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Just a quick question regarding defensive weapons on tanks, If I have an ork BW with a kannon that is able to fire 1 st 8 shot or a template str 4 shot am I able to fire the kannon as a defensive weapons if I use the str 4 template?

I'd have to say probably not, but this is definatly one for the GW FAQ...

Nice point.

I've never seen why not.

I see no reason at all why you could not do so.

Defensive weapons count as str4 and lower.

The shot being fired would be str4 making it a defensive weapon.

^What he said.

Fire the lower S shot and it is a defensive weapon.

Similar issue with DE disintegrators in the previous version.
Missile launchers on vehicles (LS Typhoon for SM).

I think the ZZapp gun was ruled against as a DF wep, but that could be because of it's random strength (even if it rolls 4 or below).

The Kannon meets the S4 criteria, and as far as i can tell that's the only one needed

As long as the mode you're firing is S4 or lower, you should be good. Eldar players do this with their MLs pretty frequently.

Yup, it is a defensive weapon. Just look at the Achilles, it can fire its thunderfire at strength 4 as a defensive weapon.

Still....seems like it'd be taking advantage of the wording.

not at all.

lower Str weapons tend to be weapons that are more indescriminate. Frag blasts, Bolter weapons...

you need take time to aim an AP missile, but a missile that explodes doesn't need to be as precise.



the Zapp gun is tricky though.


i would fire the Zapp gun, determine it's Str, and then see if it could be fired.

if the Zapp gun rolls too high for the speed the Wagon ran then it doesn't fire.

Or you could go by the FAQ:

Q. If a Zzap Gun is mounted on a vehicle, is it a
normal or defensive weapon, and what happens
if more than ‘10’ is rolled for Strength?
A. Zzap Guns are never counted as defensive
weapons, regardless of the Strength they are
actually fired at that turn. If the Strength roll is
more than ‘10’ there are no negative effects.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Or you could go by the FAQ:

Q. If a Zzap Gun is mounted on a vehicle, is it a
normal or defensive weapon, and what happens
if more than ‘10’ is rolled for Strength?
A. Zzap Guns are never counted as defensive
weapons, regardless of the Strength they are
actually fired at that turn. If the Strength roll is
more than ‘10’ there are no negative effects.

Then by what this says, I'd say the same thing applys to the kannon.

Not at all.

Defensive and Main weapons are determined by the S of the Weapon; A Zzap gun has a Variable S. The FAq indicates that the Zzap gun is always a main Weapon regardless of what S is rolled for as that is the nature of the weapon(it also limits inconsistancies of Firing a Main weapon and then Firing the Zzap gun but rolling a high enough S that iit is not a defensive weapon and then cannot fire as you cannot determine the S of the Zzap gun until you fire the gun but if the S is too high you cannot fire the gun at all to begin with)

If anything this FAQ re-enforces that weapons fired in different modes with S values that vary between Defensive and main weapons can be fired as defensive weapons so long a the s value of that mode falls within the Defensive limits.

Kommissar Kel wrote:Not at all.

Defensive and Main weapons are determined by the S of the Weapon; A Zzap gun has a Variable S. The FAq indicates that the Zzap gun is always a main Weapon regardless of what S is rolled for as that is the nature of the weapon(it also limits inconsistancies of Firing a Main weapon and then Firing the Zzap gun but rolling a high enough S that iit is not a defensive weapon and then cannot fire as you cannot determine the S of the Zzap gun until you fire the gun but if the S is too high you cannot fire the gun at all to begin with)

If anything this FAQ re-enforces that weapons fired in different modes with S values that vary between Defensive and main weapons can be fired as defensive weapons so long a the s value of that mode falls within the Defensive limits.

I guess you see an apple, while I see an orange. Difference of interpretation.

I can see why you'd be hasty to agree with us cortez, but the rules state that a defensive weapon is one with S4 or lower, the kannon can be fired at S4 and therefore as a defensive weapon.

Always amuses me how people on forums always have to be right. But yeah, I concede the point, a kannon could fire its S4 attack as defensive.

Happy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
:-) :-) :-). That could have sounded a little snippy; I apoligize in advance.

No offence taken, and us dakkaites are always right

The Zzap gun is a special case because you do not know what strength it is until after it's fired. All the other weapons, however, chooses a profile before firing. This is probably why it's singled out in the FAQ, but not the Kannon. Problem arises because, without that ruling, you have no idea if the Kannon is a Defensive or Offensive weapon until it actually fires, whereas the Kannon does know what profile it's using. Personally the weapon is made to be versatile and seems intentional on the design.

Sweet time to show this to my regular gaming buddy =) And huzzah I well actaully get to use the turrets for my BWs for once

I have a different question related to defensive weapons, but it fits the thread nicely.

If I get a weapon destroyed result, and all I have is a defensive weapon, do I loose the weapon or get immobilized?

Cortez667 wrote:Always amuses me how people on forums always have to be right. But yeah, I concede the point, a kannon could fire its S4 attack as defensive.

Happy?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
:-) :-) :-). That could have sounded a little snippy; I apoligize in advance.

I bid you welcome to the internet, good sir.

If it's S4 or less, it's a defensive weapon. Unless it's a Zzap Gun.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:I have a different question related to defensive weapons, but it fits the thread nicely.

If I get a weapon destroyed result, and all I have is a defensive weapon, do I loose the weapon or get immobilized?

Weapon destroyed currently applies to any weapon. You're probably remembering the 4th edition rule which applied it only to weapons S4 and up (I think that's everything other than the old Chimera lasguns). Main or defensive doesn't matter for this purpose. The description in the rulebook of the weapon destroyed result even provides pintle stormbolters as an example of a weapon that can be destroyed.

Thanks for that. Your right, it was 4th ed rules.