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Here's two scenarios that came up the other day that me and my regular opponent thought were odd. We're both fair minded and came up with solutions that we thought were fair, but we didn't really know what the "official" answer was.

Issue 1

When deploying for Dawn of War, you can deploy up to 1 HQ and 2 Troops. I deploy my Firewarriors in their Devilfish as one of my Troop choices.

Here's the question:

1. Does that count as the 2 Troop choices, or does the Firewarriors with their Transport count as a single troop choice?

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Issue 2

1. Do to some poor deep strike scatter with a pair of Crisis Teams, both of them were close together
2. My friend playing Chaos Daemons, multi-assaulted both Crisis Teams with his Daemon Prince
3. The Daemon Prince ended up killing a Crisis Suit in one team
4. I didn't put any wounds on his Daemon Prince, so I lost combat by 2

Now, here's the questions:

1. Do both units end up taking a leadership check for having lost combat, or does one unit tie and the other unit lose combat?
2. If both units do "lose" combat, do they both take their leadership checks at -2?
3. So ultimately, if one unit suffers casualties in a multi-assault, both units can end up being swept by a single enemy unit, even though one of them didn't even take any casualties?

Appreciate any and all answers. Would appreciate it if you can source your answer in the BRB.

Radical wrote:1. Does that count as the 2 Troop choices, or does the Firewarriors with their Transport count as a single troop choice?

They're two separate units. This is explained in the example provided with the Dawn Of War rules in the rulebook.

My friend playing Chaos Daemons, multi-assaulted both Crisis Teams with his Daemon Prince

This was illegal. A single model can not charge multiple units, as you only declare a charge against a single unit. It's only if you have more than one model in the charging unit that you can perform a multi-assault, and it's only the 2nd and subsequent models that can move into contact with other units than the one originaly declared as the target.


However, if we assume that the combat was legal (the suits had charged the Prince, rather than the other way around, for example):

1. Do both units end up taking a leadership check for having lost combat, or does one unit tie and the other unit lose combat?

The winner/loser of a combat is determined by sides, not by individual units. So yes, both units would have to take the morale test.

This is covered in the 'Multiple Combats' section of the Assault rules.

2. If both units do "lose" combat, do they both take their leadership checks at -2?

Yes, for the same reason.

3. So ultimately, if one unit suffers casualties in a multi-assault, both units can end up being swept by a single enemy unit, even though one of them didn't even take any casualties?

That's correct. If they were involved in the combat, they suffer the results just like every other involved unit.

To clarify, the reason he was able to multi-assault was do to the fact my crisis teams were both very close to each other. So when he assaulted, he was close enough so that he could touch models in both teams with his base.

What is the difference between multi-assaulting with a unit that has more than one model versus multi-assaulting with a unit that has just one model?

Radical wrote:To clarify, the reason he was able to multi-assault was do to the fact my crisis teams were both very close to each other. So when he assaulted, he was close enough so that he could touch models in both teams with his base.

Yup, figured that was what you meant. You still can't do it.

Darkfalz wrote:What is the difference between multi-assaulting with a unit that has more than one model versus multi-assaulting with a unit that has just one model?

The difference comes from the way the multi-assault rules work.

You declare a charge against a single enemy unit.
You then mve the first model into contact with one model from that unit. You are not allowed at this point to move that model into contact with a model from a unit that is not being assaulted.
You then move the rest of the models in your assaulting unit. These models are allowed to move into contact with models from either the unit against which the charge was declared, or other units in range if they can do so while still following the rules for moving assaulting models.

So, you can only charge multiple enemy units if you have more than one model in your unit. Single-model units can never charge multiple enemy units.

As above.

It is illegal to multicharge when you are only a single model, as the first model to move must ALWAYS charge the unit you declared the charge against.

If both units are close enough so that a single model can assault one unit while also touching the second unit, how is that illegal?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure it out. It doesn't seem to violate any rules that I see in the BRB. It is a very rare scenario of course, so maybe the rules doesn't really clarify either for or against.

Because the only permission you have to assault a second unit other than your initial target is with the second model in a unit. A unit of one model never has a second model to use and therefore cannot multiple assault.

Radical wrote:If both units are close enough so that a single model can assault one unit while also touching the second unit, how is that illegal?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to figure it out. It doesn't seem to violate any rules that I see in the BRB. It is a very rare scenario of course, so maybe the rules doesn't really clarify either for or against.

1) they will never be close enough to assault at the same time, as you must go by the shortest path. Utter improbability that both will be exactly the same distance away
2) Because the rules for assaulting state, very clearly, that the FIRST model MUST assault the unit you declared the assault against; it may not assault any other unit

So if you try to move your first model into contact with another unit, you have broken a rule. You CAN, unlike 4th ed, move within 1" of another enemy unit in order to assault, however the first model is NOT allowed to assault a different unit than the one you declared against.

I follow. I went back and read the moving assaulting models entry and saw the following, "This means that assaulting models may... not move into base contact with enemy models from a unit they are not assaulting."

Thank you for the clarification.