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I am setting up a IG army and looking at many be taking allies. I have seen the rules on DH and WH but is there any others as sometimes the fluff holds out. eg Eldar they seem to get to know and cooperate with most imperial races. Orks can be tricked or deals be made. Kroot there mercenaries.

What are peoples view on actually including 1 or even a few into a army?

Dullblade35

Really depends who you are playing, you won't be allowed to use them tournaments, and probably not in GW stores. Local gaming clubs may let you, and in friendly games it should be OK. I Usually take some kroot mercs at FLGC, and they are generally fine with it

It's pretty much up to whoever you're playing against. Helps to have some uncompetitive friends who are more of the beer & pretzels kind of gamer. There's nothing wrong with wanting to bend the rules. Just don't have the expectation to be able to do it in tournaments, or against strangers.

pg 21, Daemonhunters Codex and page 25 of the Witch Hunters Codex both state you may bring a certain number of units into an existing Imperial Guard army. So, whether or not you have permission, it will be legal to include either of these groups into an Imperial Guard army.

At least until the new codexes come out...

Well, Deamonhunters is valid for another month, and abusing the WH allies rules is a good way to get oneself labeled as TFG. YMMV.

Thanks

Is DH and WH the only official armies you can have as allies then I take it?

I might have see what's worth having in my army, any suggestions?

Commander Endova wrote:Well, Deamonhunters is valid for another month, and abusing the WH allies rules is a good way to get oneself labeled as TFG. YMMV.

How does using the rules turn into abusing the rules? It is clearly stated how Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters may be incorporated into Space Marine and Imperial Guard armies. This isn't the recurring "can I use a Baneblade outside of Apocalypse?" thread. This is a legitimate question that was answered simply by reading the rules.

I never said merely taking allies is equal to abuse, or at least, that is not what I intended to say.

Quite simply, where I play, no one really likes rules that interrupt the turn sequence, such as mystics giving your opponent free shots when you deep strike. That's about it, really.

Regardless, legal or not, I'm glad inter-codex allies are going the way of the Dodo. They cause far more issues than they were worth.

I dunno...it takes some of what makes the Inquisition special away...

Though it does allow them to be more of their own army (yet they forget to put Stormtroopers into the codex...)

But, fluff-wise, the Inquisition (let's begin...) would be on the front lines supporting the troops. It would only be in a truly dire situation that the Inquisition (look out, sin...) would go whole hog into combat on their own. What is so wrong with using the Inquisition's new rules will be here soon, and they'll be here to stay for a while. I would hope that Games Workshop wouldn't completely disregard the carefully crafted back story of yet another army just to make the game more friendly. No body expects the (Spanish) Inquisition to be a nice and easy army to play, and against certain units, both sides of it are pretty weak. Let those gaps be filled by the guys who would be working with them: Space Marines and Imperial Guard!

For sure! That's the fun of running various Ordos in your army. Remember when an assassin could be allied to any imperial army? I run a combined WH, AdM army using SpaceMarine rules for AdM. As long as I use two Force Charts my army is legal. Likewise CSM and Daemon Army as allies. We didn't start wargaming to become dogmatic slaves to the RULEZ. If your army is filled with fluff then I don't see any reason why you couldn't ally with anyone. eg IG outpost assaulted by Genestealers but the back story could have been that DE showed up and had the IG in thral,l to open the main gates or whatever, hey presto IG and DE allies. Use your imagination

dullblade35 wrote:Is DH and WH the only official armies you can have as allies then I take it?

Commander Endova wrote:Well, Deamonhunters is valid for another month, and abusing the WH allies rules is a good way to get oneself labeled as TFG. YMMV.

Well, accept that 3rd edition rules are a thing of the past. GW is explicit that they don't support allies rules for several years, even omitting the allies rules from the current pdf-Codices. Allies are only supported in Apocalypse games for a reason, as free mixes of different armies break the game balance. Your only solution is taking other models "counting as" IG units, but be careful to stay within reasonable limits.

3rd edition rules are still applicable when in a codex. Yes, Imperial Guard and Space Marines are still permitted to be used as allies with Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle, as their codexes both specifically state this, therefore superceding any elimination of the allies rule from 4th and 5th editions.

Long story short, no permission is required, just play!

Planning, buying and painting a big expensive army that is legal for one month might lead to disappointment

And you can't force anyone to play against outdated cheese from 3rd edition.

So, I didn't have to play that guy who plays Necrons? Shoot, could have saved myself that one...

So the answer to my question is either use as counts as or ask the person playing me?
Thanks people.

I'm with SoloFalcon here. WH and DH options are still legal for you to use (for now!). And it's a TFG who says otherwise.

dullblade35 wrote:Is DH and WH the only official armies you can have as allies then I take it?

Pretty much. Unless you're playing Apocalypse, which doesn't use the Force Org Chart, and lets you choose units from whatever codexes you want.

Rochronos wrote:We didn't start wargaming to become dogmatic slaves to the RULEZ.

You didn't start playing a game so that you would be forced to follow the rules? That seems incredibly weird to me.

dullblade35 wrote:So the answer to my question is either use as counts as or ask the person playing me?
Thanks people.

That's my take on it (well, if you include the 1 month legality with Grey Knights and 6-12 months legality with Sororitas and Apocalypse games). And be aware that GW wants to get rid of the Allies rule for years (see also Fantasy Dogs of War non-support), so you have been warned

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:So, I didn't have to play that guy who plays Necrons? Shoot, could have saved myself that one...

That's right: In friendly games you decide who you play with, and you don't even have to give a reason for not playing.
Only if you voluntarily take part in a tournament or campaign can you be "forced" to play against people or amries that you don't want to play against. That's why cooperation and friendliness helps in this hobby

Both of the DH and WH codex allow you to take allies,DH will go away in a when the new codex comes out. That does not however stop you from using the witchhunter codex to get your allies.I know i am going to keep using the allies rules to get my vindicare into my armies.

The great thing about IG is that if you're creative they can be allied with almost any other army in terms of fluff (I'm not gonna get in on rules since I only do allies in apocalypse). I'll leave out the other Imperial factions.

Tyranids: Yes that's right Tyranids, there is something called a gene stealer cult and entire planets have been enthralled by it. Genestealers reproduce by implanting apart of their genetics into a host, they can then controle the mind of that host. Then when the host has children those genetics are passed on creating a genestealer hybrid. If this cult spread throughout a planets command structure then the planets PDF (IG who defend their own home planet) would be under the command of the Tyranids.

Tau Empire: The Tau have a belief called the Greater Good, they believe that in order to prevent destruction the factions of the galaxy have to unite together. They welcome many differant races into their Empire including humans and it isn't a rare sight to see humans soldiers in the Tau Empire.

Orks: The Orks have 2 groups that have been known to fight alongside humans, Freebooters are mercenaries and pirates who will work for whoever pays them enough while the Blood Axe clan uses alot of tactics that normal Orks woulden't and have been known to even parle with their enemies and chances are they could be hired to fight alongside an IG regiment (one that was either very desperate or very relaxed about fighting alongside aliens).

Chaos Space Marines: Awhile back there was an official army called The Lost and The Damned, it was basically an army of mutants and guardsmen who had turned to Chaos. Well the IG codex makes it very easy to represent your IG as Chaos Traitors, these traitors will often fight alongside or under Chaos Space Marines. Sometimes when a world rebels they will summon Chaos Marines to their planet.

Daemons of Chaos: Lets say a regiment of guard turns to Chaos and butchers the populous of a number of planets in the name of the gods. Loyal forces come to rescue the planets but all of the sacrifices and killing have torn holes into the warp and now daemons are fighting alongside their gods newest servants.

Eldar: IG and Eldar fighting alongside eachother would most likely be because they shared a common enemy or goal not because they'd get to know eachother. The Eldar will always do what they think is best for themselves (and sometimes the greater galaxy) and if fighting alongside IG helps them achieve their goal then they'll do it.

Dark Eldar: This is one of those that probably woulden't happen, the only way I could see it happening is if a corrupt company commander or planetary leader paid Dark eldar (for whatever reason) to fight alongside his regiment in exhange for slaves.

Necrons: While the Necrons are currently focused on harvesting for the C'tan there will come a time when the C'tan have slated most of there hunger and instead of harvesting they will start enslaving the rest of the galaxy. And besides that there are cultures that have worshiped the C'tan (more so the Deciever) besides the Necrons, so say an Imperial planet starts to suffer plagues and missfortune and the populous can't figure out why (caused by the Deciever) and then a mysterious being (the Deciever) appears that causes all of the problems to go away. The populous start to worship the Deciever over the Emperor because he saved them, then all of the regiments raised from that planet are loyal to the Deciever and would fight alongside the Necrons.

Well there are a few fluff reasons as to why IG could ally with any of these armies

Kroothawk wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:So, I didn't have to play that guy who plays Necrons? Shoot, could have saved myself that one...

That's right: In friendly games you decide who you play with, and you don't even have to give a reason for not playing.
Only if you voluntarily take part in a tournament or campaign can you be "forced" to play against people or amries that you don't want to play against. That's why cooperation and friendliness helps in this hobby

I was referring to your earlier statement that 3rd edition rules no longer apply, so the 3rd edition codex my Necron opponent was playing was invalid?

Wow thanks Ironskull The tau seem a likely ally, so do the eldar ( they've helped out Inquisitors, they like that there psykers )

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I was referring to your earlier statement that 3rd edition rules no longer apply, so the 3rd edition codex my Necron opponent was playing was invalid?

Read my post again. Then you understand my answer.

dullblade35 wrote:Thanks

Is DH and WH the only official armies you can have as allies then I take it?

I might have see what's worth having in my army, any suggestions?

Yep, those are the only allies rules still around. Note that the PDF codex doesn't have the ally rules in it - you need to buy a print codex (and they're not available any more).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:And you can't force anyone to play against outdated cheese from 3rd edition.

C:WH is cheese? Really?

dullblade35 wrote:Wow thanks Ironskull The tau seem a likely ally, so do the eldar ( they've helped out Inquisitors, they like that there psykers )

If you want to do Tau search for Gue'vesa Imperial Guard

I always thought using the Allies rule from DH/WH was a bit disengenous. Expecially the way they are in the Power Gamer IG lists.....having 95% IG and then using a completely different Codex to add a Mystic or Assasin....

I get the reasons for it....and it does fill in some gaps in the IG list but i believe that if the IG were to use allies it would be in the IG codex...not the other way around....ex. if you use Allies from the WH codex then 75% of your army must be from the WH codex...not 5% WH and 95% IG as it is in most allied lists.

Dogface 76 wrote:I always thought using the Allies rule from DH/WH was a bit disengenous. Expecially the way they are in the Power Gamer IG lists.....having 95% IG and then using a completely different Codex to add a Mystic or Assasin....

I get the reasons for it....and it does fill in some gaps in the IG list but i believe that if the IG were to use allies it would be in the IG codex...not the other way around....ex. if you use Allies from the WH codex then 75% of your army must be from the WH codex...not 5% WH and 95% IG as it is in most allied lists.

You do realise that the rules in WH/DH specifically cover using an IG list and adding allies from the WH/DH codexes? And that you can only add a very small amount of stuff?

I do. I just think the Allies rule should be applied/written to the IG codex. If you did not know of the DH/WH allies rule in their Codex you would be unaware of any ability to add Inquisition troops to your IG list...

I do understand the fluffy side of the Inquisition sequestering whole army groups for use. but i just believe the Allies aspect should be in the IG dex.