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After having decided to start playing fantasy as well I figured the new O&G would be an ideal choice. Its a lot more random than running optimized 40k lists which will be a nice change. After some tweaking I have come up with this 2250 list. However since I just got started I figured it be a nice idea to ask some more experienced fantasy players what they think about this list before I go and by everything
Without further ado:

Lord: 468
Savage Orc WarBoss (Glittering Scales,Potion of Speed, Additional Choppa)

Savage Orc Great Shaman (Lvl 4, Shrunken Head(+1 War Paint Save for unit), Fencers Blades)

Hero: 270
Savage Orc Big Boss (BSB, Razor Standard)

NG Shaman (Dispel Scroll)

NG Shaman

Core: 1032
39xNG (2xFanatics, S&M, Netters)

39xNG (2xFanatics, S&M, Netters)

5x Spider Riders (Bows)

27xSavage Orc Big Uns (Full Command, Extra Choppa, Big ass Thingy (D3 Impact hits)

20xArrer Boyz (Musican)

Special: 310
Goblin Chariots

Goblin Chariots

6xTrolls

Rare: 165
Doom Diver

Rock Lobba

IMHO, I'd always field regular shield boyz before arrers.

You want to be on the move so the bows will not really shoot anything, and you will appreciate the extra armour and parry save.

If everything I read about the new book is true, I'd go for all-gobbo magic as the orc spells I always wanted to get (bash'em, waagh and fists) have gone. That'll save you points, too but I also like the look of the savage big'uns sitting on a 5+ ward.

Do not listen to jouso. Big Waaagh magic is amazing. Foot and hand of gork can be game winning. The sniper spells put a lot of pressure on the opponent's casters / bsb if they aren't running a ward save. Gobbo magic has uses, but it's better suited on a lvl 2 to throw 1 die and a mushroom to trigger the affinity.

If you aren't set in theme, I'd make one of your orcs a black orc. You are going for a bit of a death star. You don't want 1 failed animosity to ruin your march / restraining of a charge / casting with the lvl 4.

I'd be inclined to say always take 2 doom divers over any alternative, as they are far more accurate and help you deal with annoying skirmisher units and heavy armor.

I'd also very much consider mangla squigs. They are the bane of elite units though you have to be careful against lots of shooting / magic missiles.

Thanks for the replies!
I do like the Big Waagh even if the Lore attribute is abysmal. Im trying to go for a Savage/Forest theme but Im really starting to doubt the whole death star thingy. I have 970pts in just one unit, thats more than 27 trolls...I think I will have to do some rethinking here...
Grimgor+Black Orcs might actually be a cheaper/better unit but Im not really sure how to make the theme work...

As for the Doom Diver vs Lobba, I think that a Lobba should be able to hit quite a few units in a horde so I figured one of each might be better? Maybe go for one Lobba and two divers.

tedurur wrote: Lord: 468
Savage Orc WarBoss (Glittering Scales,Potion of Speed, Additional Choppa)

Potion of Speed isn't really necessary. The Orc shouldn't need to strike first, and there's no real rule "benefits" by giving him I7 one round of combat barring maybe going before a few Dark Elves or non-character Eshin models.

Glittering scales are mixed with me. With his current WS, you're looking at changing most enemy Hero's & troops to hitting on 5's, with most Lords (dedicated toward combat) hitting on 4's. If you intend to use him only for unit hunting, this is good enough (it effectively cuts out 33% of the hits, so is akin to a 5+ ward, which approximates as slightly more effective / points than buying the Talisman of Endurance). However, he's still a nasty bit of bait for someone using Lore of Death or character-sniping abilities (having only a 6+ Ward).

tedurur wrote: Savage Orc Great Shaman (Lvl 4, Shrunken Head(+1 War Paint Save for unit), Fencers Blades)

See no real problems here, but not sure if it's worth the points to upgrade to Level 4. Big Waaagh! has a few actually good spells (Fists + Fencer's Blades, one example, another being 'Ere we Go and Foot / Warpath), but a bunch of them are really only so-so in turn ('Eadbutt only being able to hit Casters, as an example).

tedurur wrote: Hero: 270
Savage Orc Big Boss (BSB, Razor Standard)

I'd put the Razor Standard on the Big 'Un unit, since that means it can't be sniped out until the unit's practically dead (See: 26 Big 'Uns have died). Maybe add some protective items to the BSB, but if going in the Shrunken Head unit it'll be durable enough.

tedurur wrote: NG Shaman (Dispel Scroll)

NG Shaman

These are pretty decent, though I feel you might want to see if you can get some more Arcane items in there (even if just 15pts for a Sceptre of Stability).

tedurur wrote: Core: 1032
39xNG (2xFanatics, S&M, Netters)

39xNG (2xFanatics, S&M, Netters)

Can't complain about anything here - good ol' tarpits.

tedurur wrote: 5x Spider Riders (Bows)

To me, Goblins don't really do the "Fast Cavalry Shoot-Shoot" game. Short Bows just don't add up that well, whether BS3 (normal) or BS4 (That one special Wolf character). Might as well take them here since it's only 5pts, but keep in mind that you'll be lucky to get one or two wounds from the bows in the game.

tedurur wrote: 27xSavage Orc Big Uns (Full Command, Extra Choppa, Big ass Thingy (D3 Impact hits)

20xArrer Boyz (Musican)

Again, can't really complain here.

tedurur wrote: Special: 310
Goblin Chariots

Goblin Chariots

6xTrolls

Decent. I'd normally suggest two more Trolls to make a solid eight (so they have an extra 3-6 regen wounds before losing rank negation, as well as the extra two Vomit's a combat), but points are packed and six Vomits is still enough when used in a combi-flank charge with some brick to the front.

tedurur wrote: Rare: 165
Doom Diver

Rock Lobba

Just keep in mind that these will probably get only 1-3 turns of a "target rich" environment, and you'll be set.

Leenus wrote:Do not listen to jouso. Big Waaagh magic is amazing. Foot and hand of gork can be game winning. The sniper spells put a lot of pressure on the opponent's casters / bsb if they aren't running a ward save. Gobbo magic has uses, but it's better suited on a lvl 2 to throw 1 die and a mushroom to trigger the affinity.

The new book here arrives next week so I'm just bitter that my fav orc spells have gone.

I still need to playtest both lores to see which one works best but based on past experience greenskin magic works best when buffing your own units, and now that both waagh and bash 'em ladz are gone I'm not really sure you can make anything out of the new spells until I can actually read the small print.

In the past, greenskin magic worked best buffing your own units, because many of the spells were buffs.

Now you have 2 great sniper spells with long ranges and high strength and / or multi wounds. You have 1 AMAZING AE damage spell, an awesome movement spell and still can get a RR to hit (though no ASF).

Sure it sucks to lose waaaagh. But it doesn't matter what we lost. It matters what we have. And what we have is a very strong lore.

Thanks for the comments, I have done some tweaking, I have lost a the ld 9 general but with ld 8 with reroll should be ok. Pretty magic heavy and seeing how many players appear to start casting low lvl spells to drain dispel dice first I figured Sivijers Hex Scroll + Tricksters Shard could be a nice combo.
The Trolls and the big spider goes on one flank (trolls screen first turn to give protection vs cannons. Chariots goes on the other flank and the infantry goes in the middle...

Lord: 290
Savage Orc Great Shaman (Lvl 4, Shrunken Head, Fencers Blades) = 290

Hero: 384
Savage Orc Big Boss (BSB, Armour of Silvered Steel, Two handed Weapon) = 149

NG Shaman (Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll, Tricksters Shard) = 135

NG Shaman (Sivijers Hex Scroll) = 100

Core: 711
39xNG (2xFanatics, S&M, Netters) = 232

28xSavage Orc Big Uns (Full Command, Extra Choppa, Big ass Thingy (D3 Impact hits) = 363

20xArrer Boyz (Musican) = 146

Special: 495
2xGoblin Chariots = 100

2xGoblin Chariots = 100

Orc Chariot = 85

6xTrolls = 210

Rare: 370
Archnorok (Spelling?) = 290

Doom Diver = 80

Leenus wrote:In the past, greenskin magic worked best buffing your own units, because many of the spells were buffs.

Now you have 2 great sniper spells with long ranges and high strength and / or multi wounds. You have 1 AMAZING AE damage spell, an awesome movement spell and still can get a RR to hit (though no ASF).

But the point is we need the buffs as our boyz cannot go play with the others on equal terms (low I, low armour).

It takes a major estrategy redesign to make use of the new book (which is not bad in itself, as it will confuse opponents first) but overall orcs have lost strength.

I have done some tweaking (and placed an order on this stuff ) What do you guys think? 3 blocks of infantry instead of two.

Downgraded the SO Great Shaman to lvl 3 to afford it, should I downgrade the lvl2 NG instead? I think that the little waaagh is a better lore (and with better attribute) than the big waaaagh but I can see the appeal of haveing a lvl 4 wizard for dispelling ect but Im not sure its worth it?

Lord: 255
Savage Orc Great Shaman (Shrunken Head, Fencers Blades) = 255

Hero: 439
Savage Orc Big Boss (BSB, Armour of Silvered Steel, Luckstone, Two handed Weapon) = 154

Orc Big Boss (Enchanted Shield, Biting Blade, IronCurse Icon) = 75

NG Shaman (Lvl 2, Dispel Scroll) = 110

NG Shaman (Sivijers Hex Scroll) = 100

Core: 798
39xNG (2xFanatics, S&M, Netters) = 232

28xSavage Orc Big Uns (Full Command, Extra Choppa) = 343

28xBoyz (Shields,S&M) = 216

Special: 395
Boar Chariot = 85

2xGoblin Chariot = 100

6xTrolls = 210

Rare: 370
Archnorok = 290

Doom Diver = 80

I think you'll do fine with that list. I'd definitely keep the lvl 4 and drop a lvl 2 to a lvl 1. It's far more beneficial to roll the extra spell on the big mage and get +1 cast / +1 dispell. You don't want to be dispelling at an effective -1 against everyone when you don't have to.

To juoso, you don't need to fight on "equal" terms with your boys when foot of gork has obliterated the threat or hand of gork has moved you into a favorable position. Again, I'm not arguing that losing waaagh doesn't suck, but the lore is strong in new ways.

Little waagh's attribute is better, but you only need to take lvl 1's or 2's, throw a single die + mushroom at spells and either get a dice advantage (they have to throw 2 dispel at your one) or get a free spell and a 5+ for a dice advantage. The casting values are mostly low enough that you do not need a lvl 4.

If reading the foot of gork spell alone doesn't convince you that big waaagh is better than little waaagh for a lvl 4, I don't know what will. Str 6 / 7 with D3 wounds in a HUGE template that can keep hitting on a 4+ is flat out game winning.

It's a solid list. I think the orc units would be better serviced with extra choppas, though. I've worked the math out time and time again, and shields just seem to be a waste.
Even the gobbos do better with bows or spears, though if you plan on using them as tar pits and only as tar pits, then shields are easier.

Can Savage Orc characters take magic armour?

Are the Fencer's Blades only their for a Fist combo? Just wondering how effective that is, considering the 35pts. But I really have no idea.

As for this old versus new magic discussion, here's what I'll say: the old Waaagh! spell was simply too good in 8th. Games could be won almost exclusively because of that spell.
I think the new lores are fun and competitve, and while we lost our scariest spells, we also lost our crappiest ones. The Curse of the Bad Moon or whatever is absolutely hilarious. And awesome. And the Big Waaagh! affinity is...comically straight-forward.

Tell us how this list works for you!

Leenus wrote:I think you'll do fine with that list. I'd definitely keep the lvl 4 and drop a lvl 2 to a lvl 1. It's far more beneficial to roll the extra spell on the big mage and get +1 cast / +1 dispell. You don't want to be dispelling at an effective -1 against everyone when you don't have to.

My codex is already at the store, and sunday I'm playing HE, so I'll let y'all know how it works.

I'll try the lv4 orc + lv2 gobbo approach (2500 pt) haven't settled on a list, though, and obviously the arachnarok model won't be ready in time.

Warpsolution wrote:It's a solid list. I think the orc units would be better serviced with extra choppas, though. I've worked the math out time and time again, and shields just seem to be a waste.
Even the gobbos do better with bows or spears, though if you plan on using them as tar pits and only as tar pits, then shields are easier.

Can Savage Orc characters take magic armour?

Are the Fencer's Blades only their for a Fist combo? Just wondering how effective that is, considering the 35pts. But I really have no idea.

As for this old versus new magic discussion, here's what I'll say: the old Waaagh! spell was simply too good in 8th. Games could be won almost exclusively because of that spell.
I think the new lores are fun and competitve, and while we lost our scariest spells, we also lost our crappiest ones. The Curse of the Bad Moon or whatever is absolutely hilarious. And awesome. And the Big Waaagh! affinity is...comically straight-forward.

Tell us how this list works for you!

I was thinking of them as purely a tarpit but if I decide to get an additional 10 boyz I will consider the additional choppas, magbetizing ftw

The Fencer's Blades are there for the Fist combo but also as extra protection, making sure that most infantry hits on 5s instead of 3s will go quite a long way towards making him survive, especially if I manage to get "gork ill fix it"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and thanks for all the comments

Fencer's blades are actually, overall, quite nice on a SOrc Shaman (especially a Great Shaman). First round is 3 S5 WS10 attacks, which means that the Great Shaman right there is already comparable with many other armies' combat heroes in offensive capability (not equal / superior, but comparable is pretty good for a non-Ogre or non-Chaos Wizard without using any buffs). Add in the 5+ Ward Save, that it's T5, and three wounds, the model can often at least survive a Hero- or Champion-declared challenge, if not win, before you look at buffs like "Fists" or the re-roll failed "To-Hit" spell (Forget its name in the new book).

I'm not sure if a Savage Orc can take magical armor or not, though. Do they come with any sort of mundane armor? While the "You must have a mundane version to take the magical version" limitation has been removed, does the "You must be able to take an armor upgrade in general" limitation remain or is that gone? If gone, well, 2+ save (with a one-time re-roll), 5+ Ward, and T5 is about the best you'll get on a BSB.

I agree with the assessment that Little Waaagh! > Big Waaagh!, but that's mostly due to my opinion on the spells. "'ere we go" is, mostly, only useful insofar as teleporting a unit behind an enemy unit - if you can't get teleported to a line's flank or rear, you have no real use for it as you can't use it to charge any more. Foot is nice, but somewhat costly to cast (An average of 4-5 dice to be safe, which means decent miscast risk) and - while being a nice template - scatters. The re-roll failed "To Hit" and character-sniping spells are the best hitters I saw for OnG, the "To Hit" for obvious buff reasons and the character sniping to either remove / place early wounds on a character, or to possibly knock out an enemy Wizard early on.

Meanwhile, for Little Waaagh!, you have an (if reduced) Gork'll Fix It, the "Soft Cover + Dangerous Terrain" spell for a unit (best for its bubble-effect), the Bad Moon Curse, and the Signature Spell, as well as the Lore Attribute. OnG magic always worked better either as a Buff or De-Buff system, instead of direct damage. Goblins, overall, have more of said buffs (that aren't limited to the caster only) and one of the only debuffs for OnG.

Personally, I'd take the Feedback Scroll over the Hex Scroll. Hex works decently against a Hero, but is poor against a Lord. Feedback is the reverse, but also especially useful if someone tries to be a smart-ass with rolling 6D6 on a spell but fails to get Irresistible (since you're going to get 2 wounds on average with this, which means either a Dead Hero or a near-dead Lord).

Night Goblins look fine to me. I'd run them either 6x6 with three behind the sixth rank, or five x eight with four in the eight rank, but then I use my Night Goblins more as long-lasting bricks than I do as a mean of combat.

Boyz with Shields I'm not too fond of, but they aren't necessarily bad.

Special and Rare appear to be alright, but the way the list is made just makes the army appear "small" to me. 2250pts, with only about 100 models in Core. I've run 50% more than that at 250 points less when using both a BOrc and Big 'Un brick at 30 strong. Might be my play-style, though, and I've found I do better versus conventional infantry / cavalry armies than I do those with large amounts of monsters or skirmishers.

Thanks for the input, I seem to have missed the part about rolling under or equal the wizard lvl for the hex scroll. so think Ill settle for only taking a dispel scroll

That leavs me with 50pts to spend, 100 if i drop the fanatics form the NGs, not sure they are worth it really...are they?

Fanatics do their dirty work on the first turn, and after that are a wash. With the Spider, Chariots, and Big Un's around, I would be wary of them, but they are pretty sick against those smaller elite units.

Here's something I've noticed about 8th ed. magic: Buffs and Debuffs are universally better than direct damage. Dwellers, Pit, Sun. Those are the exceptions, and with the first two at least, are the exception to the Buffs/Debuffs in their lore.

You guys are flat out insane to think little waagh is better than big waagh. I want to let it go, but I can't. Little waagh has a place on a lvl 1 / 2, but not on a lvl 4 (unless you're using it to take the big spider channel battery, but that's a whole different debate).

Foot of gork is so much better than the bad moon it's not even funny. You have to get relatively close to hit people with the bad moon curse and against most targets you're wounding on a 4+ (most people have str / t 3 and quite a few have I3 or greater). The foot is pretty much ALWAYS wounding on 2's and it can take huge advantage of D3 wounds. Not only that, it can't stomp multiple times!!! You should throw 6 dice at this spell every turn. Sure the foot scatters, but it's a large template with no partials, but the moon has random range.

Hand of gork doesn't need to let you charge to be super helpful. It can help a key unit from not getting charged or to get into a flank / rear position. It's also very helpful to put your black orc killy unit right in the face of their important unit so that it can't avoid a change. 5D6 inches (17.5 on average) is a significant chunk of the board when you're already moving at people.

The sniper spells are insane. Str 5 sniper spell on a hero mage or bsb? str 4/5 D3 WOUNDS!!! on a mage? These spells are incredible.

Let me break it down for you like this:

Goblin base spell. You can cast just effectively with a lvl 2

Light cover / dangerous terrain, gork'll fix it, helpful but far from game winning. Minus I/M spell. Helpful, but very often time doesn't matter. Hand of gork, D3 wound mage sniper, FOOT are all GAME WINNING SPELLS.

Bad moon curse pails in comparison to foot not only in the effects / range of the spell, but because nothing in the lore pressures the enemy to use a scroll. For the first 1/2 turns curse is likely not in even in range, whereas foot is putting pressure on turn 1 (so it will eventually go through). When curse finally gets in range a scroll is almost always handy.

Also, Minsc, you are advocating the use of feedback scroll, yet say little waagh is better. Feedback is very likely to wound, but not kill the mage. Why would you not couple that with a lore with TWO sniper spells!??!?!?!?!?!!?!? It just doesn't make sense.

You guys are hung up on "de buff / buffs are generally better than direct damge." That depends entirely on the lore. Are shadow's debuffs better than fire's direct damage? Heck yes. Relevant comparison because most mages can choose one or the other. However, are little waaagh's buffs / debuffs better than big waaghs direct damage (don't forget the rr to hit buff!). HECK NO.

Warpsolution wrote:Fanatics do their dirty work on the first turn, and after that are a wash. With the Spider, Chariots, and Big Un's around, I would be wary of them, but they are pretty sick against those smaller elite units.

Yes, one must keep this in mind. Only on their turn of release are they reliable. From there, you're lucky to hit something else again unless your enemy is playing "Tightly packed turtle formation"-style armies, and never moves.

Fortunately, being 25pts apiece, they're pretty easy to make their points up on. If you're fighting Chaos Warriors, a pair of them directly make their point cost up if they kill a whopping three-or-so. That's... not a high kill-ratio. Elves? Five-to-six can make their points up for basic troops, three-or-so for Elites. Empire? Five Great Swords, or about nine Swordsmen. They can pretty readily start making up points for both themselves and hosting NG Unit.

Warpsolution wrote:Here's something I've noticed about 8th ed. magic: Buffs and Debuffs are universally better than direct damage. Dwellers, Pit, Sun. Those are the exceptions, and with the first two at least, are the exception to the Buffs/Debuffs in their lore.

Pretty much. Direct Damage works, but only in the absence of buffs.

Leenus wrote:You guys are flat out insane to think little waagh is better than big waagh. I want to let it go, but I can't. Little waagh has a place on a lvl 1 / 2, but not on a lvl 4 (unless you're using it to take the big spider channel battery, but that's a whole different debate).

Simply because it works on a Hero-level character, does not make it inferior.

Leenus wrote:Foot of gork is so much better than the bad moon it's not even funny.

For certain targets, yes. For others, it is not any better at all. Sap someone's initiative by D6, then hit them with a "initiative test or wound" large blast template. I can pretty much promise you you'll do more damage against the unit.

Leenus wrote:You have to get relatively close to hit people with the bad moon curse

... what? Er, no, you don't.

Unless I've been reading a faulty copy of the book, you can place the template on the table anywhere, akin to the Purple Sun. That does not entail you getting closer.

Leenus wrote:and against most targets you're wounding on a 4+ (most people have str / t 3 and quite a few have I3 or greater).

Plow a large blast template of "Initiative Test or Die" through a unit sapped by D6 initiative. Or, alternatively, take that 40 Lotheran Sea Guard unit and force them to take a large blast template Strength Test. You can, most probably, kill have the unit in the effort.

Leenus wrote:The foot is pretty much ALWAYS wounding on 2's and it can take huge advantage of D3 wounds. Not only that, it can't stomp multiple times!!! You should throw 6 dice at this spell every turn. Sure the foot scatters, but it's a large template with no partials, but the moon has random range.

It's not the large template, it's about the size of a Fallen Giant template, which is smaller(ish) in dimensions. Furthermore, you're talking about taking a Level 3 / Level 4 Shaman and consistently trying to miscast with it. This may just me playing conservatively, but why in Gork's name would you throw out six dice every turn trying to blow up your Great Shaman for a spell that has a 50% chance of only stomping once, and 2/3 chance of not landing on the target in the first place?

Leenus wrote:It's also very helpful to put your black orc killy unit right in the face of their important unit so that it can't avoid a change.

Sure they can. It's called "charge you". And you're still open, if they don't charge, to being shot, magic'd, etcetera.

It has a greater advantage for its mobility than it does combat potential, and the mobility will really only come into play when you're planning for charges, and the random relocation distance limits how reliably you can set yourself up.

Leenus wrote:The sniper spells are insane. Str 5 sniper spell on a hero mage or bsb? str 4/5 D3 WOUNDS!!! on a mage? These spells are incredible.

I'm not seeing how I'm insane not thinking these are the most amazing spells ever, better than most of the Goblin spells.

Leenus wrote:Goblin base spell. You can cast just effectively with a lvl 2

Level 2? You can cast it reliably on a single D6 (from the Pool) with a Level 1 Shaman. An 83%-ish chance on a Level 1 Night Goblin Shaman, with a single power-pool die.

Leenus wrote:Light cover / dangerous terrain, gork'll fix it, helpful but far from game winning.

Reducing the hit-odds of shooting at a Large Target, reducing the amount of hits / wounds / armor saves passed, those can be very helpful. I don't understand how you can consider "Re-roll all 6's to Hit, To Wound, and To Save" to be inferior to "Cause a S5 hit on a single model with Wards allowed and no multi-wound".

Minsc wrote:

Leenus wrote:You guys are flat out insane to think little waagh is better than big waagh. I want to let it go, but I can't. Little waagh has a place on a lvl 1 / 2, but not on a lvl 4 (unless you're using it to take the big spider channel battery, but that's a whole different debate).

Simply because it works on a Hero-level character, does not make it inferior.

My point here was that you can get a useful spell out of the lore with a low level caster, because the base spell is useful. Big waagh is better, but little waagh still has a use. I explain why it's inferior later.

Minsc wrote:

Leenus wrote:Foot of gork is so much better than the bad moon it's not even funny.

For certain targets, yes. For others, it is not any better at all. Sap someone's initiative by D6, then hit them with a "initiative test or wound" large blast template. I can pretty much promise you you'll do more damage against the unit.

You do know the big badmoon is 25+ right? To cast that you pretty much have to throw 6 dice. If you're throwing 6 dice, you've generated enough dispel dice in most cases that the opponent, if he's not an idiot, will simply dispel the D6 initiative spell. Worst case he's rolling 4 dispell vs. 3 casting (includes a mushroom). If you think you're casting a 25+ on fewer than 6 dice, you're kidding yourself.

Minsc wrote:

Leenus wrote:You have to get relatively close to hit people with the bad moon curse

... what? Er, no, you don't.

Unless I've been reading a faulty copy of the book, you can place the template on the table anywhere, akin to the Purple Sun. That does not entail you getting closer.

When i heard about the magical vortex placement issue i WAAAGHED! all the way to my BRB and Leenus is right it DOES start at the casters base. That sucks cause my friends WoC purple sunned my ENTIRE O&G army from across the table :(

Regarding the armour on a savage issue. Unless there is something in the big rule book that I have missed there is nothing stopping a SO from taking magical armour. The magic armour limitation only goes for wizards I assume?

From what I understood, you need to be able to take a type of item to get a magical version. But that might be a holdout in my mind from previous editions. I hope it is.

And here's the last and final thing I'll say about the magic:

1- no more walls o' text and quote wars, in the name of the Horned Rat. Sheesh.

2- they're both good. They both have their place. I will say that, in my OPINION, more spells of the Little Waaagh! seem better than those of the Big Waaagh! than vise versa. Foot rocks. Fists rocks. Extra +1 S versus stealing a die (even if it's only on a 5+)? The latter is probably better.

Buffs generally do more than direct damage. That's a fact. Re-rolling hits/wounds will almost always generate more dead enemies than hitting them 2d6 times at S4.
Case and point: what are the big lores: Basically...Life and Shadow. What isn't: Fire.

But both orc and goblin lores are good. The end.