Pennant. Useful for that one BOrc unit run along the flank of your lines outside your BSB and General's range. Leadership 8 w/ Re-Roll, as shown earlier, is a pretty decent chance of success (8/9ths).

Scarecrow Banner. See Banner of Eternal Flame. It has some niche use, but is mostly there to stuff up some points. More a defensive than offensive item, since many fliers have Fear already.


Arcane Items:

Book of Ashur: Lord Only. +1 to Cast and Dispel. Since it's on a Lord at all times, can mean +5 to Cast and Dispel (The latter of which, without the Spirit Totem any more, is much more useful). It is very pricey, though, and again Lord Only. Normally, I'll say Pass: Orcs need bonus' to Dispel, more often, than Casting (Since even with "only" +4 to cast, most of their spells aren't any more difficult to cast now than they were in 7th and 6th Edition).

Feedback Scroll. Unfortunately, very limited in use. If you could use it even on an IF casting, it'd be amazing (See: Watch Teclis take two wounds). Since you cannot, you're probably paying 50pts for maybe one wound on an enemy Wizard (maybe two if a Slaan).

Scroll of Leeching. Better, in my opinion, as you can use it against some Dark Elves who would love to add some Power Dice back to their pool. "Going to start with four PD to Chill Wind? Okay, go ahead. Thanks for the four DD." Still very limited, however, in that the same time it might be good to cash this is also probably the same time the enemy is running low on their own PD.

Sivejir's Hex Scroll. Niche like all the others. Characters it'd be most useful against (Level 4) still have a 66% ignoring rate, and against Level 2's and Level 1's they probably don't have the big spells you want to stop anyways. If it wasn't limited to Wizards Only, could be much more useful (See: Lord w/ Bound Spell turned into Frog).

Power Scroll. Sounds absolutely great... until you see the Miscast part. Useful if you really want to get that one spell off on your army, though: Take this scroll, gather six dice (if you have them), say "Gorka Morka!", and hope for at least one double from six dice. Your Orc Shaman's likely dead now, but hey you got your spell off irresistibly in the bargain. Can be useful at times. More often than not, however, you'll want to pass this: Blowing up your high point investment is rarely worth it.

Wand of Jet. At its point cost for one-use only, doesn't seem particularly useful to me. You get to be a Slaan for a single spell. Can be interesting to combine with a Night Goblin, though, for getting one spell off on 3D6 at the cost of a single Power Die. Sneaky Stabbin' will pretty much be promised to go off unless you rolled a one on all dice (or at least a one on the Mushroom), and you could potentially be looking at a nasty 10-13 casting value buff on a unit that only took a single PD to make (and will probably take 2-3 DD to remove).

Forbidden Rod. Maybe if you have a Savage Orc in a unit with an Obsidian Lodestone? To my understanding, FAQ makes these hits magical. That means a 3+ Ward versus these wounds, meaning on average only one wound tops. Bear in mind that its usefulness comes from having a second character dedicated to protecting the mage, meaning you likely just spent some 225pts (at least) for +D6 power dice a single turn. Might be worth it to force an enemy to crack their Dispel Items early, though, so you can use spells more readily at a later date.

Trickster's Shard. A better version of the Feedback Scroll, IMO. Works very well with a Loremaster Gobbo or a Great Shaman (See: Someone who can cast more than twice a turn), especially if combined with a Forbidden Rod to make sure you have max PD.

Earthing Rod. Can be very handy for Orcs. Avoiding an Insta-Death, S10 Large Blast over your Big 'Uns can be a very good thing, for example.

Dispel Scroll. Always a good decision... on a Scroll Caddy.

Power Stone. For when you want to Kamikaze a Night Goblin Shaman, or trying the Wand of Jet trick for almost 50% the price (at the risk of a greater chance of Miscast / Irresistible).

Scepter of Stability. Without the Spirit Totem, always a good decision at 15pts. Works well when combined with the "2-3 Night Goblin Shamans @ L1" trick, being a minimal point increase but - when taken with stuff like a Dispel Scroll on one and a Power Stone on another - a very nasty magical output with some magical defense to boot.

Channelling Staff. Can be particularly fun for one of those many NG Shamans if you took an Arachnarok Shaman in the list: +3 to Channeling means that Wizard generates PD on a 3+ and DD on a 3+ too.

Scroll of Shielding. If combines with Magic Resistance, might be good to combine with an Obsidian Amulet for the 2+ Ward against a specific spell. Goblin Shaman making that 3D6 Fireball into a 1-3 wound impact, always worth the laugh. Not very much use overall however, so typically I'll say pass.


Enchanted Items:

Wizarding Hat. Put this on a Night Goblin Warboss. Why? About 20-50pts more than most armies' Level 2 Hero Wizards with no upgrades. Considering this guy can have a 4+ save (well, 5+ unless cavalry) and be put in a relatively cheap (who am I kidding: plain ol' cheap) block of NG's for about 300pts, very good. Risky in that you could wind up with a so-so Lore, great in that - if lucky - you can either buff up Azhag (by taking away at least one spell he wouldn't want) or some units with some nasty BRB Lores (Savage Orcs w/ Okkam's Mindrazor, Boar Boyz w/ Birona's Timewarp, S10 A10 Grimgor).

Fozzrik's Folding Fortress. This isn't quite as useful, but does have its uses none the less. Got a block with a General, Standard, and BSB in a 3K point game of Blood & Glory? Take this, shove said block in the building, enjoy (hopefully) Ld9 or Ld10 Stubborn Re-Roll Block that's probably never going to drop barring overkill unit thrust against it. Have a flank your really want protected? The building buys you three turns: Once to enter, once to exit, once to charge from. Of course, keep in mind its very pricey tag.

Arabyan Carpet. As it stands, I'm mixed. Without Maad's Map this is your alternative for having a character quickly running along the War Machines of an enemy's army. However, that's still not going to hit particularly long before when you should be in combat. If taken with a Cheapo Goblin Warboss with Shield of Ptolos, might get some less skilled / tactically inclined players to use up a lot of shots on the character to protect their gunlines.

Crown of Command. Give a unit perma-stubborn. Always a good decision, especially if you have Gorbad around. Makes a block dead 'ard when within BSB range.

Healing Potion. Not worth it, in my opinion. Actually, I can't see many Non-Ogre armies using this overall. Pass.

Featherfoe Torc. See the Pidgeon Plucker Pendant. Very niche in use.

Ruby Ring of Ruin. Your replacement of Nibbla's Ring, that's less suicidal too (At the cost of less 'ero killy)! Too bad it won't do much damage. :( Sorta worth it to give a Night Goblin Shaman for 4D6 of casting at 2 PD cost.

The Terrifying Mask of Eee! Terror but you cannot use the model's leadership... is there anything better for a Night Goblin Big Boss? Well, yes, but if - for some reason - Leadership isn't a sure thing on your opponent's side, it can be useful for trying to break someone. Usually a Pass, however, since (again) Leadership is often a joke 8th Edition.

Potion of Strength. +3 Strength is sorta nice, but most characters who can take this either cannot really capitalize on this (S5+ Orc Big bosses). Nice for some Goblin Combos, though, with Magic Weapons.

Potion of Toughness. Pass on everything except suicide-challenge Gobbo Big Boss / Warboss. There? Well, enjoy making an enemy go from possibly 3's and 4's to 3's and 2's to hurt the Gobbo, to 5's and 6's or 6's and 6's to hurt them. Fencer's Blades + Glittering + Potion of Toughness can really curb someone's combat Lord for a turn, in a manner they won't like either.

The Other Trickster's Shard. The new, decreased, tricksy trinket. Rerolling 5's is a drop from 33.3% to 11.1% on injured Daemons, or another two wounds out of every ten inflicted. Main appeal is it doesn't require a Goblin - meaning said unit actually has a shot of wounding outside characters / being slapped in a Chariot. Very contextually limited, though.

Ironcurse Icon. Have 5pts to kill? Might as well give a unit a 6+ Ward versus War Machines. Not much on its own, but can be fun turning Orc Boyz into Savage Orc Boyz-lite against an Empire Gunline.

Potion of Foolhardiness. See above "Have 5pts to kill?" magic items.

Potion of Speed. +3 Initiative is so-so. Orcs are probably going last anyways, and probably have enough models to spare that you don't care either way. On the other hand, see above "Have five points to kill?" Who knows, might be useful getting 7 S4 attacks from a Goblin Warboss before the enemy hits you.

The Spider Banner is written in the exact same way as the Bad Moon Banner. Only a regular goblin BSB can take it (No night goblins), but it says nothing about goblins only being able to receive the bonus if the BSB joins a non goblin unit. The BSB might be able to enhance a unit of trolls, savage orks, or black orks with it. It could probably get all kinds of nasty especially when combined with the poison attack spell for a 5+ poison attack on a unit of orks or trolls.

schadenfreude wrote:The Spider Banner is written in the exact same way as the Bad Moon Banner. Only a regular goblin BSB can take it (No night goblins), but it says nothing about goblins only being able to receive the bonus if the BSB joins a non goblin unit. The BSB might be able to enhance a unit of trolls, savage orks, or black orks with it. It could probably get all kinds of nasty especially when combined with the poison attack spell for a 5+ poison attack on a unit of orks or trolls.

Can a BSB of non-monstrous type join a Monstrous Infantry unit? Either way, I wouldn't put it with trolls, but be good to know for a fun game.

Savage Orcs would do amongst the best with it due to sheer attack number, frontage of six capable of getting a good 24 attacks / turn, being blessed by either S4 or S5 (depending on whether they're Big 'Uns or not).

I just see it as more applicable for Common Goblins, as they can take both Spears and Bows without being horrendously priced / model for it. Consider for example that a unit of 40 Goblins with the upgrade are paying about 2pts / model for poisoned attacks, which - while a bit much - can be seen as worthwhile as in close-combat those 6's to Hit will always count as Poisoned (unless the Goblins are looking at a -2 to their "To Hit" rolls in Combat), and they can also provide shooting with those attacks so they're looking at both melee and ranged poison potential. A unit of 30 Orcs is closer now to a 2.5 point / model average for the Poisoned Attacks, and is lacking the ranged application in return for having some natural (instead of requiring spell buff) armor save penalties (whether Big 'un or not).

Orcs can overall benefit more from effects like Stubborn and Soft Cover than a unit of something like Night Goblins / Goblins, but a Goblin unit overall can get some more benefit from the "Poisoned Attacks" trait.

And Cypher, I would have to check it again, but I was almost positive it was "Models moving into base-to-base with the unit carrying the banner" instead of "Models in a unit that comes into contact with the banner-carrying unit". If it's the entire unit instead of merely the front rank, it becomes much more helpful.

Minsc wrote:Can a BSB of non-monstrous type join a Monstrous Infantry unit? Either way, I wouldn't put it with trolls, but be good to know for a fun game.

Yes, any character that isn't riding a chariot or a monster can join any unit that dosen't contain chariots, monsters (see a trend here) or warmachines.
That is unless said character has a special rule of some sort.

Minsc - fairly sure that, in CC, a 6 is always a hit and therefore you can always poison in CC. It's only shooting whcih allows for 7 or more to hit.

HoverBoy wrote:

Minsc wrote:Can a BSB of non-monstrous type join a Monstrous Infantry unit? Either way, I wouldn't put it with trolls, but be good to know for a fun game.

Yes, any character that isn't riding a chariot or a monster can join any unit that dosen't contain chariots, monsters (see a trend here) or warmachines.
That is unless said character has a special rule of some sort.

Ah, alright then. Again, I wouldn't put it in there outside a game for fun, but potentially worth keeping in mind.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Minsc - fairly sure that, in CC, a 6 is always a hit and therefore you can always poison in CC. It's only shooting whcih allows for 7 or more to hit.

Ah yes, thanks for that. In which case, a Poison 6 would always wound in combat, meaning that the Common Gobbo Horde w/ Spear potential still exists quite well even in such instances.

The cost of full command (now) and the old spirit totem is the price of a Spider Banner. To me, that cost isn't worth it - usually - to upgrade a unit of something like Big 'uns or BOrcs with. Savage Orcs it can sorta be worth it, thanks to Frenzy giving a few extra attacks, and I think they can buy Bows along with their other weapons (cannot recall, haven't been to GW to check the book for almost two weeks), but that's still increasing the average points / model cost to something such as 12-14pts / model. Goblins, in the Horde formation of 40-50, are only looking at being maybe 6pts / model with the upgrade of the banner, which considering their WS2 in combat is a moot point without To-Hit penalties, they have the same shooting potential (at the loss of 6" in range), can take a 5+ save, and are fighting in four ranks in close combat that way, the price of 6pts / model seems much more reasonable there.

Plus, who wouldn't enjoy the opportunity to convert a giant block of Forest Goblin Chieftain Guard with bone & chitin armors, fang-weapons, etcetera?

I forgot to mention characters can't join units of flyers too even if they fly themselves, maybe because the only flying character my army has (skink chief) has a special rule for it.

I agree on pretty much every count of Minsc's reviews of the magic items. I only wonder if there are items for characters we haven't been able to field previously. I'm thinking, specifically, of Fast Cavalry goblins heroes. Are there some items that would be especially useful on one of these? I think for weapons, not much will be more points beneficial than a basic spear, and there shouldn't be enough heading his way to merit magic armor. Ruby Ring of Ruin might be useful just to zap characters you can find on their own. I'm not seeing much else.

I'd also like to throw in a potential option for Fencer's Blades. If you've got a Savage Orc Shaman, they will give him an extra attack (up to 3), and make the attacks fairly high quality with WS 10 and +1 S on the first round. WS 10 will give him some protection in combat as well. If you should roll the Fists of Gork power, so much the better. Say you've got a Shaman Lord with the Lucky Shrunken Head in a Savage Orc unit. You want the unit in combat, so the Shaman's got to be able to mix it up himself. The Blades give you WS10, S4 (5 the first round), T5, 3 Attack model with a 5+ ward save. Not Shabby. If you get Fists of Gork off, you've got 6 WS10 S7(8) attacks heading toward the enemy. It's a remains in play spell, which is bad, but it pretty much requires the opponent to dispell it. The combo gives you 15 points leftover, so you can do some stuff with cheapo Talismans and Enchanted Items.

Seeing as Enchanted Items is open, I might suggest just spending it on the MR(1) Talisman. Takes up the last bit of points handily, now your unit has a static 4+ Ward versus magic, 5+ Ward versus everything else. Already having a 5+ "Base" Ward is pretty much the only time a MR(1) will really make itself up, seeing as there the jump from 5+ to 4+ is much more helpful than a jump from something like, say, no Ward to a 6+.

That is a good combination I missed, though, and will add it to the Common Item list.

HoverBoy wrote:
The way unmodified anything works is actually highly dependand on the way it is worded as the FAQ said.
[i]Q. For characteristic tests

A leadership test is different from a characteristic test but that is immaterial because Spirit Leech is no leadership or characteristic test.

Unmodified Ld is defined as the highest in the unit with no other modifiers. A single model targeted by SL therefore benefits from the presence of, for example, a general in the same unit. Or handlers with a higher Ld.

Hmm seems you're right.

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:
The way unmodified anything works is actually highly dependand on the way it is worded as the FAQ said.
[i]Q. For characteristic tests

A leadership test is different from a characteristic test but that is immaterial because Spirit Leech is no leadership or characteristic test.

Unmodified Ld is defined as the highest in the unit with no other modifiers. A single model targeted by SL therefore benefits from the presence of, for example, a general in the same unit. Or handlers with a higher Ld.

For spirit leach, yes, they would get the highest in the unit, however, the Skull Wand, it states the model takes a leadership test against its "own, unmodified leadership." So in my view, they wouldn't get the best in the unit, and that is how I will play it until it gets FAQed.

I can't find the heavy armor restrictions on non BOrk lords and heroes. All that I could find is restrictions saying shaman can't take armor.

May be a relic of the last edition, but typically you cannot equip a magical version of a suit of armor unless you can buy the Mundane version. Thus, a Black Orc couldn't take a magical suit of light armor, nor anything else in the army take a suit of heavy armor.

Also, I checked the Rulebook and you cannot combine the Armor of Gork with a Chariot - it specifies that in case of multiples of the rule, they don't stack but only pick the best. :( So, instead, possibly putting it on a Wyvern boss.

Minsc wrote:May be a relic of the last edition, but typically you cannot equip a magical version of a suit of armor unless you can buy the Mundane version. Thus, a Black Orc couldn't take a magical suit of light armor, nor anything else in the army take a suit of heavy armor.

I don't know about previous editions, but the current rule is only that wizards can not take magic armor unless they have the option for mundane armor.

There is no restriction on taking magical armour by type any longer - if you can take Armour you can take Magic Armour of ANY time

Well that's good news for my all gobbo/no ork army, will probably stick the gen in armor of destiny.

I am really leaning toward the +1 leadership bsb in the generals unit. Without it there is just no other way for gobbos to get ld9 without orks.