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Hey guys, so me and my buddies are going to have a small 40k tournament at our flgs, and the first army im going up against is tyrandis. I'm pretty confident that I'll win against the 'Nids, but then i'll have to play against either necrons or orks, and im pretty sure the orks are going to win, cuz the orks player has much more army, and more experience, so this is my anti assault/infantry list against orcs and 'nids :O


LIST HAS BEEN UPDATED

HQ:

-Haemonculus...75 pts
~Liquifier Gun
~Hexrifle

-Haemonculus...75 pts
~Hexrifle
~Liquifier Gun

ELITES: ... 328 pts

-4x Kaballite Trueborn...78 pts
~2x Shardcarbine
~2x Splinter Cannon

DT: Venom...65 pts
~2x Splinter Cannon
~Flickerfield


-4x Kaballite Trueborn...108
~4x Blaster

DT: Venom...65 pts
~2x Splinter Cannon
~Flickerfield


TROOPS: ... 585 points

-10x Kaballite Warrior...115 pts
~1x Splinter Cannon
~1x Blaster

-DT: Raider...70 pts
~Dark Lance
~Flickerfield

-10x Kaballite Warrior...115 pts
~1x Splinter Cannon
~1x Blaster

-DT: Raider...70 pts
~Dark Lance
~Flickerfield

-10x Kaballite Warrior...115 pts
~1x Splinter Cannon
~1x Blaster

-DT: Raider...70 pts
~Dark Lance
~Flickerfield

HEAVY SUPPORT

-Ravager
~3x Dark Lance
~ Flickerfield

-Ravager
~3x Dark Lance
~ Flickerfield


TOTAL: 1251 points

comments and criticism still appreciated

You have put all upgrades on your vehicles, while you only need the flickerfields, (and the splintercannon on the venom),
you could use those points to fit in a razorwing. Or exchange the ravagers for razorwings. Since you are up against tyranids and orks, and those are perfect against hordes.

Tmonster wrote:You have put all upgrades on your vehicles, while you only need the flickerfields, (and the splintercannon on the venom),
you could use those points to fit in a razorwing. Or exchange the ravagers for razorwings. Since you are up against tyranids and orks, and those are perfect against hordes.

well the envenomed blades and the torment grenade launchers are precaution for assault, and they onl cost 5 points each so i figured why not
i like the idea of the razorwing, but i dont have a model for one :/

Seems alright, although i dont normally worry about tlgs, and envenomed blades

maybe if you can, swap out the envenomed blades and tlgs for a haemonculus with hexrifle to go in one of your raider squads, that way you have a good weapon that can take down multi wound models quicker, haemonculus ancient if you can, cause i did a game with that and i only had a normal haemonculi and i kept rolling 1s and 2s to hit

i like the envenomed blades and the tlgs because they can help counter against assault, which is what orks and 'nids mainly do, so i don't really wanna take them out

I actually dont have a haemonculus model anyway , and i don't really like to proxy models unless i have to (like with Duke Sliscus)
but i do have it on my list because i plan to buy the means necessary to make a more assaulty army list

You have so much extra crap in this list its not even funny.

1) cut the upgrades on the vehicles it doesnt matter what you think they will do. raiders at 100 points is just fail.

2) plasma grenades and shard carbines arent needed on the trueborn

3) if you will face no mech at all then change the dark lances on the raiders to disintegrators if you dont want to take razorwings

4) I will live and die by the 5 man warrior venom combo.... consider that instead of 10 man raider

Laosiamus wrote:You have so much extra crap in this list its not even funny.

1) cut the upgrades on the vehicles it doesnt matter what you think they will do. raiders at 100 points is just fail.

2) plasma grenades and shard carbines arent needed on the trueborn

3) if you will face no mech at all then change the dark lances on the raiders to disintegrators if you dont want to take razorwings

4) I will live and die by the 5 man warrior venom combo.... consider that instead of 10 man raider

i dont play with models i dont own, and even if i did, i dont have anything to proxy the razorwing

also, the useseless crap is all filler, it all only costs about 30 points, and theres nothing much else to take with that

as for the 5 man venom warrior, are you talking about regular warriors, or trueborn, cuz i would not consider taking 5 warriors in a venom, trueborn i would

also shardcarbines are useful at assault 3 and not being rapid fire, combned with duke sliscus, thats 21 shots, both at to hit and wound on a 3+

I actually am going to change the 5 man trueborn squad in the venom to anti tank
and remove the anti assualt gak



CHECK LIST FOR UPDATE

The splinter racks on the raiders are in my mind kinda a waste. They do not affect splinter cannons so thats just twin linking 8 splinter rifles which is not that amazing, raiders really should not be used as gunboats as much as assault vehicles. I feel that more than 3 blasters on the trueborn is kinda overkill. How I have been ruining them is three man squads with two dark lances and a Venom. The squad hides in cover while the venom flies around and messes up the guys on foot.

I'm not sure how to feel about the duke. The meta I usually encounter is MSU. I would rather pack up on anti-tank and out run guys on foot than have less anti tank and hope that I can pop the transports to so I can get to the guys inside. For this reason I do not think that 150 points to make one squads weapons wound on a 3+ is good enough. Maybe in a wych heavy list, but even then I would rather get more wyches than the Duke. You mentioned that you do not have a model to for a haemonculus model but I really think it would be a good idea to run on especially under 1850.

With three venoms and as many dark lances as you can get usually ruin 'nids. With orks it depends, you should be able to give the business to kan wall and battle wagon orks with your dark lances. Hoard orks might be a problem but all you have to do is skirt 19 inches and shoot up until they break.

I agree with what Laosiamus said, at 1850 I have 2 venoms with 5 warriors with blasters and 3 empty true born venoms. A single dark lances is not as exciting as 12 poisoned shots. My rule of thumb is if it is not in at least doubles it is not worth relying on to do its job (2 dark lances per true born squad or 3 dark lances on Ravagers).

Savist wrote:The splinter racks on the raiders are in my mind kinda a waste. They do not affect splinter cannons so thats just twin linking 8 splinter rifles which is not that amazing, raiders really should not be used as gunboats as much as assault vehicles. I feel that more than 3 blasters on the trueborn is kinda overkill. How I have been ruining them is three man squads with two dark lances and a Venom. The squad hides in cover while the venom flies around and messes up the guys on foot.

I'm not sure how to feel about the duke. The meta I usually encounter is MSU. I would rather pack up on anti-tank and out run guys on foot than have less anti tank and hope that I can pop the transports to so I can get to the guys inside. For this reason I do not think that 150 points to make one squads weapons wound on a 3+ is good enough. Maybe in a wych heavy list, but even then I would rather get more wyches than the Duke. You mentioned that you do not have a model to for a haemonculus model but I really think it would be a good idea to run on especially under 1850.

With three venoms and as many dark lances as you can get usually ruin 'nids. With orks it depends, you should be able to give the business to kan wall and battle wagon orks with your dark lances. Hoard orks might be a problem but all you have to do is skirt 19 inches and shoot up until they break.

I agree with what Laosiamus said, at 1850 I have 2 venoms with 5 warriors with blasters and 3 empty true born venoms. A single dark lances is not as exciting as 12 poisoned shots. My rule of thumb is if it is not in at least doubles it is not worth relying on to do its job (2 dark lances per true born squad or 3 dark lances on Ravagers).

well i could proxy the haemonculus model i suppose with the old de archon, but as for the venoms, what do people use for models for those..i converted one out an old raider and an old jetbike, but i dont have anything else like that.
also, so the suggestion is to not take raiders at all but a lot of venoms? im not sure i understand that strategy

I just used eldar Vypers for my venoms, I did not but the gun on the back and put little platforms on the side. Its not big and impressive, but I think it looks cool.

I think that raiders are good, but I do not think you should be taking a lot of them. In my mind there is more "durable" dark lances in the codex other than raiders. In that 1850 list I have 3 raiders, one with ten Wyches and two with ten Wracks. Between that and the ravagers you should not be hurting for anti tank. If you need more anti tank two of the venoms do have blasters in them so if your in a bad way you can always shoot those. By taking those venoms you are giving up 2 dark lance shots for 24 poisoned 4+ shots, I think that trade off is better.

However if you believe that your local meta is to take more dark lances then by all means do it. I am just speaking from personal experience, and it people run LRs or a lot of parking lot lists then go for the two extra venoms.

Savist wrote:I just used eldar Vypers for my venoms, I did not but the gun on the back and put little platforms on the side. Its not big and impressive, but I think it looks cool.

I think that raiders are good, but I do not think you should be taking a lot of them. In my mind there is more "durable" dark lances in the codex other than raiders. In that 1850 list I have 3 raiders, one with ten Wyches and two with ten Wracks. Between that and the ravagers you should not be hurting for anti tank. If you need more anti tank two of the venoms do have blasters in them so if your in a bad way you can always shoot those. By taking those venoms you are giving up 2 dark lance shots for 24 poisoned 4+ shots, I think that trade off is better.

However if you believe that your local meta is to take more dark lances then by all means do it. I am just speaking from personal experience, and it people run LRs or a lot of parking lot lists then go for the two extra venoms.

well i mean this isnt like a real tournament, so there isnt really a meta, but im still not sure i get what your saying..are venoms good or not? im pretty sure you're trying to tell me not to take the anti tank kaballite trueborn, and make them just anti infantry? Im still not really sure. The list is 1250 points, not 1850. If you could just explain it like step by step it would be a lot easier

Venoms can work better cause they are a little cheaper and come with a flicker field so they dont need any upgrades

And yeah most people just use vypers to convert into venoms

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/5136019308_989cdc73b4_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php%3Ftopic%3D207004.0&usg=__z2n1O1l1NeE_uf7QGObNM582OAo=&h=894&w=1024&sz=125&hl=en&start=1&sig2=HZybLOVD-ESlpXC0O4iqkg&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=dJ7jSf2-GH5zFM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvenom%2Bconversion%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-au:IE-Address%26rlz%3D1I7ADFA_en%26biw%3D1823%26bih%3D910%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=-D5kTeOCMIL4vwPgsbi_AQ

Theres an example i found from a quick google search XD

But if your going anti infantry venoms are definitely better as they come with a splinter cannon and TL splinter rifle which you can upgrade to a 2nd cannon for 10pts basically making it heavy 12.....which is much better then heavy 1...even if its not str 8 ap 2....

The main advantage over having lots of 5man venom warrior squads is like what people used to do with old DE in raiders, but now that DE have a 5man transport it works even better....
And that is basically to get as many blasters as you can seeing as you only need 5 man instead of 10 for 1 DL, it also allows you to spread your stuff out if need be.

Krushhk wrote:Venoms can work better cause they are a little cheaper and come with a flicker field so they dont need any upgrades

And yeah most people just use vypers to convert into venoms

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/5136019308_989cdc73b4_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.40konline.com/community/index.php%3Ftopic%3D207004.0&usg=__z2n1O1l1NeE_uf7QGObNM582OAo=&h=894&w=1024&sz=125&hl=en&start=1&sig2=HZybLOVD-ESlpXC0O4iqkg&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=dJ7jSf2-GH5zFM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvenom%2Bconversion%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-au:IE-Address%26rlz%3D1I7ADFA_en%26biw%3D1823%26bih%3D910%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=-D5kTeOCMIL4vwPgsbi_AQ

Theres an example i found from a quick google search XD

But if your going anti infantry venoms are definitely better as they come with a splinter cannon and TL splinter rifle which you can upgrade to a 2nd cannon for 10pts basically making it heavy 12.....which is much better then heavy 1...even if its not str 8 ap 2....

The main advantage over having lots of 5man venom warrior squads is like what people used to do with old DE in raiders, but now that DE have a 5man transport it works even better....
And that is basically to get as many blasters as you can seeing as you only need 5 man instead of 10 for 1 DL, it also allows you to spread your stuff out if need be.

ok this makes a lot more sense. How many venoms do you suggest taking? Like take 3 venoms with 5 warriors each and some with some trueborn, or more or less? also, is GW planning on making a venom model?

UPDATE : I removed the Splinter racks from the raiders, and replaced Duke SLiscus with Haemonculi..any way to improve the trueborn squads?

Edit: Heres what my idea for venom squads would be

2 to 3 of this :

-5x Kaballite Warrior...70pts
~1x Blaster
~1x Splinter Cannon

-DT: Venom...65 pts
~x2 Splinter Cannon
~ Flickerfield


and 2 of this

-3x Kaballite Trueborn...71 pts
~3x Blaster

DT: Venom...65 pts
~Splinter Cannonx2
~Flickerfield


that sound about right?

Sorry I was half asleep when I was posting that. I'm saying that the way I like to run my true born is with 2 dark lances and give the squad a venom. Put the squad in cover and have the venom fly around. That way you have anti tank and anti infantry from one Force Org slot.

If I was making the list I would make the two true born squads thee man squads with two dark lances. The rest of it seems good. It just might be a little hard to control objectives but that is a problem that warriors have.

Savist wrote:Sorry I was half asleep when I was posting that. I'm saying that the way I like to run my true born is with 2 dark lances and give the squad a venom. Put the squad in cover and have the venom fly around. That way you have anti tank and anti infantry from one Force Org slot.

If I was making the list I would make the two true born squads thee man squads with two dark lances. The rest of it seems good. It just might be a little hard to control objectives but that is a problem that warriors have.

the third trueborn would just have a regular splinter rifle or what? Seems like a waste to have an extra trueborn with no anti tank lol.

And i get what your saying, drop off the trueborn for anti tank then kill infantry with the venom :O

i actually like the haemonculi better than the duke for HQ choices, but if i stick them in the venoms with the trueborn, do they have to get out of the venom with the trueborn as well?
also i think im gonna stick with the blaster trueborn squad, just because it gives even more anti tank, albe it at lower range

so the warriors in the raiders will be anti infantry, im gonna keep one squad of trueborn anti infantry as well, just because the only mech the orks will be taking are kans and a trukk or two, so i think two ravagers with dark lances, three raiders with dark lances, and a squad of 4 blasters should be enough for that, plus the blasters in the raiders, but if you could give me another strategy for that i would love to hear it

I'm not a fan of Hexrifles, they seem quite impractical. You got one shot so you have to hit, then wound, then get past a save, then make the characteristic check. That's a lot of rolling you need to get through to get that ID. And of course your opponent could just allocate the wound to some random grunt rather than an IC. It might be better on MC's but why bother when you have all that poisoned weaponry?

asimo77 wrote:I'm not a fan of Hexrifles, they seem quite impractical. You got one shot so you have to hit, then wound, then get past a save, then make the characteristic check. That's a lot of rolling you need to get through to get that ID. And of course your opponent could just allocate the wound to some random grunt rather than an IC. It might be better on MC's but why bother when you have all that poisoned weaponry?

What do you suggest for a replacement? 'Nids have a lot of monstrous creatures, and it would be somewhat easy to take them down, and only one of the haemonculi have the hexrifle. Honestly, its not really one of my favorite weapons either, but it can get the job done.

Ok assuming they're sticking to a ranged role I think liquifiers are pretty good. Then there's the Shattershard which sounds like it could really mess people up (though I think it has some really dumb fluff : P). I don't see it often but I think the Archangel of Pain is a pretty swell piece of gear, it can reduce fearsome assault units into fodder for your swords.

Edit: Is the Dark Gate any good? I haven't ever seen it in action, sounds interesting to say the least. Also you said only one of the Haemonculi has a hexrifle but I'm seeing one on each on your first post. Is that a error in the list or typo on your previous post?

SomaRukido wrote:
-4x Kaballite Trueborn...120
~4x Blaster

I'm adding this squad up at 108 points. Did you buy 5 Trueborn here instead?

labmouse42 wrote:

SomaRukido wrote:
-4x Kaballite Trueborn...120
~4x Blaster

I'm adding this squad up at 108 points. Did you buy 5 Trueborn here instead?

yeah you're right that should be 108, probably added in an extra trueborn by mistake lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

asimo77 wrote:Ok assuming they're sticking to a ranged role I think liquifiers are pretty good. Then there's the Shattershard which sounds like it could really mess people up (though I think it has some really dumb fluff : P). I don't see it often but I think the Archangel of Pain is a pretty swell piece of gear, it can reduce fearsome assault units into fodder for your swords.

Edit: Is the Dark Gate any good? I haven't ever seen it in action, sounds interesting to say the least. Also you said only one of the Haemonculi has a hexrifle but I'm seeing one on each on your first post. Is that a error in the list or typo on your previous post?

typo in my previous post, thought one haemonculi had the hexrifle and one had a liquifier, my bad. since i messes up and accounted for an extra trueborn in one squad, i think im gonna give both a liquifier and a hexrifle, because i think theyre bith good ptions.

I actually don't use arcane wargear much, to make room for other improvements in the army, but I also wonder about the dark gate and shattershard/ pistol. I might try them in a more casual game, because i do wanna see how they play out

and the archangel of pain

asimo77 wrote:Ok assuming they're sticking to a ranged role I think liquifiers are pretty good. Then there's the Shattershard which sounds like it could really mess people up (though I think it has some really dumb fluff : P). I don't see it often but I think the Archangel of Pain is a pretty swell piece of gear, it can reduce fearsome assault units into fodder for your swords.

Edit: Is the Dark Gate any good? I haven't ever seen it in action, sounds interesting to say the least. Also you said only one of the Haemonculi has a hexrifle but I'm seeing one on each on your first post. Is that a error in the list or typo on your previous post?

well str 10 blast is always nice, even if it has no ap....and so isinstant death ignoring EW flamer....

And how is turning people into glass statues dumb?....its basically just a way for people to 'catch' the terror in the victim for all to see....i reckon that sounds pretty cool....


and normally if i have the points i will go hexrifle + shattershard or hexrifle + dark gate, that way i have a longer ranged instant death weapon that doesnt always work, but when stuff gets up close i have that big nasty one that has a better chance of causing some damage.....
can work really well for shooty haemonculi although i have yet to test it out

I think the Hexrifle turns people into glass, the Shattershard just...breaks them?

The reason I think it's silly is because it's pretty much magic. Most DE tech crosses or blurs the line between tech and magic, it's their theme, but the Shattershard hops in a Ravager and turbo-boosts over it.

I mean even the soul-tech is psuedo-explained by using harmonic wave length dissonance in conjucntion with the soul's blah blah blah. The Shattershard just makes no sense.

asimo77 wrote:I think the Hexrifle turns people into glass, the Shattershard just...breaks them?

The reason I think it's silly is because it's pretty much magic. Most DE tech crosses or blurs the line between tech and magic, it's their theme, but the Shattershard hops in a Ravager and turbo-boosts over it.

I mean even the soul-tech is psuedo-explained by using harmonic wave length dissonance in conjucntion with the soul's blah blah blah. The Shattershard just makes no sesne.

so the shattershard is basically a shard, that if someone sees their reflection in, they also shatter to pieces, that does sound a lot like magic lol

Edit: I actually think the casket of flensing is pretty, I would wanna see how that plays out in a game

The Casket is another "pretty much is magic" wargear. Though invisible lacerations isn't as farfetched as catching someones reflection and breaking it and the person.

Edit: Now that I think about it the Casket isn't as magical as I first thought

I like the revised list but do you really need the second Haemie?

Laosiamus wrote:I like the revised list but do you really need the second Haemie?

i've been thinking that too, but i don't know what to replace it with




Automatically Appended Next Post:

asimo77 wrote:The Casket is another "pretty much is magic" wargear. Though invisible lacerations isn't as farfetched as catching someones reflection and breaking it and the person.

Edit: Now that I think about it the Casket isn't as magical as I first thought

the casket is pretty cool, imo, get eaten alive by spirits that have been captured in other raids lol

Are they really spirits? That would explain some things. I always assumed it was some device that shot out waves of force/pressure but in such a fashion as to cause cuts rather than blunt trauma. I thought the "invisible imps" thing was a wive's tale sort of explanantion.

Back to the list I don't think there's anything wrong with 2 Haemonculi, they're pretty cheap and give you a pain token. They can keep your squishy Trueborn MSU's a little safer with FNP.

If you do get rid of one I would also be at a bit of a loss as to what to add. Maybe Nightshields on Venoms? Perhaps beef up the Reaver squad? A Talos could be interesting as well as Cronos for some pain tokens, however both are pretty slow without a WWP. But if you ditch the Haemonculus and are willing to cut some more stuff a 3rd Ravager would be pretty good.

asimo77 wrote:Are they really spirits? That would explain some things. I always assumed it was some device that shot out waves of force/pressure but in such a fashion as to cause cuts rather than blunt trauma. I thought the "invisible imps" thing was a wive's tale sort of explanantion.

Back to the list I don't think there's anything wrong with 2 Haemonculi, they're pretty cheap and give you a pain token. They can keep your squishy Trueborn MSU's a little safer with FNP.

If you do get rid of one I would also be at a bit of a loss as to what to add. Maybe Nightshields on Venoms? Perhaps beef up the Reaver squad? A Talos could be interesting as well as Cronos for some pain tokens, however both are pretty slow without a WWP. But if you ditch the Haemonculus and are willing to cut some more stuff a 3rd Ravager would be pretty good.

Well I don't know i think its spirits, cuz in the codex it says bite marks appear on the victim everywhere, and i dont know what else would cause that

I agree with the fact that i like the two haemonculi, protect my trueborn, and give me a couple of cool weapons, i say go for it lol, im gonna keep them

asimo77 wrote:I think the Hexrifle turns people into glass, the Shattershard just...breaks them?

The reason I think it's silly is because it's pretty much magic. Most DE tech crosses or blurs the line between tech and magic, it's their theme, but the Shattershard hops in a Ravager and turbo-boosts over it.

I mean even the soul-tech is psuedo-explained by using harmonic wave length dissonance in conjucntion with the soul's blah blah blah. The Shattershard just makes no sense.

Thats right, i couldnt remember which was the one that turned them into glass and i was too lazy to get my codex out then to double check...even though its on a shelf right behind me....

But your not quite right about the shattershard, i just read it, and like you said about DE tech bluring the line between tech and magic so does it, to a mortal it would appear more magic, but the shattershard is just a weaponised form of a transdimentional portal called the 'mirror of planes'.
The codex says that it catches the reflection of the victim and then it shatters, so the way i understand that the weapon works is basically it shoots out this fragment of the transd. portal which works by 'capturing' someones reflection and using that to in a way teleport them to another dimension that the portal is linked to, but what the DE have done is made it so that the shard shatters upon 'capturing' the targets reflection which in turn shatters the victim as they were partly transported into the other dimension.....
It kinda reminds me of dorian gray....which is the magic part about it, but in reality it is all tech, at least as far as i see it.

EDIT: Think of it this way...The shattershards come flying out and as they hit their target they are basically pulling the target into another dimension, but as the shards(the trand. portals) break the targets themself break....another way to look at it is....if you used a personal teleporter but it malfunctioned half way and was only able to teleport part of you, you would be dead wouldnt you?

SomaRukido wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Are they really spirits? That would explain some things. I always assumed it was some device that shot out waves of force/pressure but in such a fashion as to cause cuts rather than blunt trauma. I thought the "invisible imps" thing was a wive's tale sort of explanantion.

Back to the list I don't think there's anything wrong with 2 Haemonculi, they're pretty cheap and give you a pain token. They can keep your squishy Trueborn MSU's a little safer with FNP.

If you do get rid of one I would also be at a bit of a loss as to what to add. Maybe Nightshields on Venoms? Perhaps beef up the Reaver squad? A Talos could be interesting as well as Cronos for some pain tokens, however both are pretty slow without a WWP. But if you ditch the Haemonculus and are willing to cut some more stuff a 3rd Ravager would be pretty good.

Well I don't know i think its spirits, cuz in the codex it says bite marks appear on the victim everywhere, and i dont know what else would cause that

I agree with the fact that i like the two haemonculi, protect my trueborn, and give me a couple of cool weapons, i say go for it lol, im gonna keep them

The first line in the codex for the casket says "invisible spirits fly outwards towards the bearer's prey", so yeah i think its spirits.....that makes me think of the musicians in kung fu hustle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brh9onPbGfo

heres a link to the scene if you havent seen it...

Krushhk wrote:

asimo77 wrote:I think the Hexrifle turns people into glass, the Shattershard just...breaks them?

The reason I think it's silly is because it's pretty much magic. Most DE tech crosses or blurs the line between tech and magic, it's their theme, but the Shattershard hops in a Ravager and turbo-boosts over it.

I mean even the soul-tech is psuedo-explained by using harmonic wave length dissonance in conjucntion with the soul's blah blah blah. The Shattershard just makes no sense.

Thats right, i couldnt remember which was the one that turned them into glass and i was too lazy to get my codex out then to double check...even though its on a shelf right behind me....

But your not quite right about the shattershard, i just read it, and like you said about DE tech bluring the line between tech and magic so does it, to a mortal it would appear more magic, but the shattershard is just a weaponised form of a transdimentional portal called the 'mirror of planes'.
The codex says that it catches the reflection of the victim and then it shatters, so the way i understand that the weapon works is basically it shoots out this fragment of the transd. portal which works by 'capturing' someones reflection and using that to in a way teleport them to another dimension that the portal is linked to, but what the DE have done is made it so that the shard shatters upon 'capturing' the targets reflection which in turn shatters the victim as they were partly transported into the other dimension.....
It kinda reminds me of dorian gray....which is the magic part about it, but in reality it is all tech, at least as far as i see it.

EDIT: Think of it this way...The shattershards come flying out and as they hit their target they are basically pulling the target into another dimension, but as the shards(the trand. portals) break the targets themself break....another way to look at it is....if you used a personal teleporter but it malfunctioned half way and was only able to teleport part of you, you would be dead wouldnt you?

SomaRukido wrote:

asimo77 wrote:Are they really spirits? That would explain some things. I always assumed it was some device that shot out waves of force/pressure but in such a fashion as to cause cuts rather than blunt trauma. I thought the "invisible imps" thing was a wive's tale sort of explanantion.

Back to the list I don't think there's anything wrong with 2 Haemonculi, they're pretty cheap and give you a pain token. They can keep your squishy Trueborn MSU's a little safer with FNP.

If you do get rid of one I would also be at a bit of a loss as to what to add. Maybe Nightshields on Venoms? Perhaps beef up the Reaver squad? A Talos could be interesting as well as Cronos for some pain tokens, however both are pretty slow without a WWP. But if you ditch the Haemonculus and are willing to cut some more stuff a 3rd Ravager would be pretty good.

Well I don't know i think its spirits, cuz in the codex it says bite marks appear on the victim everywhere, and i dont know what else would cause that

I agree with the fact that i like the two haemonculi, protect my trueborn, and give me a couple of cool weapons, i say go for it lol, im gonna keep them

The first line in the codex for the casket says "invisible spirits fly outwards towards the bearer's prey", so yeah i think its spirits.....that makes me think of the musicians in kung fu hustle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brh9onPbGfo

heres a link to the scene if you havent seen it...

i like how this turned into a fluff discussion lol