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This slightly mad problem came to me while reading up on the Cover saves rule for the KF + Squadron debate.

You have a 10 man unit between a hedge(5+) and a fortification (3+). From the fire view point all the models can be seen but 4 are behind the wall, 4 are behind the fortification and two in the middle are completely in the open.

In this case 80% of the unit is in cover but importantly only 40% behind ether object

Options
1) The unit is in cover and gets the best save (3+)
2) The unit is in cover and gets the average save (4+)
3) The unit is in cover and gets the lowest save (5+)
4) The unit isn't in cover

i Would say option 1 as you allocate the wounds and as every model is in view you chose the models in the fortification to take the saves.

You take the best save; the unit has both a 3+ cover save AND a 5+ cover save

Steu wrote:i Would say option 1 as you allocate the wounds and as every model is in view you chose the models in the fortification to take the saves.

Which models you allocate to has no bearing on this - a unit has a cover save, not a model.

There's nothing in the rulebook to cover this. They are definitely in cover but there's no mention of units in mixed cover and how to decide what cover save they get.
I'd say you've been doing it right with the compromise value.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You take the best save; the unit has both a 3+ cover save AND a 5+ cover save

Does the unit have a 3+ when only 40% of them are behind 3+ cover?

They have a cover save - a given

40% have a 3+
40% havea 5+

You use the best save, as cover saves are defined per unit

Nos is right on this one. The unit is 80% in cover, so this qualifies it for a cover save regardless of other factors.

There is no way of taking the "average" cover save, as there are no rules to define this.

Now to determine the cover save, we have to examine the specific type of cover the unit is in. If its 40% and 40%, then both apply, and you take the best save.

Actually this argument is now pointless - check Page 24 or the BRB, just above the Maximum Save Paragraph.

"If the unit can benefit from different types of cover, for example being behind a hedge(5+), and a low wall (4+), then the unit use the best cover save available (in this case the 4+).

Sorted!

BRB FAQ

Q: If a unit is in multiple different types of cover, which
cover save is used? (p22)
A: Whichever has the highest number of models in, or the
best in a tie (as long as over half the unit is in some kind
of cover).

liam0404 wrote:"If the unit can benefit from different types of cover, for example being behind a hedge(5+), and a low wall (4+), then the unit use the best cover save available (in this case the 4+).

That's about a unit that is behind a hedge and a wall - not a unit where some are behind a wall and some are behind a hedge.

somerandomdude wrote:BRB FAQ
Q: If a unit is in multiple different types of cover, which
cover save is used? (p22)
A: Whichever has the highest number of models in, or the
best in a tie (as long as over half the unit is in some kind
of cover).

Good find

yep good spot but does cause other problems ...

Tri wrote:yep good spot but does cause other problems ...

Yes, it does.

For those of you wondering:

Assume you have a squad of 10 Orks with a KFF on them. 9 of those Orks are behind a 3+ cover save wall. You have to take the 4+ cover save from the KFF, since 10 models get that cover as opposed to the 3+ cover save from the wall.

You'd actually be better off if they weren't under a KFF!

Grakmar wrote:

Tri wrote:yep good spot but does cause other problems ...

Yes, it does.

For those of you wondering:

Assume you have a squad of 10 Orks with a KFF on them. 9 of those Orks are behind a 3+ cover save wall. You have to take the 4+ cover save from the KFF, since 10 models get that cover as opposed to the 3+ cover save from the wall.

You'd actually be better off if they weren't under a KFF!

its only a 5+ .... even worse where i play we have loads of razor wire 6+ for all (i can see that being lost)

Wrong, because of what liam said (which was irrelevant for the original question but matters in the KFF/Razorwire situations you mention):

Pg 24 of the rulebook:

"If a unit can benefit from different types of cover... the unit uses the best cover save available."

In order to "benefit from... cover" you have to have a majority of your unit in/behind the cover. If a majority of the unit is in 4+, the entire unit gets 4+.

The FAQ I quoted has to do with the majority being in some sort of cover, but having pluralities determine cover because no single cover save is being provided to a majority of the unit, which was the situation originally presented.

tri is correct; on both accounts.
KFF is a 5+ cover save.

KFF puts the entire unit in Cover(100% of the unit is in a 5+ cover save providing effect), If 90% of the unit is also inside of a 3+ cover providing effect or terrain the majority of the unit(again 100%) is still in a different valued save and as such that is the save that they get(the 5+).

Majority means exactly what it says: more of the unit than the alternative.

Also your rules quote is incorrect(or rather invalidated by the FAQ); This was a deliberate rules change in the FAQ, and a Completely unnecessary one IMHO. it could be that the answer to the unnecessary question was erroneous, but it is something we must now live with.

To be frank what it should say is ...

When a unit is cover which has not been created by a single source, they may still take whichever save has the highest number of models in, or the best in a tie (as long as over half the unit is in some kind
of cover).

... but some one messed up the first line. As it stands it's a complete rethink to wargear/rule/power cover saves. I mean conceals never been great 15pts for a 5+ coversave, which now negates any better cover saves unless you mange to get 100% into them

They should never have put that question into the FAQ at all; Page 24 is very clear in the wording; if a unit gets cover saves from multiple sources, the best is taken.

Now I really cannot accurately describe how one would rule a situation of Razorwire connecting to a fortification, and say 90% of the squad is behind the razorwire with only the 1 remaining model(or 10% or less of the squad, for units over 10 models) being behind the fortification; that doesn't gum up that rule while keeping the "spirit" of the multiple cover saves rule in tact.

This, I think, is why the FAQ question exists, and was answered to the best ability of the author. It would be nice if non-terrain sources did not count for these situations.