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I love the look and feel of Eldar but, as a SM player, I cannot even begin to imagine how difficult they would be to play with.

What would a newb hammer eldar force look like at 1500 or so?

This is definitely open ended but I really do like every unit in the dex.

At this time I have no preference between mech, foot, walker, or Saim Hann (sp.?). I just want a copetitive eldar force that doesn't require a veteran's generalship to enjoy.

Let's begin at Eldrad and move forward from there

Well the eldar are a fun race but to keep it simple, I would go with Dire Avengers in Wave Serpents, Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents, Fire Prisms and War Walkers. This makes your army very mobile and very firepower oriented. Add in a farseer - perhaps even Eldrad and that will get you into the psychic synergy that is the eldar.

So...

Eldrad

2x5xFD in Wave Serpent

2x8xDA + Exarch + Blade storm in Wave Serpent

2x Fire Prism

1x3x TL Scatter Laser WWs

how is that to start?
How many points would something like this be?
Am I way over the 1500 mark?
What about upgrades?

Mech eldar is definitely king, but jetseer council is full of JSJ goodness. A bike farseer with 5-7 bike warlocks, 2-3 units of 6x guardian bikes with cannons and a warlock backing each up with Destructor or Embolden, and finally twin Fire Prisms. Add units to flavor - I find Harlies and Spiders to be nice pairings and Fritz from Way of Saim-Hann likes Vypers with Starcannons.

Welcome to the Righteous Path of the Warrior, brother!

Not sure if you are just planning to go out and buy stuff or if you have things to borrow...

At 1500 start with a list like:


Farseer w/ Runes of Warding/Witnessing, Doom

2x 5 Fire Dragons
2x Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser

3x 5 Dire Avengers
2x Wave Serpent w/ Eldar Missle Launcher
1x Wave Serpent w/ Bright Lance

3x Fire Prism

This list will give you the basic building blocks to go from, while making a very fast and competitive list. Biggest change from SM is you really have to decide when to shoot and when to flee, Eldar are all about movement and dirty tricks. The rolling up with Rhinos and getting out to shoot/assault mentality will get you shoved into the fail corner.

For the list above you are look at purchasing:
Farseer, 10 Fire Dragons (2 boxes), 15 Dire Avengers (3 Boxes), 5 Wave Serpents, 3 Fire Prisms. Around $520 retail, but second hand you should be able to get in a lot cheaper.

My personal preference is to have Eldrad in my lists. He is one of the most versatile and useful HQs in the entire game.

Also, you generally want Spirit Stones on all your vehicles. Remember, even if they don't have any guns, they can still flat-out and be strength 10 tank ramming missiles or flat-out and contest objectives (I've won/tied so many games by doing that at the last minute).

Fire Prisms are generally some of the nastiest vehicles in the whole game, and ridiculously hard to kill if they have halo-fields. They're kind of meant to be anti-heavy vehicle, but I find that Fire Dragons work best in that role (better, IMO than vehicles armed with Brightlances), and Fire Prisms can alternate between anti-horde and anti-light transport. Plus an AP2 small blast is great.

Pretty much the only thing to keep in mind when making an Eldar list is that each squad needs 1 single purpose, and they should stick to it. Also, that 99% of all units should be in vehicles, or deep striking Heavy Flamers will DECIMATE them.

Just to follow up on some of the advise from above:

- Eldrad is good for almsot every list, but as a starting Eldar player take the time to use jsu a normal farseer so you can feel the benefit that Eldrad gives you

- Spirit stones are not a necessity in the slightest. 10pts to negate a 17% chance of happening is hardly a necessity, unless it's vehicles with Holofields, inwhich case you are negating a much larger pool of the results. Prisms and Nightspinners however shouldn't need Spiritstones since they should enver be close enough for it to be a worry. Save the 10-90pts of allthe hiolofields and get some worthwhile upgrades.

- Prisms are meant to have a wide range of uses and are particularly nasty when guided by a farseer. This will essentially turn them into a TL 60" blast lascannon for those heavy armor targets or medium vehicles. if you ahve fire dragons these should be allocated to Landraiders etc.

So fire dragons are more akin to melta vets.

Why prisms over War Walkers besides movement? On paper War walkers seem to be able to pump out tons more fire power per point.

Do vipers fill the same role as SM land speeders?

I'd not recomend 5 man dire avenger units if you are just starting out... They are simply there to make a tank scoring and give no showing of what eldar infantry can do. I'd take a full squad with 2 cats and bladestorm.

We wish vypers were like land speeders... But they are av 10 and open topped... They fill the same roll as warwalkers- for more points and added mobility, which let's them do some screening as well.

Other units that can be good in a mech list that haven't really been mentioned include small jetbike squads, storm guardians in a serpent, warp spiders, and possibly banshees if you like having a cc unit around.

The most die hard competitive lists will- of course- be avengers dragons serpents and prisms

I got excited for Eldar again with the news of a codex update sometime before 2015. I have also gotten a lot more experience with 40K in general. So with a quick revisit to the above comments. I have changed the list ever so slightly for a beginning 1250-1500pt list

Farseer+goodies
2x5x DA in Wave Serpent
2x5x FD in Wava Serpent
2x Fire Prism
1x Night Spinner (seen these bad boys in action and seem as indespensable as Eldrad)

This looks pretty tasty at this point level considering the high price paid for transports. Thoughts?

Farseer+Runes of Warding+Doom+Guide

5x Pathfinders
5x DA in Wave Serpent+star engines
5x DA in Wave Serpent

5x FD in Wava Serpent+spirit stones
5x FD in Wava Serpent

2x Fire Prism
1x Night Spinner
------------------------------------
1250???

I do not have the night spinner in my 2006 dex. I assume it is in IA. Can someone please confirm that this list is 1250 pts? Does this look competitive?

This really does come up alot

Night Spinner Rules are on the Games Workshop Website, a quick google search will pull them up
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=15100016a

As for the list itself, it looks damn solid for 1250. Just a couple of things as follows.

Pathfinders suck harder than a slutty cheerleader at the prom after glow. If you can swap them out for a Guardian Jetbike Squad, or just ditch them entirely your list will be in better shape.

The other problem is the Farseer having 2 powers but only being able to cast 1 per turn. So either find the points for spirit stones or drop guide, no sense paying for powers you can't use.

Also what weapons are you putting on your Wave Serpents. By leaving it totally blank I guess i assume you are packing Shuriken Cannons? Well since this is over 1000 I would suggest you start bringing Scatter Lasers instead.

Seen some good eldar lists rocking farseer/eldrad, small guardian/direavenger squads in serpent, vipors, night spinner, firedragons in serpent and maybe 1-2 fireprisms. The farseer/eldrad is amazing for what they bring and their anti psyker is top notch. The spinner does wonders vs draigo, gaunt blobs, ork boyz etc. Peaople swear by the walkers but I have limited exp there so can't get to in depth.

Draigo wrote:Seen some good eldar lists rocking farseer/eldrad, small guardian/direavenger squads in serpent, vipors, night spinner, firedragons in serpent and maybe 1-2 fireprisms. The farseer/eldrad is amazing for what they bring and their anti psyker is top notch. The spinner does wonders vs draigo, gaunt blobs, ork boyz etc. Peaople swear by the walkers but I have limited exp there so can't get to in depth.

Walkers are pretty cheap for what they do. Armed with SL, you can get 24 S6 shots at 36". They are armour 10 on all sides so you don't really expect them to last long.

The pathfinders have good rules on paper for objective camping but are really really friggin expensive!

I will look into guardian jet bikes perhaps. Mobile and scoring versus scoring and hard to move.

Also I will shave the extra power off the farseer. Are there any defensive spells a farseer can cast in the opposing players turn?

Thanks for the night spinner rules.

There are no defensive powers no sorry, without spirit stones there is no point taking 2 powers although warlocks can cash conceal which grants a 5+ cover save and that is about 35 points I think including warlock for 25. bikes are also so worth it I haven't lost an objective game because of eldar cheesy zooming in on turn 5 to contest/take lol. If you can fit them put holo-fields on your fire prisms/night spinner as they make them so hard to take out combine this with turbo boost on turn 5/6 and the objective is minimum contested, well worth the 35 points.

oh i forgot about tank shocking objectives with a turbo boost while ignoring intervening terrain! good call! Pathfinders are definitely out now.

I want long ranged firepower and survivablility so here is what I am going to play.

Eldrad

5xFiredragons in TL BL Wave Serpent with Stones

3x 5 man Dire Avengers

3 x EML Falcons with Holofields, Stones and Star Engines

2 x 3 Vyper Squadrons with Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon.

I have enough points left to either go with a 2nd Fire Dragon squad, 10 Pathfinders or 3 x 3 GJB squadrons of 3.

The idea is to pick of the medium/light vehicles with the falcons. Shoot the snot out of anything on foot with the vypers and send the fire dragons after the land raiders/monoliths. Eldrad will guide either falcons or vyper squadrons and doom one squad of the enemy each turn. Doom is awesome with pathfinders or with any S4 weapons fire.

I have found that once the eldar have you on foot, they pretty much rule the battlefield.

DAaddict wrote:I want long ranged firepower and survivablility so here is what I am going to play.

Eldrad

5xFiredragons in TL BL Wave Serpent with Stones

3x 5 man Dire Avengers

3 x EML Falcons with Holofields, Stones and Star Engines

2 x 3 Vyper Squadrons with Scatter Laser and Shuriken Cannon.

I have enough points left to either go with a 2nd Fire Dragon squad, 10 Pathfinders or 3 x 3 GJB squadrons of 3.

The idea is to pick of the medium/light vehicles with the falcons. Shoot the snot out of anything on foot with the vypers and send the fire dragons after the land raiders/monoliths. Eldrad will guide either falcons or vyper squadrons and doom one squad of the enemy each turn. Doom is awesome with pathfinders or with any S4 weapons fire.

I have found that once the eldar have you on foot, they pretty much rule the battlefield.

Now I fully admit I have never played Eldar before but aren't you making target priority very easy for your opponent with the above list? There is no saturation of like targets.

The Vypers will die in about 10 seconds, the Falcons will be shaken most of the game, and the Fire Dragon squad will manage to down one high AV.

Pathfinders won't fit the list at all, GJB need an embolden lock with them, and a 2nd Fire Dragon squad is good but troops are more sorely needed there.

Would someone please compare and contrast Fire Prisms and Falcons, please? Fire Prisms look incredible and the different firing modes makes them seem to be an auto-include over the falcon. The Falcon seems to be just a high strength, high output gunboat kinda like a blood angels predator tank.

Am I missing something?

Different roles.

Falcons are taken as a long range scoring gunboat with 3 S8 shots and 5 DA inside. They are meant to stay at long range and pop shots at their target while protecting their scoring cargo. Holofields and Stones are a must rounding out the package with DA at a total of 240 pts.

Prisms are variable utility between s9 shot on vehicles or s5 shot against infantry. Take 2+ of these for maximum benefit and make use of their linked beams when you need it. These should be taken with Holofields at a minimum, but preferably stones too. This comes in at 150-160pts.

It all comes down to a few things:
- Do you have enough anti infantry to dedicate a heavy slot to pure anti-AV?

- Do you have enough points to get your DA all in serpents to take a prism?

- Do you have 2 heavy slots to fit 2 prisms?

- Do you have guide available? Well both technically need guide, but prisms more so if they won't be linking.

i found this to be very helpful just now: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/402275.page

i am pretty impressed with myself having not read it prior to coming up with my core list which is almost exactly what is called for above. I really do ant to start small as I already have my primary army.

I am going to stick with the 2x Prisms and single Spinner.