Gate of infinity while falling back

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**DeathReaper**

So this happened yesterday in a game. The Space marine Librarian and his squad lost a round of combat with some tyranids. they failed the leadership check and a sweeping advance was performed, the tyranids failed to catch the Librarian and his squad.

the tyranids consolidate to within 6" of the Librarian and his squad.

Can the Librarian use Gate of Infinity at the start of his movement phase to wisk himself and his squad to another part of the battlefield?

My thought was yes this is possible since the Psyker can use Psychic powers while falling back. another person was not sure, and another person said this was not possible.

I checked the rulebook, It seems clear to me, but how about everyone else?

**Galador**

Thats a good one.......

Honestly, I think its one of those vague areas that need a house rule or a agreed judgement, but if it was my call, I would say that unless he can regroup first(which he can't because the nids are within 6") if he uses it, he has to use it as a fallback move toward his table edge. That would be my own personal call because even though it says anywhere in the rules for gate of infinity, it states in fall back that they must move directly toward their own table edge. Now if someone says something else, I am always willing to listen, but thats my take on it.

(Not the greatest Space Marine player, just know I'm trying to help my oldest son learn to play with them.... god help me, he wants to be the Smurfs lol!!)

**Mannahnin**

I believe this works fine, DR. I can't recall there being any FAQ preventing it.

**bforber**

I agree with Galador in that you'd probably have to fallback towards your table edge, but I don't see any other reason why you couldn't.

**DeathReaper**

The logical next question would be, when to you attempt to regroup?

The BRB says they test: "In the movement phase just before they move" so can they use Gate of Infinity at the start of his movement phase then after they gate make the regroup test?

Or they use Gate of Infinity at the start of his movement phase after they test to regroup?

**lliadon**

the fall back rules state that the unit will fall back to its table edge instead of moving normally. however gate of infinity happens first since it is done at the beginning of the librarians movement phase before your required fall back movement so i see no reason why you cant use gate of infinity if your falling back

however the real question is since gate of infinity says the unit is removed from the table do they need to make a regroup test or is it auto passed since they leave the table entirely

**Galador**

Well, Gate of Infinity is their movement for that phase, so I would think they would have to try to regroup before they use it seeing as the rules state they test to regroup first. IF they can't cause the nids are within 6", then they should be able to port 19" (safe distance to be far enough from hormagaunts) then regroup next turn.

**Mannahnin**

GoI is used at the beginning of the phase. Attempts to Rally and Fall back moves are made when you go to activate that unit for movement. So you should be safe to teleport to a location where you can Rally.

**lliadon**

ya thats kinda what i thought but what happens to the unit since its removed from the table using GoI

Note: wait nm i just realized what i had said and what was going on

**Galador**

But seeing as GoI is their movement for the phase (unless I am missing reading something in my son's SM codex) that would be their movement, wouldn't it? They are removed from the table (movement?) and replaced anywhere within 24" using DS, so wouldn't you have to test for regroup BEFORE that, seeing as pg 46 of the BRB states that you take the test right BEFORE you move??? Or is this one of those ones that is instead of movement???

**DeathReaper**

They test to regroup: "In the movement phase just before they move" P.46 Main Rule book

Gate of Infinity is used "at the beginning of the Librarian's movement phase." P.57 Space Marine Codex.

so which is first? the beginning of the Librarian's movement phase, or In the movement phase just before they move.

I am inclined to say the one that says at the beginning goes before the one that says In the movement phase.

**Galador**

I agree with your view DeathRipper, but I still think it comes down to if you count being removed from the table and replaced on it using DS rules as movement.

I know I would personally say that I have no problem with the Librarian using it, but he has to test for regroup before it if he can and if he can't, he has to use it to move as per the fallback rules. In a just for fun game, if it was becoming an issue, I would just say roll a die on it and get on with the game.

**nsdocholiday**

the way the rules are for regroup when falling back is that the regroup attempt is happens before the movement phase since its a cumpolsory action, the issue is that you regroup 3 inches and that counts as your move. this is the same reason you cant use a veil lord to veil away either.

**Darkwynn**

GOI removes them from the table before they deep strike. Units falling back and go off the table count as destroyed. If you use GOI while fleeing you would be destroyed because you are removed from the table before you deep strike.

That would be my view

**DeathReaper**

Darkwynn wrote:GOI removes them from the table before they deep strike. Units falling back and go off the table count as destroyed. If you use GOI while fleeing you would be destroyed because you are removed from the table before you deep strike.

That would be my view

The Bold above is not 100% correct, you have to move into contact with the table edge to count as destroyed.

'If any model in the unit that is falling back moves into contact with a table edge, the entire unit is removed from the game and counts as destroyed...' P.45

**Ezekial**

IMHO:

Chronologically

1. Gate of infinity test (start of turn)

**movement phase for unit becomes active**

2. Regroup test! (fall back)

3. Gate movement

**Bat Manuel**

I don't have my book on me so I may be way off, but doesn't GOI say 'instead of normal movement'?... and if so is falling back normal movement?

**nsdocholiday**

yes falling back is a cumpolsory movement, even if you regroup you count as moving therefore GOI cant be used even if regrouped.

**DeathReaper**

Bat Manuel wrote:I don't have my book on me so I may be way off, but doesn't GOI say 'instead of normal movement'?... and if so is falling back normal movement?

Here is what Gate Of Infinity says:

"This power is used at the beginning of the Librarian's movement phase. The Librarian, and any unit he is with, are removed from the tabletop and immediately placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules. If the librarian travels alone, there is no risk, but if he takes a unit with him, there is a chance something will go wrong. If the deep strike attempt scatters and a double is rolled, one member of the unit, chosen by the controlling player, is claimed by the warp and removed as a casualty (The survivors scatter normally)." P.57 Space Marine Codex

So it is not "Instead of normal movement" you use the deep strike rules at 'the beginning of the Librarian's movement phase.'

nsdocholiday wrote:yes falling back is a cumpolsory movement, even if you regroup you count as moving therefore GOI cant be used even if regrouped.

I could not find "falling back is a cumpolsory movement" in the book anywhere, What are you referring to?

Why not? (for the bold above) Shouldn't it happen at "the beginning of the Librarian's movement phase."?

**yakface**

No, Gate of Infinity may not be used by a Librarian that is falling back. Here is why:

1) A unit that is falling back must perform a fall back move. This is a non-optional requirement dictated by the rules.

2) Gate of Infinity, if successfully used, results in the Librarian making a (non-standard) move (as models arriving by Deep Strike have moved) which would then prevent the Librarian from making a Fall Back move (as units that arrive by Deep Strike cannot move any further).

Therefore, successful use of Gate of Infinity attempt would prevent the unit from following a rule that it must follow (it must make a fall back move) and thus cannot be performed.

Gate of Infinity happens at the start of the movement phase...this is NOT before the movement phase, it is the *start* of the phase...in other words, the first action you must take in the movement phase.

So if you have a Librarian that is falling back at the start of the turn and you wish you use Gate of Infinity (which is movement) you would first have to attempt to regroup. If you do regroup then the Librarian could use Gate of Infinity as normal (as Space Marines are able to move normally when they regroup), but if you can't regroup (because the enemy is too close, for example) then you must follow the rules for falling back and make a normal fall back move.

And FYI, the other two powers that use a similar mechanic in the game (Necrons Veil of Darkness & Eldar Skyleap) both state in the official GW FAQs that they cannot be used when the unit is falling back, and especially with the Veil of Darkness, the wording about being used at the 'start of the movement phase' is functionally identical.