Leman Russ Vs. Leman Russ Demolisher

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**redguardsman**

Hey guys.

Recently My Leman Russes have been blowing up.

Why? Assaults!!! There is no tactical incentive for my enemies to attack my rear armor since in 5th edition all assaults are resolved against the vehicles back armor.

Also, one player brought up the fact that during MY assault phase even if his squad is not locked in combat with my tank if they are previously in base-to-base contact with it they keep assaulting it.

That really screwed me over.

So instead of taking a Leman Russ with a Lascannon, should I get a demolisher instead? (It has 11 Rear Armor, not 10 like the standard Russ)

Also, should I invest in Extra Armour due to the fact that if my tanks are stunned he can keep attacking them during MY assault phase?

**MechaEmperor7000**

I'm pretty sure that if they've disengaged, they're not allowed to assault the model even if they're in base contact, unless they charge it again. In anycase, if he insists, why not just move an inch? The Leman Russ's Lumbering Behemoth rule still allows you to fire everything even if you did move just an inch.

**Vaktathi**

I guess it sorta depends on the army and what you need in there, however there are many ways to protect your tanks from assaults. With an LRBT, they can always move at least that 6" and still fire to full effect if they only have two weapons, and then enemies are only hitting you on a 4+.

Alternatively you can always castle up or bubble wrap your important tanks. This means you surround your important vehicles with less important units. With castling it generally means surrounding a Leman Russ with Chimeras, this means an enemy can't reach them for assaults, and will generally be out of melta double pen range, and will always have to give up a 4+ cover save to the Leman Russ while your Russ tank's turret can fire above the chimeras just fine without giving the enemy a cover save. Alterantively what you can do is just take a relatively cheap Infantry Squad and deploy it around your tank, forcing the enemy to fight through and kill them off first before they can get to the tank.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I would still take a Demolisher. Closer Range and heavier payload, more than enough to punish anything that thinks charging is a better alternative.

**redguardsman**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:I'm pretty sure that if they've disengaged, they're not allowed to assault the model even if they're in base contact, unless they charge it again. In anycase, if he insists, why not just move an inch? The Leman Russ's Lumbering Behemoth rule still allows you to fire everything even if you did move just an inch.

WELL.

This is my situation:

He assaults and stuns my russ

My Turn

My russ is stunned, and since it is still in base-to-base contact with his models, his models attack again during my assault phase

So basically if my russ gets assaulted even once it's toast, unless I can surround it with chimeras and other stuff.

**matterofpride**

I am pretty sure that since your russ is a tank and not infantry/walker(doesnt have a WS) That even if he is in B2B in the next assualt phase...he cant attack it..since they are not actually locked in close combat with it..It can still move and you can still shot at them.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Extra armor would be good, as you can at least reposition yourself a bit. However, try moving your russ if the enemy gets too close. Lumbering Behemoth lets you stay just out of charging range (provided you moved early enough) while still shooting at the assaulting squad.

**Ailaros**

Before the confusion spreads, if you're in assault with a vehicle, you can not be locked into combat with it. That said, if you're still in base combat with a vehicle on your opponent's turn, they CAN ATTACK AGAIN WITH GRENADES.

Read that right, they CAN do it.

In any case, the demolisher is a clearly superior tank to the regular russ, and if you can ever spend points for the upgrade, you should always take it. The only thing the regular russ gains is range, but if what you were looking for is a ranged splat-cannon, that's what a basilisk hiding out of LOS is for.

**redguardsman**

matterofpride wrote:I am pretty sure that since your russ is a tank and not infantry/walker(doesnt have a WS) That even if he is in B2B in the next assualt phase...he cant attack it..since they are not actually locked in close combat with it..It can still move and you can still shot at them.

p. 63 rulebook "Successive Turns"

http://htmlimg1.scribdassets.com/aodzr1kv2o6r400/images/82-c0692d5fab/000.jpg

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:Before the confusion spreads, if you're in assault with a vehicle, you can not be locked into combat with it. That said, if you're still in base combat with a vehicle on your opponent's turn, they CAN ATTACK AGAIN WITH GRENADES.

Read that right, they CAN do it.

In any case, the demolisher is a clearly superior tank to the regular russ, and if you can ever spend points for the upgrade, you should always take it. The only thing the regular russ gains is range, but if what you were looking for is a ranged splat-cannon, that's what a basilisk hiding out of LOS is for.

with grenades only? they can't use their normal weapons? if not, why?

**MechaEmperor7000**

lol small wonder why your friend memorized that part of the book then XD. Get Extra Armor then. In this case it would really help.

**Ailaros**

redguardsman wrote:with grenades only?

No, it's just that the OP was talking about grenade attacks. Normal ones count as well, of course.

**guiltl3ss**

I might also try to fix the problem at it's root...stop the assaults before they hit your tanks. What is your friend closing on you with?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what does the rest of your army look like?

**Brother SRM**

Have Guardsmen in front of your tanks. Having a nice infantry shield around your tanks will keep your tanks from getting smashed in close combat.

**guiltl3ss**

Brother SRM wrote:Have Guardsmen in front of your tanks. Having a nice infantry shield around your tanks will keep your tanks from getting smashed in close combat.

QFT.

**GalacticDefender**

Executioner FTW!!

But I would recommend a Demolisher, or even an executioner against an infantry-heavy army (Yeah, people say they suck, but I've had good experiences using them in the past. 20 bullets flying at a squad of Orks is going to do some damage no matter how you look at it.)

**Ailaros**

The problem with bubble wrap is that it's expensive and temporary.

Because, really, you're spending 50 points per tank for an upgrade that keeps them out of close combat for a turn? Seems like a dubious use of points.

Of course, if you already have troops in your backfield protecting a stationary russ, then why not. Of course, at that point I'd have questions like "why are your infantry wasting their time sitting around the backfield?" and "why aren't you bringing artillery instead of russes?"

**redguardsman**

well im not going to say I have a problem getting assaulted because I know how to fix that problem now.

I am simply just saying since my tanks will be doomed the second they are assaulted I might aswell get a demolisher for the 11 rear and get extra armour. UNLESS I can ensure that the squad assaulting it gets shot to pieces. I think I am just going to surround my 2 standard russes with Chimera's and everything will be all fine and dandy. I just hope nobody gives me lip when they see my battle cannons hovering over my chimeras and shooting

**Brother SRM**

Well when I'm "bubble wrapping" as it were, I'm usually using a few squads to advance with the tanks on an objective. Screening tanks with infantry, even if it's just for assaulting, is a pretty basic tactic and one that's been used in wargaming and the real thing for a long time. Not saying every squad in front of your tanks needs to be a sacrificial one with only that purpose, but if worst comes to worst, it's good to have them there.

**Ogiwan**

Hmm. I'm thinking, if your tanks always get stunned and can't move....why not rush a Banewolf over there, and Chem-cannon their faces off? I'm not sure if you can let the Chem-Cannon template touch your Russ or not, but if they aren't locked in close combat, you can totally chem them, and they'll be nice and grouped up.