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How about this:

30 death company with jump packs. All in a very long line 5 power fists. And a Librarian with Jump pack and shield. 1200 points. It does sound rather crazy. It would be ekstreamly hard to kite since the snake would be 60 inches long. And you can multicharge a lott. They have a 3+5++ and a 4+ feel no pain.

Easy to avoid because Rage would just drag your line towards the closest unit, and your opponant (if they had half a brain) would sacrifice one unimportant unit for this task, like a Landspeeder.

The rest of your army would get stomped, and even if you did get a multicharge, you'll probably bite off more than you can chew, especially if a deathstar + other units get the jump on you first.

Hell, in a 1k game this isn't even legal.

It would be funny to try out against some Spehss Mahreen newbies at a GW store though..

Throw in Mephiston and bam. Instant fun for you.

Well they would not be drawn towars the closest unit.

Well they would, but as soon as you have moved as close as you can to him you can fan out in both drirections. How big is the board anyway? This would fill it up.

first turn: kiting slightly dificult, but whole squad starts to move as close as possible to the nearest visible enemy unit. Death company starts to bunch up.

Second turn Kiting made a little easier as the string just got a lot shorter(roughly 40" long now as the outer edges moved as close as possible to the kiting unit, closing them in); unit continues moving as close as possible to the kiting unit, bunching up even more.

3rd turn the line is now a 20" cluster of death company(very likely to be less from Shooting attacks) and at this point gets kited just like any other death-company unit. Also it bunches up even more.

In short this gimmick fails hard.

Edit, due to ninjitsu: You cannot simultaneously "fan out" and move towards the nearest enemy unit.

I -think- you have missunderstood how rage works:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=217017&hl=rage

it is a pretty good discusion of the rule, it is very easy to se witch side has right.

The only problem with the tactic is that if you start taking wounds from shooting you could end up losing coherency.

Although I would use the tactic (and I plan to make use of it once I finish the upcoming tourney and am allowed to play my army as Blood Angels again), I would only use a conga line maneuver for a decisive movement. It leaves the squad too vulnerable otherwise. Additionally, saving it for a single, decisive moment will make it that much more surprising, at least the first time around.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Hell, in a 1k game this isn't even legal.

Um... i think all 1200pt lists arnt legal at 1k...

Just going to say, I used the Conga line today, and it worked wonderfully. I managed to wrap the unit around a Landraider to attack the creamy marine filling sitting on the objective on the other side. Lemartes definetly ate his fill because of it.

Gibbsey wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Hell, in a 1k game this isn't even legal.

Um... i think all 1200pt lists arnt legal at 1k...

Would it surprise you to know that I am aware of that fact? Oh, and by the way, you spelled 'I' wrong.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Hell, in a 1k game this isn't even legal.

Um... i think all 1200pt lists arnt legal at 1k...

Would it surprise you to know that I am aware of that fact? Oh, and by the way, you spelled 'I' wrong.

If you're aware of that... why would you even mention it?

Fafnir wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Gibbsey wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Hell, in a 1k game this isn't even legal.

Um... i think all 1200pt lists arnt legal at 1k...

Would it surprise you to know that I am aware of that fact? Oh, and by the way, you spelled 'I' wrong.

If you're aware of that... why would you even mention it?

This sub-discussion is pointless, and the quoting is just going to annoy people, so I suggest we stop it with this post.

I mentioned it because it's true, and I tend to write what comes into my head as if I were actually speaking to that person, if with a delay on the response and with much more grammatical accuracy.


Continue on with the original discussion now.

Darkvoidof40k get with the program, read your Mc Luhen and stop dicking around. This minor beckering just makes you loot odd.

Fafnir it worked?! I would just imadgine that it would get shot up a lott and it would be hard to control.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:Continue on with the original discussion now.

SIR YESSIR!!!


Ninja'd... Dude.

To sum it all up:

Constantly staying in a conga line makes you too vulnerable to losing coherency. However, using conga line maneuvers to grapevine to nearby targets is a great tactic that can be very surprising when used conservatively and incredibly useful for important assaults.

Essentially, I had a 4 man unit of Death Company with Lemartes (5 men total) deep strike in. I lost one marine to shooting and Lemartes took a wound from an assault cannon, and then ate a squad of Dark Angels all on his own. I then had them consolidate to a landraider. They withstood a turn of shooting, conga lined towards a unit of Grey Hunters (it was a team game) with a rune priest. 2 turns later, the rune priest and his cronies went down. I then consolidated back towards the land raider (it was sitting on an objective, and the opponent's dark angels were trying to get to it to enter it) (I lost another two death company in here, but they were the ones closest to the land raider, so it didn't matter), and grape vined around to assault the squad that was going to enter the land raider on the next turn.

Basically, I was slingshotting Lemartes around a quarter of the table for an entire game. Good fun. He (and the rest of his unit, although Lemartes did most of the killing--most of the time there wasn't anything left for his unit to attack when he was done) ate a Rune Priest, 16 Dark Angels, 10 Grey Hunters, and a Rune Priest.

It should be noted that, because all of my marines were truescale and on large bases, they could be placed further apart to take further advantage of this tactic, but I never kept them at max coherency range, as that would constitute modelling for an advantage (rather than being 2" apart, they were closer to 1" apart), so the results should be fairly reliable.

I find it interesting that there is no FAQ (that I can find) to clear this up.

The closest thing I can find is 'Holy Rage' and the FAQ for that states "models" must move, not just the unit.

Also, looking at something similar like embark/disembark states that all models of a unti must blah, blah, blah. Rage in the BRB has no "all models" statement.

For me it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think of conga lining a unit with Rage like this. Yes, you may be technically right by the non-FAQed rules, but you are also TFG in my book if you do this.

This is a rather fun gimmick, Is this the space marine form of the Karchev whip?

So instead of all of the models moving straight to the closest unit the unit moves which allows you to move the unit closer but keep your guys spread out? Im still not too sure on this sling shot thing with the LR...

I find it interesting that there is no FAQ (that I can find) to clear this up.

The closest thing I can find is 'Holy Rage' and the FAQ for that states "models" must move, not just the unit.

Also, looking at something similar like embark/disembark states that all models of a unti must blah, blah, blah. Rage in the BRB has no "all models" statement.

For me it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think of conga lining a unit with Rage like this. Yes, you may be technically right by the non-FAQed rules, but you are also TFG in my book if you do this.

I'd agree with this. The Rage USR states that "UNITS MUST move as FAST AS POSSIBLE toward the nearest viable enemy". If the nearest visible enemy is the Dreadnaught, then the Raging unit must move the full distance toward the Dred. I understand the rule is poorly worded, but I'd have some serious thoughts about playing with someone who is gonna somehow claim they can do what the diagram states. Fast as possible = all out. Unit = all the guys. I don't see how the arguement holds water.

JGrand wrote:

I find it interesting that there is no FAQ (that I can find) to clear this up.

The closest thing I can find is 'Holy Rage' and the FAQ for that states "models" must move, not just the unit.

Also, looking at something similar like embark/disembark states that all models of a unti must blah, blah, blah. Rage in the BRB has no "all models" statement.

For me it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to think of conga lining a unit with Rage like this. Yes, you may be technically right by the non-FAQed rules, but you are also TFG in my book if you do this.

I'd agree with this. The Rage USR states that "UNITS MUST move as FAST AS POSSIBLE toward the nearest viable enemy". If the nearest visible enemy is the Dreadnaught, then the Raging unit must move the full distance toward the Dred. I understand the rule is poorly worded, but I'd have some serious thoughts about playing with someone who is gonna somehow claim they can do what the diagram states. Fast as possible = all out. Unit = all the guys. I don't see how the arguement holds water.

I think what is being said is that the 'unit' has to move not the 'model' so with a line if you can move 12" you move the unit 12" closer than it was (as in the closest model) and the rest of the models move to keep up but can spread out potentially allowing you to be closer to another unit when you end your movement

I think what is being said is that the 'unit' has to move not the 'model' so with a line if you can move 12" you move the unit 12" closer than it was (as in the closest model) and the rest of the models move to keep up but can spread out potentially allowing you to be closer to another unit when you end your movement

And I disagree with the assumption that by moving one model and keeping coherency, a raging unit can do what ever else it likes. The unit consists of all of the models. The unit (not just one model) must move as fast as possible toward the nearest viable enemy. Now, I'd agree that this rule needs more specificity, however I do think that the unit (all the models) have to move all out toward the enemy. On page 3 of the BRB it states that a Unit is a group of models that act together. No where does this allow for one guy to count as the unit moving as fast as possible while the rest attempt to act normally.

Playing it a different way is just playing for a loophole. The problem is that the loophole isn't there. Unit is exactly what you think it is. Moving as fast as possible implies no holding back except with constraints of impassible terrain ect. Case closed this tactic is not legal.

JGrand wrote:

I think what is being said is that the 'unit' has to move not the 'model' so with a line if you can move 12" you move the unit 12" closer than it was (as in the closest model) and the rest of the models move to keep up but can spread out potentially allowing you to be closer to another unit when you end your movement

And I disagree with the assumption that by moving one model and keeping coherency, a raging unit can do what ever else it likes. The unit consists of all of the models. The unit (not just one model) must move as fast as possible toward the nearest viable enemy. Now, I'd agree that this rule needs more specificity, however I do think that the unit (all the models) have to move all out toward the enemy. On page 3 of the BRB it states that a Unit is a group of models that act together. No where does this allow for one guy to count as the unit moving as fast as possible while the rest attempt to act normally.

Playing it a different way is just playing for a loophole. The problem is that the loophole isn't there. Unit is exactly what you think it is. Moving as fast as possible implies no holding back except with constraints of impassible terrain ect. Case closed this tactic is not legal.

Um you say its unclear then that its not legal? The point is that one crowd thinks it is another doesent because the rules are unclear, technically the unit did move as far as it could towards the enemy. Man where's Gwar when you need him... (at least until the FAQ comes out then.... well you know the rest)

I haven't seen Gwar! on here for ages.. wonder what's happened to him.

By the way, just thought I'd point it out, Rage does not force you to charge anything, just to move towards it.

Let us not start discusing the rules in this thread please. If you think you need to lock it up the rage rules are quite clear, what it comes down to is what the rule refers to when it says "unit" so it is the unit that needs to be discussed. But, make another thread please.

Anyway, the konga line would not bee all that good because of how charge moves work. You start by moving the first model, right? and every model you move after that has to have unit coherency? That means that the konga line sort of pulls towards each unit making it harder (but posible) to multi charge units. Or is this me being bad?

Um you say its unclear then that its not legal? The point is that one crowd thinks it is another doesent because the rules are unclear, technically the unit did move as far as it could towards the enemy. Man where's Gwar when you need him... (at least until the FAQ comes out then.... well you know the rest)

I'm saying that it's unclear how to move your guys closer (ex do you have to bunch up?) but it should be very clear that more than one member of the unit has to move toward the enemy. The OP and the link were trying to claim that when one member of a unit moved as close as possible to the nearest visible enemy, the rest could do whatever they wanted. This is clearly not true and no amount of "what is the definition of the word unit?" nonsense can make it otherwise. The rule clearly has the intent of the making a bloodthirsty, uncontrollable unit move toward the nearest enemy with no regard to strategy. The rule states that the unit (not one member but all members as that constitutes what a unit is) must move toward the nearest enemy as fast as possible.

What is unclear about the fact that you cannot chose to act as you please? This tactic is illegal.

Anyone who wishes to argue about the legality of the maneuver needs to take the rules discussion to You Make Da Call if you wish to have it. Any further posts on that subject will be deleted as Off Topic.

(For the record, I believe you're incorrect, and that the suggested tactic is technically legal per page 3 and page 76 of the rulebook.)

page 3 of the rulebook wrote:
When measuring distances between two units, use the closest models as your reference points ... So, for example, if any model in a unit is within 2" of an enemy unit/model, the unit is said to be within 2" of that enemy unit/model.

That's about as clear as it gets, really.

And if you're going to call me TFG and not play against me because I use such a tactic (and with Lemartes around, it's always to great effect!), then good, I don't want to play you. It's called RaW and it's called tactics. I'm not going to arbitrarily restrict my use of tactics just because it makes you feel better. It's the same idea as calling me TFG because I decided to fire in the shooting phase.

I would like to see how this would work in a game with 30 DC dudes deployed across your front line in a pitched battle match. Keeping everything in coherency, you could spread out across the entire deployment zone and probably have cover from anything that shot at you.
I know if someone set that up across from me, I would be intimidated.

Thing is, all it would take was some good massed firepower to make the unit lose coherency and make the entire plan go to crap. Not to mention that you're paing at minimum 20 points per model for that wall. If you're lining them up like that, you're exposing the death company to the heavy weaponry of the entire enemy army--heavy weaponry they were never meant to take to the face.

You're better off just deploying normally and waiting to slingshot the unit in a moment that really matters. No more worries about coherency, and it's easier to block line of sight if you absolutely have to.

Well, how many of those 30 units do have upgrades?

If the 10 on each end are the same (bolt pistol and CC) then they have to kill 20 units before you lose unit coherency.

HOWEVER: Each time you charge say a rhino, the closest unit would move 2" and then after that you move the rest towards the tank meaning the "konga line" moves 6 towards the rhino. It would mean that you can easaly multi charge the first or second turn but after thay they will start to bulge up. The correct moved against this some 1300 point unit would be to feed it one or two smaler units. Charging it and the draw them towards there.

That's why I like keeping my units small. The massed conga line isn't as effective, but the slingshot works better since you're given a much better degree of control during decisive moments (ie, Lemartes won't be on the other side of the table when you need him to kill something).