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I was wondering, if/since Codex: Grey Knights is going to do away with inducted units, what would happen to the infamous Leafblower List (which has a Daemonhunter Inquisitor as an Elite Choice)?

What exactly do you define as a leafblower list?

Lord Castellan wrote:I was wondering, if/since Codex: Grey Knights is going to do away with inducted units, what would happen to the infamous Leafblower List (which has a Daemonhunter Inquisitor as an Elite Choice)?

My guess is: it will no longer have an elite inquisitor.

Honestly, every mech guard list nowadays gets called leafblower, so theres so much variation between "leafblowers" ( at least what gets called that). Many of those don't even run any allies.

It won't change much of anything, however, if they do get a str 7 rending psycannon all over the place...that may shake things up a bit.

Agreed, just about anything with a Chimera is now a "leafblower", even if it shares almost none of the same units with the original BoLS list (which honestly, could have been scarier), and very little is likely to change in all honesty either way.

Vaktathi wrote:Agreed, just about anything with a Chimera is now a "leafblower", even if it shares almost none of the same units with the original BoLS list (which honestly, could have been scarier), and very little is likely to change in all honesty either way.

The truly funny thing is the "original" leafblower list is actually pretty bad in the metagame currently, but the more mechanized guard lists (not leafblower style that spam artillery/alpha shooting) do alright.

I was actually talking about the 'classic' leafblower list that came from BoLS. According to my calculations, a Daemonhunter Inquisitor given the wargear in the Leafblower List would come up to about 114 points. I was just wondering what people would do with the spare 114 points when Codex: GK comes out.

Could be another couple infantry squads, maybe extra armor upgrades, stubbers, maybe swapping out some stuff for another mechvet unit or whatnot.

Hunter killer missiles, thats what i would do anyway, though some prefer heavy stubbers, it comes down to taste, I think you'lll find that a lot of 40k players don't use cookie cutter lists, instead they take the basic idea and sub in what works for them.

That's another 2 Chimeras (empty ones admittedly) if you REALLY want more armour on the table.

Cerebrium wrote:That's another 2 Chimeras (empty ones admittedly) if you REALLY want more armour on the table.

Mind you, you can't buy a chimera without buying the squad.

If you'd like feedback on how someone would tweak the original classic list given the extra 114 points, why not post up the original list? For the life of me I can't exactly recall how it was built, other than the plethora of template weaponry.

114 points is well on the way to 2 more hydras if you trim the fat off of something else.

Vaktathi wrote:Agreed, just about anything with a Chimera is now a "leafblower", even if it shares almost none of the same units with the original BoLS list (which honestly, could have been scarier), and very little is likely to change in all honesty either way.

Name one way the original Leafblower could have been any scarier. It is the epitome of win. I couldnt even fathom a list able to beat it for those points.

The leafblower will simply have to get first turn, and hope the enemy isnt DOA or drop pod oriented. It still has potential, but it is for all intents and purposes no longer 'Ard Boyz level of win.

Unless the new GK codex does not lawfully replace daemonhunters.

This list you mean?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html

Take the powerfists out of the command squads, take only 1 OoF and Astropath instead of 2 of each.

Swapped the Valks for Vendettas

Dropped Demolitions from the Mechvets units.

That gives you more lascannons and points to buy more mechvets or another Vendetta, or give the platoon more chimeras.

Jaon wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Agreed, just about anything with a Chimera is now a "leafblower", even if it shares almost none of the same units with the original BoLS list (which honestly, could have been scarier), and very little is likely to change in all honesty either way.

Name one way the original Leafblower could have been any scarier. It is the epitome of win. I couldnt even fathom a list able to beat it for those points.

The leafblower will simply have to get first turn, and hope the enemy isnt DOA or drop pod oriented. It still has potential, but it is for all intents and purposes no longer 'Ard Boyz level of win.

Unless the new GK codex does not lawfully replace daemonhunters.

I'm hoping you were being sarcastic about the original leaf blower...

but just in case: people lost to the leaf blower list because they didn't know how to play against it. People didn't want to all reserve, and we didn't have fast books like blood angels on the scene.

Problems with "leaf blower" as linked:
1) Power fists on command squads are wasted
2) Master of the fleet isn't good, and since most missions involve objectives, can sometimes keep things from coming on so you can kill them
3) Rocket pod valk's suck. I know some people like them, but compared to their lascannon cousin, they just suck. They were taken as an avenue to spam more templates, it's not a good choice.
4) Medusas are overpriced, shoot one template, and get shot to hell since they need to be visible. These would have always been better as manticores (which is one change most people made to it)
5) It's a very linear strategy and list. As soon as you read it, you should realize what it is trying to do, so it's easily disrupted.

targetawg wrote:

Problems with "leaf blower" as linked:
1) Power fists on command squads are wasted
2) Master of the fleet isn't good, and since most missions involve objectives, can sometimes keep things from coming on so you can kill them
3) Rocket pod valk's suck. I know some people like them, but compared to their lascannon cousin, they just suck. They were taken as an avenue to spam more templates, it's not a good choice.
4) Medusas are overpriced, shoot one template, and get shot to hell since they need to be visible. These would have always been better as manticores (which is one change most people made to it)
5) It's a very linear strategy and list. As soon as you read it, you should realize what it is trying to do, so it's easily disrupted.

Even if you fix those things, it's still not a great list. Yeah, it's scary. It's got a lot of stuff firing at you, that's going to cause a lot of hurt. It'll trash you quick if you're doing something like a braindead Rhino rush forward while screaming "SPESS MURHEENS!", but who actually does that anymore? I like to think of it as Fool's Checkmate rolled up into a glass cannon. If you don't go first, you'll likely crumple. If you're dealing with a clever outflank army, you'll likely crumple. If you're dealing with nightfight, well, it certainly won't help you.

How do you beat it? Droppod with multimelta dread, or combimelta sternguard. Maybe one of each. My brain is foggy, but mystics are 4d6" range right? okay, 4-24" range, 14" average. I think I could still take my pick of an decent part of an IG army with that threat range. Not SM? No problem. IG would deep strike meltastormies to harsh effect as well. Combine that with an outflanking element and the leafblower has to watch it's flanks as much as the other end of the table.

Again, alternate deployment is scissors to alpha strike's paper. Gone are the days of the Rhino Rush.

I'm not a huge proponent of 'the leafblowarz!' as seen on BoLs, but it's foolish to discount mechguard because of alternate deployment.

Manticores, Plasma Executioners, and Vendettas all get to utilize the vast majority of their firepower the turn they show up from reserves at +1 to the roll. Mechvet chimeras are horribly viable when rolling up on freshly deepstruck squads.

In short, mech IG are a gunline that reacts well from an alternate deployment. The only thing that truly hurts them is persistent night fight rules.

sourclams wrote:
Manticores, Plasma Executioners, and Vendettas all get to utilize the vast majority of their firepower the turn they show up from reserves at +1 to the roll. Mechvet chimeras are horribly viable when rolling up on freshly deepstruck squads.

Vendettas must move more than 6" to get completely on the board.

sourclams wrote:
Manticores, Plasma Executioners, and Vendettas all get to utilize the vast majority of their firepower the turn they show up from reserves at +1 to the roll. Mechvet chimeras are horribly viable when rolling up on freshly deepstruck squads.

Oh, largely agreed, but if I'm playing against "the 'blowerz" and I can get two suicide squads deep struck close enough to your Medusae and Manticore to end them (not hard with squadroned vehicles and meltas), then you're screwed. Sure you'll kill my sacrificial lamb, but that won't change the fact that you're still left without any long range antitank. I can do this on my first turn thanks to derp pod assault, and even if I can't get rid of the Manticore and I focus directly on the Medusae, the only things you are left with that can ignore MEQ armor saves are 12-24 inch range, depending on which heavy weapons you took in your infantry squad.

I know a lot of it would come down to deployment, first turn, and luck, but I'm saying that it's far from unstoppable. Not even close.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And leafblower guy would go first every time anyway. With a list like that, assuming I won the roll, I'd give him first turn and lead in with the drop pods. He'd be crazy not to take first turn if he won the roll, in which case I would do the same thing.

DarknessEternal wrote:

sourclams wrote:
Vendettas must move more than 6" to get completely on the board.

They are able to move on and pivot such that the entire base is on the table without having moved more than 6".

You must point at your target at an angle to do so, but it's quite possible.