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Made in us
Powerful Chaos Warrior





Portland, OR

This is a noob question. I'm building my first army (SM, natch), and almost all of them are plastic. I got some superglue today for my 2 metal models, and it worked great gluing my librarian's hand/force weapon to his arm.

However, about an hour ago I glued Sgt. Telion's head to his body (I definitely used enough glue; this was the second try), and an hour later the head came right off, with the glue still liquid and tacky.

Am I doing something wrong here?
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

If the glue was still liquid an hour later, you used too much.

Try scraping off the residue of previous glue attempts (superglue doesn't stick to itself well at all).

Use a small ball of greenstuff (MIXED green+blue - there have been threads where people did not understand the need to mix it together) to seat it and add superglue then.

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... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Walla Walla, WA

I run into this problem every now and then. If it fails wait tell the glue dries and scrape it off to try again. If all else fails you can use a hotglue gun. Just requires a bigger clean up.
   
Made in us
Powerful Chaos Warrior





Portland, OR

Thanks chromedog. I'll let this attempt sit overnight, and if it still doesn't work I'll make sure to scrape everything off and try again. The first time, I used just a dab of superglue, and it didn't work. I scraped it off the bottom of the head, though perhaps not well in the bowl where the head fits. This last (3rd) try, I wiped off the glue as best I could, but again, not so much in the bowl.

I also didn't wash the model beforehand; could this have an effect?
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

It can.
They often have an oily residue (and your own hands will deposit their own oils) and there will also be a surface coating of oxides (which might also be patchy).
I give them a wash first (soapy water), then I assemble after I've dry fit to check for gaps.

You might have better luck with a gel-type superglue or a 'gap-filling' one.
I use a medium thickness one myself (Zap green) and it works fine. Chronus was assembled with it (got it as a prize in a comp - I use him as a techmarine thunderfire cannon gunner. He has a servo arm.).

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Chaos Warrior





Portland, OR

Cool. My superglue is a gel. Ehh, I'll see what it's like in the morning.
   
Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Falkirk, Scotland

Lol yeah had the exact same problem when I was first using superglue... >.< I managed to spend 2 hours holding a part together on a commissar, and I glued my finger to his arm... not fun! Point is, use less glue

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Made in gb
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Somewhere in the dark...

I always scratch a crosshatch pattern onto the two surfaces to be glued, the idea being that it creats more surfaces for the glue to stick to. whether or not it actually does anything, ive never had a problem with anything falling off.

Not tried this on plastic to metal, just metal to metal



 
   
Made in us
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator






ColdSadHungry wrote:I always scratch a crosshatch pattern onto the two surfaces to be glued, the idea being that it creats more surfaces for the glue to stick to. whether or not it actually does anything, ive never had a problem with anything falling off.

Not tried this on plastic to metal, just metal to metal


I actually did things like that with a bunch of my old metal models. When I first bought my ghazkhul(about 10 years back) I scored the sides and glued him together. Last week I removed the paint and spent an hour trying to get the parts to seperate it had such a strong bond.
   
Made in us
[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka






Chicago

Superglue is never enough to connect two parts.

Don't people take shop classes anymore? Glue is there to aid and preserve joins, not to form bonds. You have to start with a solid mechanical join first, and the glue holds it in place.

If you cannot push the pieces together and have them stay there, that's not a solid mechanical join. You need to create one. And you do that by pinning.

Any join that you're going to use super-glue on (plastic-to-metal, metal-to-metal, resin-to-metal, plastic-to-resin, or resin-to-resin) should be started with a pin.

The only place you don't need to use pins is on plastic-to-plastic joins using plastic cement because this actually creates a solid bond by melting and fusing the plastics.

   
Made in us
Powerful Chaos Warrior





Portland, OR

aaaand...it's still not dry, the morning after. Redbeard, I thought about pinning, but was hoping to have to avoid it, because I'm not sure I'll be able to pose the head the way I want to with pinning It's much easier to put some glue on and position the head before it dries.

In this case, though, obviously that's not going to work.

(also: my high school didn't even offer shop class)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/24 16:16:02


 
   
Made in us
Impassive Inquisitorial Interrogator






Ft Leonard Wood Mo

All the advice above + get some CA accelerator (usually like 5 bucks for spray bottle you won't run out of for a long time). It makes the bond a little weaker, but can be a huge help, as it cures CA/Superglue instantly.

 
   
Made in ca
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





CFB Trenton

chromedog wrote:If the glue was still liquid an hour later, you used too much.

Try scraping off the residue of previous glue attempts (superglue doesn't stick to itself well at all).

Use a small ball of greenstuff (MIXED green+blue - there have been threads where people did not understand the need to mix it together) to seat it and add superglue then.


Exactly what I started to do, freakin awesomeness incarnate.

 
   
Made in gb
Monstrous Master Moulder





Essex,, England

I woul strongly recomend gel glue. Doesn't dry quite as fast and a bit more expensive, but it is well worth. The bond is stronger, you are in much less danger of supergluing yourself, nozzle doesnt get blocked. Have you ever tried pinning? Nearly all metal models could do with some pinning in assembly


 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser






Super glue sucks I should know, I use for literally everything. I glued some plastic arms onto my archon, and it falls apart whenever possible. But I've glued metal arms to him without any sort of difficulty.... Super glue is a bit random :3

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/24 16:48:13



If only ZUN!bar were here... 
   
Made in us
Violent Space Marine Dedicated to Khorne





Make a right past the Eye of Teror...no a left...wait a right!

I use "Tester's" model plastic glue, which works fine on plastic models. I use any store brand superglue (licquid) for metal models.
If the metal model has some weight or large size, I use a pin with superglue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/24 16:59:56


 
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





Binghamton, NY

What pose are you attempting with his head that you can't pin? Unless it's floating completely free of his body, there should be enough area to slip in a small pin, which is all that should be necessary. Glue won't dry any faster because of a pin, so if you can tweak the pose now, you can tweak it then, too. Washing the parts after removing the hardened glue residue should help, as well.

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Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Sunderland, UK

hehehe similar to sevenups, i recently fell asleep with a chaplain in my hand waiting for superglue to bond, a friend advised me that this stuff works really well for metals

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Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Dayton OH

The epoxy is good for joints with pins and stuff, but it just dries into a sheet of rubbery material that can flake off from smooth metal.
Zap A Gap is the best super glue I've found. It's made for modelling, and not household repair.
The cost isn't terrible and you can get it in large bottles that sometimes last me years.

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Made in us
Auspicious Skink Shaman





Greer, SC

The best glue that i have found for metal models is called Amazing Goop. It takes a good bit longerr todry than superglue, but seems to work better for metals

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Made in us
Nasty Nob




Cary, NC

Skip the expensive accelerator.

Dust one surface with a little baking soda (very little). Works like an accelerant, and a gap filler.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/10/stuff_eng_tech_ca_glue.htm

The above link also explains why too much glue is bad. The stuff polymerizes from the surface inward, so too much means that the center never hardens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/25 04:05:04


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

My advice:

DON'T use accellerators, baking soda or Green Stuff on joints with superglue. All you are doing is weakening the join.

Pin...your...models. It's that simple. If your superglue isn't drying, you have one of two problems.
1. The superglue is old and should be replaced.
2. You are using too much superglue.

#2 is the most likely culprit, I have seen it a thousand times.

For a simple head positioning, superglue should be fine and with a joint that light you can probably get away with Zip Kicker to set it instantly. If you drop the model, the head will likely fall off, but if that happens you have other problems anyway.

For really heavy joints, I use a pin and JB Kwik. It's a two part metal epoxy that sets in 5 minutes. A joint set with JB Kwik is NEVER coming apart.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Cary, NC

Yeah, I should have made it clear that IF you are going to use an accelerator, just use baking soda. I'm not recommending using an accelerator, but save the money.

Also, while baking soda does weaken a join, you can also get a weak join when two pieces don't match up perfectly. In that case, the baking soda/superglue can act as a gap filler. Even though an accelerated join will be weaker than one without accelerant, the benefits of eliminating a gap might outweigh that disadvantage.

Basically, is the join going to get any torque? If so, you should probably pin it. If you are attaching something light and small, the superglue will hold. If you are attaching something that nestles snugly, and doesn't support any weight, superglue should be fine. If the piece is heavy, long, or has a small point of attachment, you might as well pin it. It's probably going to break off otherwise. It's time consuming, and fiddly, but it's probably the right thing to do. However, like making two trips instead of carrying everything in one massive load, most people still won't do it.

 
   
Made in id
Widowmaker



Perth, WA, australia

My glue seem to work just fine,sem to be the gel variety too

So far
500 point of
750 point of
500 point


 
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker





The only thing I would add to this is that I find GW superglue to be much better for GW models. I don't know why this is, though it is the thinnest glue I use, and I only use tiny amounts. Other superglues glue other things, but GW models fall apart.

I'd second the comments about pinning for a secure join, and definitely for complex models. Karl Franz's griffin and the Anvil of Doom need a lot of pins to stay together.
   
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Powerful Chaos Warrior





Portland, OR

I just pinned the head, with a dab of superglue on either end of the pin. It's fine now, nice and snug.

I probably just should've tried a dab of glue again, after scraping and washing, but I didn't want to have to do it a fourth time. Thanks for the info!
   
 
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