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Made in us
Black Templar Recruit Undergoing Surgeries



Ann Arbor, MI

Heyo, first time poster here, it's been a while since I played 40k regularly (not since mid-4th edition), and I'm looking to put some models on the table again in the near future; I've been working on an Saim Hann Eldar army, so after doing some reading and looking around, I came up with this list and wanted to put it up here for some advice. Here it is:

Farseer (175)
Runes of Warding
Spirit Stones
Jetbike
Doom, Fortune

Autarch (130)
Jetbike
Laser Lance
Mandiblasters

6 Warlock Bodyguards on Jetbikes (310)
1x Enhance
1x Embolden
2x Destructor

5x Fire Dragons (92)
Exarch w/ Dragon's Breath Flamer

5x Fire Dragons (92)
Exarch w/ Dragon's Breath Flamer

6x Guardian Jetbikes (202)
2x Shuricannon
Warlock w/ Embolden

6x Guardian Jetbikes (202)
2x Shuricannon
Warlock w/ Embolden

6x Guardian Jetbikes (202)
2x Shuricannon
Warlock w/ Embolden

5x Dire Avengers (60)

Falcon w/ EML (180)
Holofields
Spirit Stones

Falcon w/ EML (180)
Holofields
Spirit Stones

Falcon w/ Scatter Laser (175)
Holofields
Spirit Stones

Based on what I've read, it seems flexible to me, but I'm no expert, so I'm looking for advice on what would cause this list problems and how I might improve it.
   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard




Houston, Tx

It seems pretty good to me, I would give the Farseer and Singing Spear and I would drop the squad of Fire Dragons for a squad of Shining Spears.
   
Made in us
Black Templar Recruit Undergoing Surgeries



Ann Arbor, MI

How do you figure on the Shining Spears? I like them, and think they'd fit thematically, but in my experience in using them and talking to experienced players on their uses, they're way too expensive for not enough output to be worthwhile. I'm trying to make an at least fairly competetive list while sticking with the Saim Hann theme.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/20 23:30:06


 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

ok ok ok

I say this a lot, but NEVER EVER run fire dragons in falcons.

That said I recognize that it is very easy to be fooled by the carrying capacity. However the Falcon grav tank plays an extremely different role than Fire Dragons.

The role of fire dragons, is to fly into the heart of the enemy early on, and nuke a centerpiece of his army, this includes a land raider carrying TH/SS termies, etc, or a battle wagon full of nobs, etc. Often times this leaves the dragons and their tank in the middle of kill range for your opponent.

The role of a Falcon is to make use of its 3 heavy weapons, and transport ability to take a min squad of Dire Avengers, then sit on an objective, and provide long range fire support. This is emphasized by its 3 heavy weapons.

Consider this, if you move a Falcon 12 inches, it can only fire a single gun, at bs3. If you move a wave serpent 12 inches, it can fire its single turret tl at full effectiveness. This is infinately better. Further a wave serpent with a tl shuri cannon costs only 100 points. You feel much worse about losing it than an expensive 180 point falcon.

Further a Wave Serpent's special rules are actually tailored for carrying fire dragons into the fray. the energy field rule protects it against close range anti tank- such as melta guns and rending weapons. On the other hand, the Falcon is no better at taking close range fire power than it is at taking long range fire power.

these units are an awful mix, and create huge point inefficiencies in your list.

I don't think the exarch's are necessary, a single heavy flamer doesn't make them that multi purpose, and even against foot lists you can still generally find something that doesn't like melta guns- such as meganobs or tyranid warriors or MCs. I'd just take 5 plain dragons so that you can keep the costs down and buy more guns for your list.

Your jetbike squads look good. I'd give each of your warlock's a singing spear. They have the mobility to deliver it, and having those extra s9 hits is useful, especially considering their knack for finding side and rear armor.

I wouldn't use shining spears- they are very expensive, absolutely rubbish if you don't get the charge and as durable (not) as a tactical space marine combat squad to small arms fire. Stick to the warlock council, the Autarch's power weapon attacks there can be a huge boon to their killing power, and he benefits from fortune. I'd toss a fusion gun onto him for some extra AT ability.

if you have any spare points, try to fit on 2 fire prisms. Otherwise Vypers will do just fine for filling gaps. Either go EML + underslung cannon, only scatter laser, or 2 cannons.

other than that it looks like a solid saim han list





This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/02/21 18:01:49


Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in us
Black Templar Recruit Undergoing Surgeries



Ann Arbor, MI

Okay, awesome, that's some great feedback, thanks. That makes sense to me, and I agree with you everything. So if it pleases the assembly, here's a tweaked list for your review.

Farseer (175)
Runes of Warding
Spirit Stones
Jetbike
Doom, Fortune

6 Warlock Bodyguards on Jetbikes (320)
1x Enhance
1x Embolden
3x Destructor

Autarch (140)
Jetbike
Laser Lance
Fusion Gun
Mandiblasters

5x Fire Dragons (190)
Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuricannon
Spirit Stones

5x Fire Dragons (190)
Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuricannon
Spirit Stones

6x Guardian Jetbikes (205)
2x Shuricannon
Warlock w/ Embolden & SS

6x Guardian Jetbikes (205)
2x Shuricannon
Warlock w/ Embolden & SS

6x Guardian Jetbikes (205)
2x Shuricannon
Warlock w/ Embolden & SS

5x Dire Avengers (60)

Vyper w/ Scatter Laser (60)

Vyper w/ Scatter Laser (60)

Falcon w/ EML (190)
Shuricannon
Holofields
Spirit Stones

Questions:
-Are the vypers better as a squadron, or separate as I have them above? It makes sense to me like this.
-I added the Shuricannon to the Falcon, is the EML still good on it, or is there a better choice for the turret gun? Same goes for the shuricannons on the Wave Serpents, I figure they're good as is just 'cause they're cheap.
-Are the Spirit Stones worth it on the serpents?
-While asking questions, I should ask, how exactly does one use the Dire Avengers in the Falcon? They seem to be a staple these days, and I assume the falcon offers shooting support until swooping in for some late-game objective grabbing. Is that correct?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/22 03:12:18


 
   
Made in us
Adolescent Youth with Potential



ECU, NC

I think its shaping up to be a really good list. To answer your questions:

Vypers are much better when not squadrons. They can target different units and they don't suffer from the squadron rules where if one gets immobilized it is immediately destroyed. You'll have more kill points yeah, but it should work out better.

EML is good for Falcons because it gives them more strength 8 fire, and if you do have to move, you can fire it as a defensive weapon using the small blast. The Shuricannon on the Falcon... I think if you're doing what Akaean was saying and keeping your DAs in there as an objective-capturing gun platform, then it will work well. TL Shuricannons on Wave Serpents are just awesome. Super cheap and pretty damaging.

Whether or not Spirit Stones are worth it depends on your playstyle. You're probably going to flat out your Wave Serpent on the first turn to get the cover save and to get it close to your target, then use Fire Dragons the next turn. In that case, it really doesn't matter a whole lot whether or not you have Spirit Stones. But if you do take Spirit Stones, it lets you use your Wave Serpents as Strength 10 tank ramming missiles pretty much whenever you want so long as they aren't immobilized or blown up.

I guess I already sort of answered the last question, but to sum it up: you use the DAs in the Falcon as an objective capture/control platform. Either setting up with it on an objective at the start of the game and keeping it there, or going to get to an objective very quickly. In Annihilation games keep using as many Falcon guns as possible and do whatever you want with it.

One thing I want to point out: if you run your Vypers with Shuricannons instead of Scatter Lasers, you can get 6 Singing Spears, 5 on your Warlocks and 1 on your Farseer (you want one on him since he has the higher BS). The advantage of the Jetbikes is their mobility, and as Akaean pointed out, you can get to side and back armor of vehicles REALLY easily. And since SS are strength 9 against vehicles, thats basically like having 6 Lascannon shots against a vehicle, even more if you assault the vehicle the next turn. And even if you are going against a squad of troops, having those extra 4 shots (assuming you use all your Destructors) can be crucial.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight






Yendor

yea, the entire principle of DAs in a falcon w/ holofields is to create a unit to camp an objective and generally be a royal pain in the butt to get off that objective. And if need be can zoom over to a different objective! hooray! The unit works best with a guide seer chilling out, but it doesn't *need* it.

Shuricannon on the bottom is really a matter of taste, its not terribly expensive, and its range isn't great, but lets be honest a tl shuri catapult isn't the greatest weapon ever, and having a 3rd heavy gun can help in some circumstances.

I understand the arguments on both sides for spirit stones. I personally don't run them- I find I can afford more guns without them. dakkadakkadakka. Especially with Eldar, who generally find themselves outgunned by their opponents- it helps to fit as much in as humanly- errr eldarly possible

As for singing spears on jetlock councils, you want to make sure you don't go overboard. They are first and foremost a melee squad, and the more spears you add the fewer attacks they get in cc. Its nice to have a spear on the farseer- to take advantage of bs5, and possibly 1 or 2 on the warlocks (depending on squad size) any more than that though, and you lose way to many attacks in cc.

Xom finds this thread hilarious!

My 5th Edition Eldar Tactica (not updated for 6th, historical purposes only) Walking the Path of the Eldar 
   
Made in us
Black Templar Recruit Undergoing Surgeries



Ann Arbor, MI

Cool, I really do appreciate the advice and tips. I've mulled over the list and I'm going to run it as-is and make tweaks once I've had some games with them.

My question now, seeing as I haven't had much experience with Eldar in general, much less a bike list, is what are things that will give this list trouble. What sort of units and list builds should I watch out for? Obviously I want to avoid CC with my Guardian Bikes, but beyond that, I'm looking for more specific things.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





US

Nice list overall, nice synergy and only a few things I'd tweak here and there. In annihilation games make sure to protect those Vypers as they will be heavily picked on for easy KPs.

The biggest issue armies you will have is Blood Angels assault marine/FNP heavy and Dark Eldar if they get the jump on you. Anything that can catch those jetbikes in CC or ignores cover/armor (flamers of Tzeetch I'm looking at you) is going to give you hell and you'll probably find that hiding/tactically moving 21 GJB is a tad cumbersome.

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