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I've acquired a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer box and can't seem to decide between which Raider.

Which Raider would be better for an all around list?

the only one that can fire every gun while moving: the Crusader.

The redeemer is a great idea, but Flamestorms are only worthwhile on a fast vehicle, and even then only 1 of them.

The Redeemer always wastes a gun, be that 1 of the flamestorms or the Assault cannon. Placing the MM on it is a laughably bad choice for the same reason.

The crusader can take a storm bolter and MM and fire every gun it has after moving 6".

Crusader also carries more. Overall as an assault transport the Crusader is better. The Redeemer is more of an assault mtb.

Magnetise the frakk out of it and have both! Its really easy to do with the new plastic kit. Just drill out 3mm holes in the sockets and stubs where you plant the guns in and insert 3mm x 2mm magnets. Works perfectly! (I'll try to get some pics of my 2 Land raiders today)

Yep, the correct answer is have both.

Actually, the best answer is to buy a lascannon raider and then order the crusader/redeemer weapon sprue from bitz. Then you have all three.

Even manage to get 4 if you buy the predator upgrade sprue and get yourself some lascannon sponsons. Voila youve got a terminus ready there (just like i do, 4 in 1 LRs ).

Riddick40k wrote:I've acquired a Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer box and can't seem to decide between which Raider.

Which Raider would be better for an all around list?

Depends on your list and what you want to carry.

Redeemer is an all out-assault vehicle, is meant to barrel forward 12" and get heavy infantry with a single flamestorm cannon. The flamestorm is extremely potent, I have killed 22 guardsmen in one round of shooting one, and I have been practically tabled when playing marines at 1k against this vehicle. It has a smaller transport capacity.

Crusader is more of a counter-assault vehicle, meant to be a little more reserved by moving 6" and firing everything. It also has a massive capacity, and you can carry some pretty potent death stars in this.

Overall, if you are only using the 12 transport spots, then I would go with the redeemer over the Crusader. If you want a larger capacity (7 terminators and an HQ), then go with the crusader. With 5th ed cover, and the flamestorms ability to instagib MEQ and deny fnp and instakill T3, the flamestorm is a much better choice offensively.

Redeemers are also good to charge into the middle of enemy units, as the PotMS can fire the second Flamestorm at a different target, potentially roasting two Marine squads at once.

Land raiders should only be used for 1 purpose - transporting terminators. The cruaider holds more so it's the better option. reedemer is a beast though - not to take anything away from it. However the only squad you can put in the thing thats worth a damn is 5 terms and vulcan - the only reason this is effective is because vulcan should probably cost at least 350 points - so you get a lot in a small package there.

The Redeemer can still hold 5 Terminators and Vulcan. All Vanilla SM raiders have a minimum capacity of 12.

From a modelling aspect you really don't have to choose. The pin that the flamestorm cannons and hurricane bolters go on are tight enough not to be glued. So all you need to do is slide on which ever weapon you want, and go from there.

I personally like the Crusader. Pop a MM on there, and you can go 6" and fire every weapon. You can target vehicles (MM+Assault Cannon), infantry (Assault Cannon+HurriBolters), hordes (Assault Cannon+HurriBolters), or heavy infantry (everything!). Plus you get more terminators, and everyone loves more terminators (except your opponent).

Gac666 wrote:Even manage to get 4 if you buy the predator upgrade sprue and get yourself some lascannon sponsons. Voila youve got a terminus ready there (just like i do, 4 in 1 LRs ).

The terminus sprue needs a LC Raider to make a terminus - it only has four of the eight lascannons required.

RinesofGlory wrote:Land raiders should only be used for 1 purpose - transporting terminators. The cruaider holds more so it's the better option. reedemer is a beast though - not to take anything away from it. However the only squad you can put in the thing thats worth a damn is 5 terms and vulcan - the only reason this is effective is because vulcan should probably cost at least 350 points - so you get a lot in a small package there.

This. Land Raiders = Terminator Delivery Systems. I never leave home without at least 2 Crusaders.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Gac666 wrote:Even manage to get 4 if you buy the predator upgrade sprue and get yourself some lascannon sponsons. Voila youve got a terminus ready there (just like i do, 4 in 1 LRs ).

The terminus sprue needs a LC Raider to make a terminus - it only has four of the eight lascannons required.

I don't think so.
I never actually converted a LR into a terminus ultra, but the terminus ultra requires 8 lascannons: two singles and three twin-linked. Get a standard LR and you have two of the twin-linked. Get a predator and you get the two single sponsons, plus the twin linked from the turret of the predator. With a bit of conversion, you could stick them onto the heavy bolter turret of the standard LR. And you have your terminus ultra!

You dont even need to convert anything. The turret where the Heavy Bolter sits is the exact same one as on the Razorback. Just slot it on and it should sit rather well.

Why buy a predator to get all the lascannons when you can get this upgrade pack

But back on topic I'd say if theres lots of terrain and expensive troops lying around get the Redeemer if not and theres no cover and hordes lots of them get the Crusader. But that only if you don't want to magnetize it.

They're quite difficult to compare as they have very different roles.

Well the pred is a very versatile tank, if the OP did have one he could easily just take off the lascannons rather than shell out the money for a whole new one.

Magnetize it and have both. Problem solved.

I say magnetize it so you can have both. The magnets are cheap nd fairly straightforward to install.

As for which platform to use, I would say the crusader. It can move and shoot everything while carrying a bigger assault punch. The redeemer has the problem of only shooting the flamestorm, which only one will be in range as you can't point them to cross-over and your usually close to your assault limit when deploying which means the flamestorms will only get the tips in (usually). I actually use the Godhammer pattern. With vulkan and a MM everything on it is TL and it becomes a massive TLOS blockng gunbox that never misses and destroys everything once it unleashes its payload.

The answer is magnets. (how do they work?)

Crap, ninja'd. What kind of army are you running?


fething double post.

warsmith pyrus wrote:Why buy a predator to get all the lascannons when you can get this upgrade pack

But back on topic I'd say if theres lots of terrain and expensive troops lying around get the Redeemer if not and theres no cover and hordes lots of them get the Crusader. But that only if you don't want to magnetize it.

They're quite difficult to compare as they have very different roles.

You can buy the predator box and have a rhino and a terminus pattern LR if you buy the normal LR, or you can buy a Redeemer/crusader and buy the terminus pattern upgrade, im just sayin' what it is, not how to get it. I bought the terminus upgrade though.

To magnetise it you just need to magnetise the doors so you can take them out if needed and you need to make a long rod (made out of sprue for example, but it can be anything) that connects both sponsons from within, like this:


sponson ]* *---------------------* *[ sponson

* - magnets
] - the door socket

Its very easy to do and its not visible from the outside. Even if you open the assault ramp it shouldnt be visible, especially if you model the rod itself nicely.

Laodamia wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

Gac666 wrote:Even manage to get 4 if you buy the predator upgrade sprue and get yourself some lascannon sponsons. Voila youve got a terminus ready there (just like i do, 4 in 1 LRs ).

The terminus sprue needs a LC Raider to make a terminus - it only has four of the eight lascannons required.

I don't think so.
I never actually converted a LR into a terminus ultra, but the terminus ultra requires 8 lascannons: two singles and three twin-linked. Get a standard LR and you have two of the twin-linked. Get a predator and you get the two single sponsons, plus the twin linked from the turret of the predator. With a bit of conversion, you could stick them onto the heavy bolter turret of the standard LR. And you have your terminus ultra!

In the terminus pack you get the two sponsons from the predator and the turret from a razorback which fits into the heavy bolter mount. However, as I said, you must have an LC Raider to base the conversion on (which the OP does not).

But, yes, that is the most versatile option - start with an LC raider, add the redeemer/crusader weapon sprue and the terminus conversion pack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gac666 wrote: or you can buy a Redeemer/crusader and buy the terminus pattern upgrade, im just sayin' what it is, not how to get it.

If you buy a redeemer/crusader and the terminus upgrade you only have four lascannons - not eight.

Ah right, you're absolutely right, I have 2 LRs and got mixed up a little bit .

Magnets are wonderful things, in general. As to the best LR variant, it does depend on the situation. Personally, I'd go with the LRC, for the flexibility. Longer range and bigger transport capacity than the LRR. For every "hah I roasted your entire squad!" moment, there will likely be three where the LRC would have whittled a squad down along the way. No half-decent opponent is going to hand you squads to plunk under a template, so you might as well give yourself a chance to hit them, even on the run.

oadie wrote:Magnets are wonderful things, in general. As to the best LR variant, it does depend on the situation. Personally, I'd go with the LRC, for the flexibility. Longer range and bigger transport capacity than the LRR. For every "hah I roasted your entire squad!" moment, there will likely be three where the LRC would have whittled a squad down along the way. No half-decent opponent is going to hand you squads to plunk under a template, so you might as well give yourself a chance to hit them, even on the run.

Bingo. the crusader is much more versatile. Also like you were saying your opponent will not offer up a squad for torching if he can move it. Soooo....when you pile out for the assault you will most likely be at the far end of assault range. Thi leaves your flamestorms connecting with the tips at best, if you fire them then you might just deny yourslf the charge due to the closest model being removed. Then you have to ask yourself "what good is the flamestorm if the only time its within range I won't fire it?". I know I forgo shooting sometimes to gaurantee that one model stays within assault range.