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grenades. we all know them, Dr. Boom, Mrs,'Splode, but how can I throw them.

I usually use a sort of strength check and the small template for explosions and the big template for flashes (photon and the likes)
(frag: str-4 ap-3, photon, etc. if it hits a model it takes a pinning test, flash does not need to be infront of the model/s{haha, like C.O.D.-M.W.[1&2]})

what do you guys do?

same as in the default game. Given that the common guardsman has frag grenades, it'd be too much to have them all have blast weapons.

Str-4 Ap-3 Photon? You're crazy bro!

1.) Grayspark - no, str-4 ap-3 FRAG, we apologise for the bad listings. and yes im crazy and proud of it
2.) Melissia - ?, defaut game? too much to have them all have blast weapons. isnt grenades wargear? dont one of your models have to be holding grenades? I use tau (no, really, what a shock) and i can't remember too well but i think i have to choose frags as wargear and thats shown by that arm with the grenade, the squad has 6 grenades and if the guy with the grenade arm is killed then no more grendes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1.) Grayspark - no, str-4 ap-3 FRAG, we apologise for the bad listings. and yes im crazy and proud of it
2.) Melissia - ?, defaut game? too much to have them all have blast weapons. isnt grenades wargear? dont one of your models have to be holding grenades? I use tau (no, really, what a shock) and i can't remember too well but i think i have to choose frags as wargear and thats shown by that arm with the grenade, the squad has 6 grenades and if the guy with the grenade arm is killed then no more grendes.

All Guardsmen have frag grenades.

So do all Marines, whom also all have Krak Grenades too.

then i believe the players should sort something out an idea is half the squad(the small hall if it's an odd number) gets 2 and you gotta somehow keep track of who and how many(write it down, there is no problem with this as each of your miniatures is an individual and if you dont know and love each one then you should put them up for adoption to someone who will), please tell me what a krak grenade is

That sounds incredibly complex and pointless.

isnt it all?

S4 AP3 on a frag GRENADE? A frag missile isn't that powerful, and it is larger (and therefore contains more and larger fragments).

Note that a grenade blast probably isnt big enough to be attributed as a "blast" weapon in warhammer, also, if almost every other squad in warhammer had the ability to throw one small blast per model then the game would be bogged down by long periods of counting hits and calculating scatters. An easy way to represent such small blasts is simply giving them multiple shots, f.x a "tiny blast" translates to "assult 2" this also removes the very likely "stupid scatter" moments with grenade weapons (if all grens had 6" range, and used a blast template with the normal scatter rules, the odds of blowing your own squad up or scattering much further then throwing range are exeedingly high)

Grens could easily be used thusly:

Krak: rng 6" Str 6, ap 4, assult 1
Frag: rng 6" Str 3, ap -, assult 2
Photon: rng 6" str -, ap -, assult 1, pinning (a squad affected by photon grenades must test for pinning immediately)
Plasma: rng 6" str 3, ap 3, assult 2
Melta: Unmodified (it has to be fastened to the vehicle, that's melee no matter how i see it)
Grenades could also have their original effects in addition to the shooting rules, thus a squad with frag grenades could inflict multiple low-str hits on the enemy squad in addition to ignoring their cover.

Although im pretty sure that this is a fairly fair way to represent grenades, dont get me started on the balance issues if they changed grenades to work like this.
Naturally, this is a big change in the warhammer rules, so thered probably be tons of other changes, such as the re-invention of overwatch, new modes of travel (some sort of "tactical advance" rule that allows normal ranged units to move a few inches and still shoot, slower than "Slow and purposefull" but faster then no movement at-all) and other small but significant changes.
If they did make grenades into "weapons" as such, then they would probably also bring back point-costs for grenades back too.

Hi all.
The option for grenades to be used as as SINGLE suplimentary attack(EG only ONE model in a unit ,throws ONE greanade per shooting phase.)
Would allow grenades to be thrown as in 2nd ed , and have similar effects.

But rather than just restrict the amount of grenades thrown to a managable level ,GW chose to abstract thier effects...to fit with the rest of the abstractions in the current rules.

TTFN

la'DunX wrote:grenades. we all know them, Dr. Boom, Mrs,'Splode, but how can I throw them.

I usually use a sort of strength check and the small template for explosions and the big template for flashes (photon and the likes)
(frag: str-4 ap-3, photon, etc. if it hits a model it takes a pinning test, flash does not need to be infront of the model/s{haha, like C.O.D.-M.W.[1&2]})

what do you guys do?

How do you use a strength check? If this is a "Proposed Rules" thread, why does it read like this is a rules interpretation thread? You don't really put forth any rules, just the way you have decided to use grenades.

If we do have thrown grenades, then we'd also have to factor in the very real chance of the enemy picking it up and chucking it back before it goes off, making it even more complex. Unsure about plasma grenades or photons, but frag grenades would definately be caught and lobbed back.

Melissia wrote:That sounds incredibly complex and pointless.

This; I don't know about other armies, but every unit in the Chaos Space marine Codex comes with grenades.....

spawn has grenades?

Hi Avatar 720.

If we do have thrown grenades, then we'd also have to factor in the very real chance of the enemy picking it up and chucking it back before it goes off, making it even more complex.

Hmmm, and the fact that the target unit stands still while the enemy moves towards them, then shoots at them or possibly moves and assault them. Does'nt strike you as a bit abstract ?
But while under a hail of fire , (and probably taking cover) the chance that a targeted model MIGHT have a 100 to one chance of intercepting a thrown greanade bothers you?

TTFN

Hmmm, and the fact that the target unit stands still while the enemy moves towards them, then shoots at them or possibly moves and assault them. Does'nt strike you as a bit abstract ?

But they don't? Cover saves represent units moving into cover to take refuge, assault moves represent both sides charging towards the other; just because they stand still on the tabletop doesn't mean they would do it in what the tabletop represents.

But while under a hail of fire , (and probably taking cover) the chance that a targeted model MIGHT have a 100 to one chance of intercepting a thrown greanade bothers you?

Was that 100 to 1 chance calculated? Or just a figure you made up to support your argument? I have a feeling it's the latter.

Could you back up the ability to throw them back before they explode with historical precedence? I doubt a couple second fused explosive can be thrown back in ample time to damage the unit thew it to start with. It takes at least a second and a half to get it in the air, and if the grenade isn't directly caught, which is unlikely in a battle scenario, will take at least a second to pick up which would likely result in the guy who tries to pick it up getting his hands blown off.

Interesting idea with the grenades, I would play it as one of the guys has the grenades for this purpose while the others have the standard abstracted grenades. One small blast and perhaps a rule that it can only scatter directly away from the model that threw it.

Could you back up the ability to throw them back before they explode with historical precedence?

Certainly sir.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8556788.stm

I did a search of "threw" on Medal of Honor cites for half of the MoH for Vietnam, but I didn't find any cases where the recipient threw a grenade back; generally, its throwing themselves on a grenade. But, i only searched the first half of the first half, and with only a single term. *shrug*

Though, what, would a successful cover save represent kicking the grenade into a grenade sump?

Anyways. The thing that bothers me about grenades is that I don't see how it benefits models with lower initiative attacking models with higher initiative. At best, they go in initiative order.....and since practically everybody in the game has a higher initiative than Guardsmen, my Guardsmen still go last, but before Power Fists. At worst, if my Guardsmen charge through cover without frags....they.....go simultaneous with power fists? Which means, their attacks still land? Whoop-de-doo.

This is a bit pointless. This could cause a lot of difficulties and make a lot of squads over powered.

I just...er... use them in assault, duh.

frag grenades can be thrown in assault for a S4 hit against vehicles, which is plenty (especially for guardsmen).

I don't even use power fists and more. I always take melta bombs (8+2D6 against vehicles) and a power sword, which ends up being 5 points cheaper than a fist. Grenades are fine as they are, it's just up to you to remember that you actually have them.

The only change to the current grenades rule is that you should be ble to use them against MC's, much like the old Tyrannic War Vets. that way, les thatn superhuman units (gaurdsmen, Gaurdians, Fire Warriors) have somewhat of a chance when and if they recieve a charge from something nasty.

The Watcher wrote:The only change to the current grenades rule is that you should be ble to use them against MC's, much like the old Tyrannic War Vets. that way, les thatn superhuman units (gaurdsmen, Gaurdians, Fire Warriors) have somewhat of a chance when and if they recieve a charge from something nasty.

Cause tyranids need more ways to suck...how are you supposed to clamp a grenade onto a moving, scything, ripping, destructive monstrosity?

In all seriousness, I would like to see grenades go back to 4th ed rules...where the assaulter struck simultaneously with the assaultee. This would make assault grenades useful for everyone again instead of just higher I armies...lemme tell ya...stikkbomms are useless!

Avatar 720 wrote:

Could you back up the ability to throw them back before they explode with historical precedence?

Certainly sir.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8556788.stm

interesting, didn't really think it was all that possible. Thank you, sir.

Well, being able to use grenades more precisely against infantry rather than just saying "it negates the effect of cover in assaults" would certainly be interesting, but it would slow down the game a considerable amount. I like the idea of having one or two models in the squad throw grenades, much like soldiers would in real battles. For example, one Tau Fire Warrior throws a photon grenade and the others move froward. Making indivudal str and range values for each of the grenades really would be interesting and it would add an element of realism, but I don't think it will actually happen in the rules

Shake Zoola wrote:In all seriousness, I would like to see grenades go back to 4th ed rules...where the assaulter struck simultaneously with the assaultee. This would make assault grenades useful for everyone again instead of just higher I armies...lemme tell ya...stikkbomms are useless!

This. Frags are well-nigh useless on Guard against Power-Armored Freaks.