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I haven't played 40k in many years, and I have been lurking on dakka for the past couple of months trying to decide what army to play, what list to put together, and gleaning a tremendous amount of information about painting and modeling. Thank you all very much! I have settled on orks, picked up some models (which I am in the process of re-painting, will be posting to appropriate forums once in a more settled state), and think that I have absorbed a decent amount of lurker-input on general 5th ed ork tactics to finally put a list together. I am aiming for a competitive list, but some of the unit selections are out of financial necessity (what I could score for cheap on craigslist and/or cannibalize), and I have made a few selections that just seem like fun. The one I have for review is a 2k list, and I get the idea that it seems that standard these days is 1500 or 1750, and I am going to try to figure those out as well. Anyway, here's the list:

HQ:
Big Mek (KFF, PK, BP, Cybork) – 125
Warboss (Mega Armor, Cybork, BP, Atack Squig) – 130

Elites:
Lootas x5 - 75
Lootas x5 - 75
MegaNobz x5 (shoota-skorchas, BW [rpj, gr, dr, ap]) - 350

Troops:
Slugga Boyz x30 (PK Nob w/BP) - 220
Slugga Boyz x30 (PK Nob w/BP) - 220
Slugga Boyz x30 (PK Nob w/ BP, 3RLs) - 250
Deff Dread (4DCCW, riggers, AP) – 120
Burna Boyz x10 - 150

Heavy Support:
Deff Dread (2 skorchas, riggers, AP) – 100
Battlewagon (rpj, gr, dr, ap) - 170

Total: 1945 pts.

I was thinking that the Big Mek would go in the BW with the burnas, with the dreds running on it's flanks, getting KFF coverage for the first stretch. Tank shock, torch em, then burnas assault. Deff Dreads as fire magnets, and ideally as counter-charge. Slugga boys running (obvious), or acting as an anvil, with two BW hammers. Lootas on AT, some support from the 3RL sluggas (ideally an objective holding unit). I wanted to put in a Big Gunz unit, but I need to shave off some points to bring it in as a 2k list.
What I know needs work, and what I know will not be popular:
1. Lack of Anti-Tank: This is why for the Big Gunz!
2. Slugga Boyz: I know that Mathhammer says shootaz are better. I recognize that, but have gone with sluggaz because I think they will fit better to my playstyle (as I remember it) and they are what I already have modeled. I am not re-modeling 90 painted orks, damn it.
3. 4DCCW Dred: Yeah, I know it's a risk that he'll never even see combat, and yes I was just complaining about not having enough anti-tank, but their BS sucks anyway, and a 4DCCW dred is just too cool to pass up.
I am sure that other problems with my logic will be dragged into the light of dakka's collective wisdom, and I look forward to any and all CC. Thanks!

Hmm, seems good-But for footslogging I'll say-

Liking the deffdreads, but you may want to drop the Burnas for a full mob of Sluggas, and kep them fairly spread out. An IG tank squadron or two would wipe them otherwise

Try the warboss and megaarmour nobz in the battlewagon. Zoom up and wreak havoc. Keep the lootas back and go crazy with them.

All IMO would be good ideas

Hello friend,
There is one thing that is illegal in the list and it is the burnas are Elites not troops however the meganobz are troops since you have a warboss so you can switch them around to sort that out.
After that you have 4 vehicles in your list. The current metagame centers around 9-14 vehicles so everyone brings enough AV for that.. As it's only 4 vehicles they will be torrented by heavy weapons and the 2 Dreads will be out of KFF protection by turn 2.
I would probably focus either on BW or on footsloggers, that way your amy hits the enemy lines all together instead of in waves and you can maximize it's effectiveness by building on sunergy. Indeed a green tide of 150-180 orks with kommandos and lootas really messes up the current metagame...
Focus on your armys "theme" and fine tweaking follows that!

Vehicles and walkers do not mix, Orks need to go one way or else the walkers will get left behind.

@DrownedRat: I'm down for more sluggaz, I was initially intending this to be primarily a horde army. I'm hesitant to give up the burnas as they are relatively cheap and very killy in the first two rounds when mounted in the BW. I was intending for the warboss to be in the DT BW with the meganobz.

@snozcumber: You are right, the burnas and meganobz will be switched, that's what I get for posting after midnight. I think that you are right about finding a theme and sticking to it, but isn't there a way to successfully combine footsloggers with faster elements? I may just be spreading myself too thin. I was selecting units based on their individual combat roles, but maybe I should have spent more time on how the mesh within the 5th ed meta. I played 2nd and 3rd ed, so there were not typically 9-14 vehicles on the table, I was generally more focused on taking out elite units.

@mercer: I was thinking that with running slugga boyz being the base of the list, that if it was not practical for the DDs to run with the Big Mek's BW that they could hang back with the running mob and act as a counter-charge. Since I already have a green wave running up the field, it ight make the DDs less of a target for small arms fire.

The point is the units on foot will fall behind and leave the faster Battlewagon. You will attack the opponent in two split forces which is easier to deal with from your opponents point of view. He can also target prioritise easier as well making everything walker together, which ends up being a waste of certain choices.

'course, that's if you don't just move the Battlewagons slower.

But you could keep the Burnas just as easily in a footslogging army, since they really aren't any slower than the regular boyz. Yeah, they can get a lot of hits from a transport, but it'll only be maybe 2 or 3 fewer on foot (if you cover them with other squads, and the KFF.)

Something else to think about, is that you might want to put a burna on the Mek instead of a PK. They do best out of combat, as support players, and the Burna is plenty decent in those rare close combat situations, since you can use it as a power weapon. I'd go (if you're doing pure footsloggers without any battlewagons) with the Deffdreads, still, (maybe even add a third) and just have the Mek following behind them, ready to do B2B to fix any immobilized results, and giving them the KFF bonus. I'd honestly arrange the whole army with the tide of boyz in the front, and use the Mek and the Dreds as a dead killy core, drawing fire away from the front ranks as you march up the table. That way they're also quickly available, not only to join in assaults at the front, but to take on outflankers and deepstrickers trying to come in from the back.

@mercer: anvil kind of had my thought process down. This build would focus on hitting on turn 2 or turn 1 if I got second move. I know that the general philosophy is to run the transports fast, like a KoS build, but I am thinking a hybrid transport/horde list could be successful. Not focusing on speed might also make rokkits on the BW's more viable, adding some cheap anti-tank.

@anvil: if I go full footslog, I will definitely keep the burnas. I really like the idea of them bombing around in a bw for the added mobility, protection, and optimized shooting. Also, the combo of burnas and a deff rolla is just mean. I would like to take a third dred in this list, just could not find the room. In a footslogger, I think that a 3rd dred and aa kannon battery would replace the bw's.

In a footslogging list, do meganobz really have a place? It seems like you have to get them a transport, and what I have seen echoed in other threads is that a trukk doesn't cut it. Too many points in a cardboard box.

Really depends. Do you have luck with run and SnP rolls? If it's on a board that's full of terrain, yeah, I could see them being useful, since they don't have any difference in how they move in dangerous terrain. If they only had a heavy weapon option, the Relentless would be useful, but as it is, they're really best in a transport. Maybe get them a cheap truck then keep it near the KFF until you want to punch out into something else.

Twinkle Starchild wrote:@mercer: anvil kind of had my thought process down. This build would focus on hitting on turn 2 or turn 1 if I got second move. I know that the general philosophy is to run the transports fast, like a KoS build, but I am thinking a hybrid transport/horde list could be successful. Not focusing on speed might also make rokkits on the BW's more viable, adding some cheap anti-tank.

Why would you move a battlewagon 6" to keep everything together when it can move 12" Orks bail out 2" and assault 6"? Bad unit synergy, you're holding one unit back taking a disadvantage. Rokkits do not make Battlewagons viable either. Deffrollas make Battlewagons viable, infact Battlewagons are viable anyway. Anyway, it's not about a particular style of build it's getting your army to work together and maximising useage out of units.

You'd move it 6 or 12" the first turn to keep it with the front lines of your army, then use its speed and assault range the next turn to hit something in the back of the enemies army while your footsloggers hit the front.

Most tables are only 4' wide, the orky player is going to start on the 12" mark. Run 12 inches the first turn, and if the enemy doesn't pull back, pop your Waaagh!! on the second turn for an 18" assault with da boyz and the BW. With a Green Tide, you're going to be able to cover the board width, and very few, if any, players are going to deploy, keep or move their armies and units into the 6" closest to the table edge.

Oh, and Rokkits SO make a BW more viable. 4 rokkits on a single battlewagon were able to stop a Land Raider Crusader in its tracks from Turn 2 in one of my games, and even if only a single rokkit hits a Meq squad, that's probably going to be 1 Meq down, which in those non-horde armies, is a significant fraction of the squad.

Anvildude wrote:You'd move it 6 or 12" the first turn to keep it with the front lines of your army, then use its speed and assault range the next turn to hit something in the back of the enemies army while your footsloggers hit the front.

Most tables are only 4' wide, the orky player is going to start on the 12" mark. Run 12 inches the first turn, and if the enemy doesn't pull back, pop your Waaagh!! on the second turn for an 18" assault with da boyz and the BW. With a Green Tide, you're going to be able to cover the board width, and very few, if any, players are going to deploy, keep or move their armies and units into the 6" closest to the table edge.

Oh, and Rokkits SO make a BW more viable. 4 rokkits on a single battlewagon were able to stop a Land Raider Crusader in its tracks from Turn 2 in one of my games, and even if only a single rokkit hits a Meq squad, that's probably going to be 1 Meq down, which in those non-horde armies, is a significant fraction of the squad.

If rokkits on BW are "SO" viable why did it only work ONE time.

Anvildude wrote:You'd move it 6 or 12" the first turn to keep it with the front lines of your army, then use its speed and assault range the next turn to hit something in the back of the enemies army while your footsloggers hit the front.

Most tables are only 4' wide, the orky player is going to start on the 12" mark. Run 12 inches the first turn, and if the enemy doesn't pull back, pop your Waaagh!! on the second turn for an 18" assault with da boyz and the BW. With a Green Tide, you're going to be able to cover the board width, and very few, if any, players are going to deploy, keep or move their armies and units into the 6" closest to the table edge.

Oh, and Rokkits SO make a BW more viable. 4 rokkits on a single battlewagon were able to stop a Land Raider Crusader in its tracks from Turn 2 in one of my games, and even if only a single rokkit hits a Meq squad, that's probably going to be 1 Meq down, which in those non-horde armies, is a significant fraction of the squad.

you listening to yourself, if you move it 12" then it leaves the Kanz behind...

HOw can you run 12" when you move 6" and run move is a random D6?

you have on clue do you about Orks? If you take 4 rokkits on a Wagon then it cannot move and Orks need to be in assault and if you really did stop a Crusader all I can is you got very lucky and killing a single Marine is hardly anything to write home about when you will be assaulting and killing loads more...

Honestly, you know nothing about Orks at all. I would stop posting on Ork lists if I was you, I'm embarrassed for you

HA! Fair enough. Honestly, I've not gotten to play many games- my FLGS is going over to Warmachine and Flames; It's only worked once cause I've only had that loadout once. And I completely forgot about the d6 run move.

you're a nut case. If you haven't got many games in then why you giving advice especially when something has only worked once? Doh! :(

@mercer: I think what anvil meant to say was that you would be moving and running 6-12", it doesn't matter. 6" movement + Run 1d6+ 6" move+ waagh 6"+ Assault 6" = 24 + 1d6". That means more than assault range on 2nd turn, which is the point. I also was not saying that rokkits make BW's more viable, the BW is obviously viable, it's the ork army's only tank. I was saying that not focusing on speeding the tank up the field, because they are not going to be hitting on round one anyway, has the added benefit that you can fire more guns from the BW. SOP is don't put much in the way of guns on your transports, but put at least one so that it isn't immobilized by a weapon destroyed. This makes the ROKKITS a more viable upgrade for the BW, and in larger numbers. There are no kanz in the list that I posted. If you mean the dreds, it is assumed that in the first round where they are running up with the boyz, preferably covered by the KFF (it's really not hard to keep units within 6" of each other), that you are not just leaving them out in the open. The BW with the Mek in it would be an excellent piece of moving cover, since it is spending that first turn hanging back a bit. So even on a board that is free from terrain, LoS could still be blocked. You keep saying that they are being left behind, but when is that happening if you don't rush the tanks forward?

No, the point is you don't get 6" for running all the time. The maximum assault range you can get is 18" which is 6" moving, running and assault. If you're in a vehicle it's 26" which is 12" moving, 2" bail out 6" run and 6" assault which is a massive difference. The key word here is maximum as you cannot presume you will always get 6" for run etc, but it's something you can consider. Big difference as it's not auto like suggested.

You can't fire more guns from the Battlewagon, it needs to be stationary to fire more than one..so there's no benefit, except for passengers firing but the point is you're not getting into assault where Orks need to be and holding a unit back to support another which is entirely my point. With the Wagon you could move up bail out, shoot and then assault. With my Battlewagon spam army I do move 6" but I'm keeping everything together and then can speed off, together, later, not leave something behind later.

You're still missing the point that Wagons are hanging about for the walkers, whether Kanz or Dreads they're still walkers.

Anyway, leave you to it. Offered advice up to you if you want to use it not.

Personally I just think it's about time someone mixes things up in the tactics and army lists. Everywhere you look, it's Battlewagon spam, Nothing But Boys, or Kan Wall. What about Bubblewrapping some Dredds in Boyz? Or using a Battlewagon's AV14 as a wall in front of a mob of walkers? Just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you always should, even as an Ork. The tactics I've been looking at don't have you assaulting on the first turn, that's not the point. They're second turn assault tactics, for use against armies that like to stay back and shoot. You have the Green Tide, you don't need to worry about 1 turn of shooting.

@mercer: You're right, I reviewed the rules and realized the two flaws in my logic. For some reason fleet of foot from the waagh was registering in my brain as guaranteed 6" movement, not just the ability to assault after running. I was also under the impression that vehicles could fire half of their weapons after 6" movement, not just one. Mea culpa. Goes to show you what ten years away from the game can do to you. If you haven't already, don't have kids, they play hell on your gaming schedule.

So, really what we are looking at for foot-slogging troops is 18" guaranteed (2 moves, one assault) + 2d6 in the first two turns, with the waagh called on the second turn. If the BW's stayed stationary on the first turn (allowing them to fire all weapons), they can move on the second turn as you suggested ( 12" move, 2" bail, 1d6 run, 6") on the second turn, which would have the vehicles and the troops arriving at the same time in a cohesive wave on turn two. The walkers would be running along with the troops, so they would also be arriving in assault range on round 2. Again, I do not see where they are being left behind.

Disadvantages: Sure, you are sacrificing a turn of combat for the units in the BW's, and instead relying on Ork BS to score some hits in the first round, which can be a dodgy proposition. Granted, this list also relies on not completely botching run rolls (as would any foot slogging CC list).

Advantages: A hybrid army allows you to have both mobile units that can deliver a hefty payload quickly (BW's), and a strong foot slogging force to back them up. Your concern about coming in waves can be addressed by holding the BW's back for a turn, which also gives them the opportunity to act as anti-tank units (something that this list is kind of hurting for, as I stated before). In many circumstances it is not going to matter if you strike in two waves, especially if the one is shortly followed by the other, and it is not a dragged out process. I think that the CC nature of the slower units would address this as you are not wasting points on high strength guns in the units that are bringing up the rear.

All of this movement discussion has also been predicated on the notion that the enemy will not be moving any closer to you on their turns, and that they do not have deep-striking or infiltrating units on the table in the first two rounds. Not all opponents are going to keep their units inside their deployment zone. Having the rollers on the BW's gives them the opportunity to just roll over and burn tarpit units on the first turn, or early in the second. Scout units can be mowed down in their cover by a BW packing heat, again on the first turn. I actually think that in a list like this BW's are actually made more effective by allowing them to serve multiple battlefield roles.

It seems that the meta-game these days is all about mech, and that popping transport so as to get at the nougaty center is a major concern. If you load up the BW's with max rokkits (8 for 2), hold them back for a turn so that they can fire, the chances are that you are going to at least glance, and probably penetrate 1 or 2 light transports. This, without delaying your troops from advancing by putting the rokkits with them, and all units are arriving in CC at the same time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@anvil: You are right in that. Barring KoS style trukk boys, you will not be engaging in assault the first turn with boyz at all. People tend to play to an army's strengths, and that is crucial. You also have to play to an armies weaknesses. Orks can assault as a force on the first turn if the boyz are all in trukks. The problem with putting boyz in trukks is that you are also cutting the mob number down by half. One of the greatest strengths the orks have is the strength of numbers. One of the greatest weaknesses is that boyz are not that durable in small numbers. Also, each turkk is the cost of almost 6 boyz. I am not saying that KoS builds or that trukk spam doesn't work, of course it works. Otherwise it would not get as much play time as it does. The problem with it is that you are sacrificing 6 boyz per truck in cost, and when those cardboard boxes get popped, they will dump their cargo wherever they are, including right on the starting line if you go second.
One of the buzzwords on this forum is synergy. While I kind of find that funny, as that word will always have the stain of late '80s corporate culture, it is an apt way to describe differing elements working together to accomplish what they could not otherwise accomplish on their own. The keyword here is differing units. While the units in a spam list setup may have differences, those differences are not as profound as their similarities. Slugga Boyz in trukkz are fast, hit hard in CC, and are small in number. Warbikers are fast, hit harder in CC, and are (generally) smaller in number. Nob bikerz are fast, hit very hard in CC, and are again small in numbers. Really, these three units are variations of the same theme. While I recognize that there are differences, and that each can be geared or played so as to suit several battlefield roles, ultimately they are more similar than not.
Actual synergy would be figuring out how to take radically different units, and gear/play them in such a way that they compensate for each others weaknesses.

Twinkle Starchild wrote:@mercer: You're right, I reviewed the rules and realized the two flaws in my logic. For some reason fleet of foot from the waagh was registering in my brain as guaranteed 6" movement, not just the ability to assault after running. I was also under the impression that vehicles could fire half of their weapons after 6" movement, not just one. Mea culpa. Goes to show you what ten years away from the game can do to you. If you haven't already, don't have kids, they play hell on your gaming schedule.

So, really what we are looking at for foot-slogging troops is 18" guaranteed (2 moves, one assault) + 2d6 in the first two turns, with the waagh called on the second turn. If the BW's stayed stationary on the first turn (allowing them to fire all weapons), they can move on the second turn as you suggested ( 12" move, 2" bail, 1d6 run, 6") on the second turn, which would have the vehicles and the troops arriving at the same time in a cohesive wave on turn two. The walkers would be running along with the troops, so they would also be arriving in assault range on round 2. Again, I do not see where they are being left behind.

Disadvantages: Sure, you are sacrificing a turn of combat for the units in the BW's, and instead relying on Ork BS to score some hits in the first round, which can be a dodgy proposition. Granted, this list also relies on not completely botching run rolls (as would any foot slogging CC list).

Advantages: A hybrid army allows you to have both mobile units that can deliver a hefty payload quickly (BW's), and a strong foot slogging force to back them up. Your concern about coming in waves can be addressed by holding the BW's back for a turn, which also gives them the opportunity to act as anti-tank units (something that this list is kind of hurting for, as I stated before). In many circumstances it is not going to matter if you strike in two waves, especially if the one is shortly followed by the other, and it is not a dragged out process. I think that the CC nature of the slower units would address this as you are not wasting points on high strength guns in the units that are bringing up the rear.

All of this movement discussion has also been predicated on the notion that the enemy will not be moving any closer to you on their turns, and that they do not have deep-striking or infiltrating units on the table in the first two rounds. Not all opponents are going to keep their units inside their deployment zone. Having the rollers on the BW's gives them the opportunity to just roll over and burn tarpit units on the first turn, or early in the second. Scout units can be mowed down in their cover by a BW packing heat, again on the first turn. I actually think that in a list like this BW's are actually made more effective by allowing them to serve multiple battlefield roles.

It seems that the meta-game these days is all about mech, and that popping transport so as to get at the nougaty center is a major concern. If you load up the BW's with max rokkits (8 for 2), hold them back for a turn so that they can fire, the chances are that you are going to at least glance, and probably penetrate 1 or 2 light transports. This, without delaying your troops from advancing by putting the rokkits with them, and all units are arriving in CC at the same time.

Every day is a school day and yeah I've got kids, two year old Daughter and 4 month old Boy. Daughter likes playing with Space Marines and steals my Razorbacks and then brings them back and drives them over my RoB!

This is your problem: Disadvantages: Sure, you are sacrificing a turn of combat for the units in the BW's, and instead relying on Ork BS to score some hits in the first round, which can be a dodgy proposition. Granted, this list also relies on not completely botching run rolls (as would any foot slogging CC list).

See you're running a hybrid list which means you're holding something back to support something else, as I keep mentioning. You're not using something to the best it's abilities and not getting the most out of it, thus wasting it. If you want to hold a Wagon back to shoot then that means the Orks inside are not assaulting or moving forward; kind of a waste. When you do move the Wagon forward you cannot fire those weapons, a waste. It's all about using units correctly and getting the most out of them and synergy with the other units. See if you're infantry is moving 6" and lets say running 4" average that's 2" behind the Wagons, not a lot but over time that gap will spread the Wagons get taken out or bogged in terrain or the infantry and other factors. You're just not getting the most out of the units you have, which also leads to a easy defeat because the opponent can target prioritise what they want to take out making it easier to beat you. Also, if you want a stationary shooting Wagon get Lootas, far better

All the advantages you mentioned are not advantages at all but disadvantages. Holding a transport back to shoot running Boyz on foot without real cover and there won't be waves when the opponent destroys the limited transports you have

Again, you hold the Battlewagon back you're not using it for what it's designed for. Get Lootas and those rokkits are only 24" range the opponent if they have a brain won't deploy 12" close to you which means those rokkits will be out of range :( . What you are doing is delaying units getting into c.c by keeping them with others on foot, bad synergy it just doesn't work. If you want all units to arrive in c.c at the sametime then put them all on foot or all in transports hybrid Ork lists just don't work. What you're doing is not using units to their strengths.

Good luck with it.

You know, if you eat Spaghetti with a spoon instead of soup, you're not wasting the spoon. Just using it differently. Is it less efficient? Sure. Does it get food into your mouth? Yes, yes it does.

Sure, the Battlewagon is most often used to smash into enemy lines, but what is, in actuality, the main purpose of a Battlewagon? I believe that it's main purpose is to be a heavily armoured weapons platform. Now whether those weapons are primarily made up of Boyz, or Nobz or whatever, or Rokkits, or it's Deffrolla, doesn't really matter to me. What matters is that it has the Orks only AV14 on the front, and with Armour and a KFF, becomes even more survivable. This means that if it can't survive one or two rounds of shooting from across the board, well, you're either incredibly unlucky, or your opponent probably has an Anti-armour heavy list, which plays right in to the mob of boyz coming up behind, which, incedentally, have been covered by the BW and KFF.

The point with a Footslogging list (apparently with any Ork list, it seems) is to not come at them in Waves, but all at once. The worst that can happen (okay, maybe not worst) is that the BW gets blown up or immobilized on the first turn. The Mek could repair the Immobliized, and if blown up, well, you just end up with a pure Footslogging list instead of using that Battlewagon to, hey, guess what it just did, soaked up some of the enemy firepower!

So yeah, Battlewagons are cheap enough that you don't need to have them surviving for seven turns, running around and killing things. But they should be able to survive one or two rounds to get the boyz to the front lines.

The main purpose of a Battlewagon is actually confused. It has a large transport ability or can take loads of guns. If you take loads of guns you cannot move so transport wasted, if you move you cannot fire so wasted. Either way something is wasted. So you use it for one thing and one thing only, and that's more likely carrying elite units or large mobz. You don't use it as a fire base because you can get a lot better shooting units for cheaper i.e Lootas & Big Gunz.

Also your defination of weapons platform is wrong..

You're still missing the point. Battlewagon isn't being used probably. Do you really play Orks?

I think mercer as he said he is just coming back from a muli-edition brake. He chose orks because they look like fun.

I flgs is changing over than there are not alot of heavy duty tournie style players for you to go against. Get the stuff you want to model/ paint or use in games and build your army from experience.


even if you took all of our advice and built the "Uber" list you would still have to get over your learning curve. Thus, go forth my friend and have fun killing some plastic models with cool looking dice.

Honestly, most of what I post here is pure opinion and supposition. I never actually expected to be taken as seriously as I seem to be. Guess that either means my points have more merit to them than I thought, or else my fancy language attracts fancy arguers (and I love 'debating' things!)

And yes, I do play Orks, however, I only have a single night a week I can play, only ever manage (at most) one game on that night, and yeah, I've rarely won. BUT! I'm learning, having fun, and experimenting with things. I'll personally never have a huge footslogger list (I like my armour too much) but I think that there's good reason to mix things up a little from the 'main' builds Orks have now. And honestly, do you think your enemy ever expects you to NOT shoot your Battlewagon straight at them?

Heck, I'm building (yeah, building, not buying) a unit of Tankbustas right now, not because I want to be contrary to everyone saying they're rubbish, but because they sound like Orky fun and I've got a new appreciation for Rokkits. Actually, I might just post my army list on Dakka, see what folks think of it...

@ mercer: You are a braver man than me. My daughter is 3 months shy of two, and she is allowed nowhere near my gear. She is actually shooting me the stink eye at this moment for typing on the computer rather than playing with her, so I will make this post brief. Would a fully decked out gunwagon be a waste in a full mech army, or in a footsloggin army as a heavy support? Would a stripped down transport wagon be a waste in a KoS build? Why can't hybrids of the two be effective in a hybrid army? You describe holding the bw back to shoot as a disadvantage, but holding back a all guns wagon so that it can shoot is sensible in a horde or all-mech build. Running boyz on foot does not equate to running them without cover. That is what terrain and one to two rounds of close proximity to a KFF mek are for.

@bigmek: I appreciate the encouragement, I intend to have a good time with the greenskins. I don't, however, have much interest in just picking up models and trying them out. I have to do this on a budget, so I am trying to get a clear vision of what I want my army to be. I am just trying to figure out if there are some non-traditional routes that I can take to a successful build. I'm not looking for an uber-list. I am just looking for an effective list that does not fall into the exact same pattern as every other build that is touted on this forum as "competitive". If you are going to do something, why not do something innovative?

@anvil: The enemy's gate is down!

I've had a lot of success with the Mad Dok in a footslogger list, the Mad Dok with 30 boyz with cybork armor and feel no pain is insane! Sure they have to pursue the closest enemy which can make them prone to kiting, but lootas should be able to destroy or immobilize anything that would kite them. I've had this one unit destroy 2 assault squads and 2 terminator squads.

@Hargus: Sounds interesting, I will have to look into that as an option. Seems that the cost associated with making the boyz cyborks might be somewhat prohibitive in a low-points list, but I will definitely do some calculations...

Anvildude wrote:Honestly, most of what I post here is pure opinion and supposition. I never actually expected to be taken as seriously as I seem to be. Guess that either means my points have more merit to them than I thought, or else my fancy language attracts fancy arguers (and I love 'debating' things!)

And yes, I do play Orks, however, I only have a single night a week I can play, only ever manage (at most) one game on that night, and yeah, I've rarely won. BUT! I'm learning, having fun, and experimenting with things. I'll personally never have a huge footslogger list (I like my armour too much) but I think that there's good reason to mix things up a little from the 'main' builds Orks have now. And honestly, do you think your enemy ever expects you to NOT shoot your Battlewagon straight at them?

Heck, I'm building (yeah, building, not buying) a unit of Tankbustas right now, not because I want to be contrary to everyone saying they're rubbish, but because they sound like Orky fun and I've got a new appreciation for Rokkits. Actually, I might just post my army list on Dakka, see what folks think of it...

No offenswe but that's where you advice is pale against mine because I've been playing longer, play more games a week, win more than I lose and have better tactical knowledge knowing what works and doesn't work

Twinkle Starchild wrote:@ mercer: You are a braver man than me. My daughter is 3 months shy of two, and she is allowed nowhere near my gear. She is actually shooting me the stink eye at this moment for typing on the computer rather than playing with her, so I will make this post brief. Would a fully decked out gunwagon be a waste in a full mech army, or in a footsloggin army as a heavy support? Would a stripped down transport wagon be a waste in a KoS build? Why can't hybrids of the two be effective in a hybrid army? You describe holding the bw back to shoot as a disadvantage, but holding back a all guns wagon so that it can shoot is sensible in a horde or all-mech build. Running boyz on foot does not equate to running them without cover. That is what terrain and one to two rounds of close proximity to a KFF mek are for.

I actually get my stuff stolen and took in the lounge. She once posted the small blast under the tv and I couldn't find it for ages . At the moment she's rating Carnifexes playing with them going raaar . If not she's sitting opposite me throwing playdough :( .

Why a fully decked out Wagon would be wasteful in a mech army? Because as I said earlier it can only move and fire one weapon. If you stay static the Orks inside are not getting anyway. I run my Battlewagons with a single big shoota and then with 20 Boyz. I move them 12" and then within 18" range to a opponent I unleash shootas to soften them up, then next turn I move up 12" bail out shoot and assault. Each time that Wagon is being used to potential. With them being heavy loaded they cannot move which means not being used for a transport or if they move they're shooting so the unit isn't being used well. Being sensible is taking anti tank units i.e Lootas or Big Gunz and Deffkopters and use these to pop the tanks at range, the Wagons move up use deffrollas if needed bail out and assault. You hold the Wagons back they're not being a transport which means Orks don't reach combat I honestly cannot see why you don't see this and see it as a advantage. Transport units are meant to transport, not sit there and shoot.

Btw this is a mech army:

HQ

1 x Warboss power klaw, attack squig & cybork body
1 x Big Mek kustom force field

Elite

5 x Lootas
5 x Lootas
4 x Nobz w/ Battlewagon power klaw, 2 x big choppas, waaagh! Banner, bosspole, cybork bodies & Painboy - Wagon w/ big shoota & deffrolla

Troops

5 x Nobz w/ Battlewagon power klaw, 3 x big choppas, waaagh! Banner, bosspole,cybork bodies & Painboy - Wagon w/ big shoota & deffrolla
20 x Shoota Boyz Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
20 x Shoota Boyz Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
20 x Shoota Boyz Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
15 x Gretchin Runtherd w/ grot-pod

Fast Attack

1 x Deffcopter twin-linked rokkits & 1 x buzzsaw
1 x Deffcopter twin-linked rokkits & 1 x buzzsaw

Heavy Support

1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deffrolla
1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deffrolla
1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deffrolla