Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've Been Playing Tau For About 4 Years Now And Have Decided To Change My Army, How Is This List For GW Games/Tournaments Mainly To Be Used Vs Marines. On My 2 HQ Choices I Have Decided To Keep Them As They Have Been Very Valuable In Games.

HQ:

Shas'o Firestorm 132
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, H/W Multi Tracker

2 Bodyguard 176
Plasma Rifles, Burst Cannons, Shields, H/W Multi Trackers

Troops:

12 Fire Warriors 160
Shas'ui, Marker Drone

12 Fire Warriors 200
Devilfish

15 Kroot 121
10 Carnivores, Shaper, 5 Hunds

Elites:

3 Crisis 159
TL Fusion Blasters, Targeting Arrays

3 Crisis 159
TL Missile Pods, Targeting Arrays

Heavy Support:

Hammerhead 165
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pod

3 Broadsides 225
Target Locks

On The Underlined Squad Im Not Too Sure What To Have, I Was Considering 2 Sniper Drones, Any Suggestions

I would get rid of the bodyguards, and get three fireknives instead. It is going to be a little more expensive, but you are going to get more bang for your buck.

Get rid of the marker drone on the fire warriors. A single markerlight isn't going to do much for you. If you are going to buy a team leader, get a bonding knife.

Disruption pod on your devilfish?

Shapers generally aren't worth it, especially at this point level.

I don't know if the TL fusion blaster suits are really very effective. Thats a lot of points for 3 shots. Granted they are going to hit most of the time, but they are way too specialized. IMO Railgun>fusion blaster for AT.

I think Advanced Stabilization System will be better for your broadsides. Currently, sure they can split fire, however, they can't move and shoot.

I would keep the Deathrain suits. They are great, and sniper drones are kinda subpar.

PraetorDave wrote:I would get rid of the bodyguards, and get three fireknives instead. It is going to be a little more expensive, but you are going to get more bang for your buck.

Get rid of the marker drone on the fire warriors. A single markerlight isn't going to do much for you. If you are going to buy a team leader, get a bonding knife.

Disruption pod on your devilfish?

Shapers generally aren't worth it, especially at this point level.

I don't know if the TL fusion blaster suits are really very effective. Thats a lot of points for 3 shots. Granted they are going to hit most of the time, but they are way too specialized. IMO Railgun>fusion blaster for AT.

I think Advanced Stabilization System will be better for your broadsides. Currently, sure they can split fire, however, they can't move and shoot.

I would keep the Deathrain suits. They are great, and sniper drones are kinda subpar.

Instead Of The TL Fusion Suits Should I Get More Deathrains? I Like TL Fusion As They Could Kill 2-3 Terminators A Turn Or Even Wipe 3 Wounds Off A Large Tyranid Creature As Well As Take Down A Tank. I Would Obviously Be Deep Striking Them So They Could Be Useful


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also What I Do Is Keep Broadsides In Cover, For Me They Don't Need To Move When Most Of The Time They Can See Tanks.

If I Don't Need The Sunforge suits i could always get 2 sniper drones instead of them, that would give me plenty of AI and AT , what do you think?

I would go with more deathrains instead. Fusion blasters have a range of 12". So unless you wipe out what ever you are shooting at (and with 3 shots, not very likely), they are going to get assaulted next turn. And if they happen to wiff...well say good bye to 160 points. Though you are right, they can insta-kill quite a bit of stuff.

Deathrains have a range of 36", so they will be much more survivable, and can take better advantage of cover.

I Play Marines Most Of The Time So Anti Marines Is what I'm Looking for and for me Deathrains just dont kill any, sure you can easily get 6 wounds but then the other player passes about 5 of them.

Helios will rip terminators apart, although they are expensive (and require you to be close to them...)

Crisis Battlesuits (3)
-(PR/FB/MT)
186 Pts.

2.5 Dead Terminators a turn (With ML support that would increase signficantly)

Crisis Battlesuits (3)
-(TL FB/TA)
159 Pts.

1.48 Dead Terminators a turn

Helios is the way to go. And, since you have a d-fish, I would highly suggest getting 8 pathfinders.

Altogether, this is what I would suggest:

Splitting broadsides into 2 units, and so you only need 1 target lock.

Downgrade the bodyguards to an elites unit. Get rid of 1 unit of fire warriors (the one with the marker drone). Upgrade fish to warfish. Get 8 pathfinders, and equip your crisis suits as:

Dethrain+ (3) - 156
Helios (3) - 186
Helios (were bodyguards - 2) - 124

You should break about even then. Your list as a whole would look like:

Commander Helios (w/ 2 Shield Drones) - 117 Pts.

Dethrain+ (3) - 156
Helios (3) - 186
Helios (2) - 124

Fire Warrios (12) - 120
Kroot (12/shaper/5 hounds) - 121

Pathfinders (8) - 96
Warfish - 120

Broadside (1 w/ TA) - 80
Broadsides (2 w/ TA, 1 TL w/ TL) - 170
Hammerhead w/ BC/MT/DP/TL - 175

1441 Points, enough for more kroot!

The Bringer wrote:Helios will rip terminators apart, although they are expensive (and require you to be close to them...)

Crisis Battlesuits (3)
-(PR/FB/MT)
186 Pts.

2.5 Dead Terminators a turn (With ML support that would increase signficantly)

Crisis Battlesuits (3)
-(TL FB/TA)
159 Pts.

1.48 Dead Terminators a turn

Helios is the way to go. And, since you have a d-fish, I would highly suggest getting 8 pathfinders.

Altogether, this is what I would suggest:

Splitting broadsides into 2 units, and so you only need 1 target lock.

Downgrade the bodyguards to an elites unit. Get rid of 1 unit of fire warriors (the one with the marker drone). Upgrade fish to warfish. Get 8 pathfinders, and equip your crisis suits as:

Dethrain+ (3) - 156
Helios (3) - 186
Helios (were bodyguards - 2) - 124

You should break about even then. Your list as a whole would look like:

Commander Helios (w/ 2 Shield Drones) - 117 Pts.

Dethrain+ (3) - 156
Helios (3) - 186
Helios (2) - 124

Fire Warrios (12) - 120
Kroot (12/shaper/5 hounds) - 121

Pathfinders (8) - 96
Warfish - 120

Broadside (1 w/ TA) - 80
Broadsides (2 w/ TA, 1 TL w/ TL) - 170
Hammerhead w/ BC/MT/DP/TL - 175

1441 Points, enough for more kroot!

Looks Like A Solid List! I'll Try and Put Most Of these options into my list, thing is i don't want to buy loads of new models. Most of the models in my list (other than the broadsides). I have, after finishing my tau list i want to move onto my Chaos

I pm'd a response to this, but I'll post here for posterity.


If your worry is about WYSIWYG, I've never been called on not having enough missile pods. But if you need extra missile pod bitz, you can order them online. I think eBay has the cheapest missile pods; I'm pretty sure you can get them for about $2-2.50 a bit. But if you can't get your models WYSIWYG and you can't afford the bitz, then go with fireknives. But I do suggest getting some more missile pods from online.

Aside from your crisis suits, I still don't like the broadsides. You need the advanced stabilization system because you can't afford to be stationary. Then you can upgrade one broadside to be a team leader and give him a target lock so he can shoot at something different. Finally, your troop choices. At 1500 points, I don't think you can afford devilfish, so you'll have to footslog the fire warriors. Or, if you go with devilfish, you probably shouldn't take kroot, or broadsides for that matter. I think a viable second option to a suit-heavy list is a vehicle-heavy list. You might go with something like this:

1500/1500

--HQ--

1 Shas'el 87
-Missile Pod
-Plasma Rifle
-Multi-tracker

--Elites--

3 Crisis Suits 186
-Plasma Rifle x3
-Missile Pod x3
-Multi-tracker x3

3 Crisis Suits 186
-Plasma Rifle x3
-Missile Pod x3
-Multi-tracker x3

3 Crisis Suits 186
-Plasma Rifle x3
-Missile Pod x3
-Multi-tracker x3

--Troops--

6 Fire Warriors 145
-Pulse Carbines x6
1 Devilfish
-Disruption Pod

6 Fire Warriors 145
-Pulse Carbines x6
1 Devilfish
-Disruption Pod

--Fast Attack--

1 Piranha 75
-Fusion Blaster
-Targeting Array
-Disruption Pod

1 Piranha 75
-Fusion Blaster
-Targeting Array
-Disruption Pod

--Heavy Support--

1 Hammerhead 165
-Railgun
-Burst Cannons
-Multi-tracker
-Disruption Pod

3 Broadsides 250
-Advanced Stabilization System x3
-Team Leader
--Target Lock

That gives you a nice spread of units, foot and mech. Your army is fragile, but it packs a huge punch, which should carry you at 1500 points. You should be able to eat marines for breakfast with this list and ask for seconds. You have 10 plasma guns on jet pack infantry and four S10 AP1 railguns that you can shoot at three different targets. You're light on troop choices, but at least they're mounted in a fairly sturdy transport. Plus you have a bunch of pinning weapons (20 pulse carbines throughout 6 units [2 fire warrior squads, four 2-man units of gun drones]).

Hope that helps.

Knute

I really like that list knute... but there are 2 things I would change. First of all, I would get rid of the piranhas and get 2 units of 6 pathfinders, which will benefit the army much more than the piranhas imho.

2nd is that (as he says he'll play against marines a lot) is that fireknives won't cut it. The plasma rifle is worth it's points when you are in rapid fire range, and that is the range that the Fusion blaster would be in range at all, so I'd switch out the missile pods for fusion blasters on 2 of those fire-knife units.

@ Knute - Pulse carbines? This is marines he'll be playing most likely... so IF you actually wound a marine, they will most likely make their leadership... I think pulse carbines are a completely bad investment... I would put pulse rifles on my fire warriors.

Knute wrote:I pm'd a response to this, but I'll post here for posterity.


If your worry is about WYSIWYG, I've never been called on not having enough missile pods. But if you need extra missile pod bitz, you can order them online. I think eBay has the cheapest missile pods; I'm pretty sure you can get them for about $2-2.50 a bit. But if you can't get your models WYSIWYG and you can't afford the bitz, then go with fireknives. But I do suggest getting some more missile pods from online.

Aside from your crisis suits, I still don't like the broadsides. You need the advanced stabilization system because you can't afford to be stationary. Then you can upgrade one broadside to be a team leader and give him a target lock so he can shoot at something different. Finally, your troop choices. At 1500 points, I don't think you can afford devilfish, so you'll have to footslog the fire warriors. Or, if you go with devilfish, you probably shouldn't take kroot, or broadsides for that matter. I think a viable second option to a suit-heavy list is a vehicle-heavy list. You might go with something like this:

That gives you a nice spread of units, foot and mech. Your army is fragile, but it packs a huge punch, which should carry you at 1500 points. You should be able to eat marines for breakfast with this list and ask for seconds. You have 10 plasma guns on jet pack infantry and four S10 AP1 railguns that you can shoot at three different targets. You're light on troop choices, but at least they're mounted in a fairly sturdy transport. Plus you have a bunch of pinning weapons (20 pulse carbines throughout 6 units [2 fire warrior squads, four 2-man units of gun drones]).

Hope that helps.

Knute

Thanks For The Info On Ebay but it's not the amount of MP's i have it's that i've already glued a TL Fb Combo on and don't have the arms to replace them if the conversions go wrong. Plus i know how good the TL MP combo can be but i'm not a fan of it, i prefer to have lots of PR's and BC's vs marines so i get a mix of lots of shots and AP Puncturing.

I Can see what you mean about the Broadsides and I know how useful the ASS can be but in my games i stick them in cover so they get their save against Instakill stuff, i never feel the need to move them due to them seeing most of the board and the 50% Vehicle Obscurity Rules.

I'm Redoing This List Anyway As with Several Other Armies As I Feel I Can Do Better So I Shall Post A Pm Or Reply On Here?

@Bringer:
1. I don't like pathfinders without a kroot shield. Without the kroot shield they're exposed to outflankers and melee. Additionally, on tournament boards you will probably have difficulty sticking them in cover due to its general lack on tournament tables. But they both fulfill different roles in the list so I'm not going to say that piranha are better per se.

2.I fail to see how replacing plasma rifles with fusion blasters will increase the list's effectiveness against marines. I would assume the exact opposite since the fusion blasters, whose range you note is the same as the rapid-fire range of plasma rifles, would shoot one shot less than plasma rifles. Unless you're suggesting he will face a lot of land raiders at this point level, I fail to see how replacing a plasma rifle with a fusion blaster will help the list against marines.

3. Pulse carbines aren't really an investment because they're free, but that's beside the point. The fact is that the fire warriors won't be killing much of anything in the first place; might as well give them something that has a low chance of doing something rather than a 0% chance of doing something.

@Buzzsaw: I don't think burst cannons would help you any because they have half the range of missile pods. I don't know about anyone else, but if my crisis suits are 18" or less away from an enemy unit, I'm either already winning or I'm about to lose. Burst cannons pigeonhole the unit into an anti-infantry role and take away the role flexibility from the crisis suits. And that's what I don't like about burst cannons.

Knute wrote:

@Buzzsaw: I don't think burst cannons would help you any because they have half the range of missile pods. I don't know about anyone else, but if my crisis suits are 18" or less away from an enemy unit, I'm either already winning or I'm about to lose. Burst cannons pigeonhole the unit into an anti-infantry role and take away the role flexibility from the crisis suits. And that's what I don't like about burst cannons.

When I Get Posts On This About Crisis Though I Get Told Not To Make Them Flexible As I Had A FB/BC Combo, It May not be the best but when i use it the combo works. I get told to use crisis to 1 specific role so every model has a part to play in your army but i like making them flexible.

Knute, I said that the missile pods should be swapped out in 2 units, not the Plasma Rifles. , which would make them better... just riskier.

I can see why you like carbines... its your call what you do buzzsaw.

I wouldn't spend points to get a kroot shield for pathfinders, but you could use the D-fish for a gun-drone shield, which can work, although for only 1 turn.

*facepalm*

My bad. I still don't like it though. It requires the suits to be close range to do anything, and "close" is not where you want to be with crisis suits.

@Buzzsaw: whoever told you that was unwise. Crisis suits are the only unit in the entire codex that has enough options to be flexible. By "flexible" I mean it can do two things at once. For example, guard veteran squads can carry special weapons AND cap objectives--they're flexible. Tac squads can take a missile launcher, flamer/plasma, and combat squad--they're flexible. Crisis suits can carry missile pods and plasma rifles, making them ideal for anti-infantry and killing light vehicles, like transports--they're flexible. Now, when you pigeonhole a flexible unit into a single role, that's bad because you're not using the unit to its fullest. Burst cannon + fusion blaster may look flexible, but it really isn't. You have to choose which one to be for that turn--anti-vehicle, or anti-light infantry. You can't do both in the same turn. Vet squads can sit on an objective and pump four special weapons shots into something in the exact same turn. Tac squads can cap TWO objectives, kill infantry AND vehicles, also all in the same turn. With burst cannont/fusion blaster suits, you have to make a conscious decision early in the game which targets you're going to send them after. If you misplace the unit, you're effed. With missile pod/plasma rifle squads, you can sit back a health distance away and not make the decision of which unit you're going to shoot at until the shooting phase. They present you with more options. The fact that the missile is S7 makes it great because you wound most things on 2+, and everything else on 3+, and you can kill transports. For burst cannon/fusion blaster suits to have the same degree of flexibility, you'd have to go after...transports. Which, I've already shown, are just as easily popped from 30-42" away as they are from 18" away. Plus, when you're half the board away from the front lines, you have room to maneuver. Therefore, I highly recommend against taking burst cannon/fusion blaster suits since, imho, they're strictly worse than almost any other configuration you can put on a crisis suit.

Knute wrote:*facepalm*

My bad. I still don't like it though. It requires the suits to be close range to do anything, and "close" is not where you want to be with crisis suits.

@Buzzsaw: whoever told you that was unwise. Crisis suits are the only unit in the entire codex that has enough options to be flexible. By "flexible" I mean it can do two things at once. For example, guard veteran squads can carry special weapons AND cap objectives--they're flexible. Tac squads can take a missile launcher, flamer/plasma, and combat squad--they're flexible. Crisis suits can carry missile pods and plasma rifles, making them ideal for anti-infantry and killing light vehicles, like transports--they're flexible. Now, when you pigeonhole a flexible unit into a single role, that's bad because you're not using the unit to its fullest. Burst cannon + fusion blaster may look flexible, but it really isn't. You have to choose which one to be for that turn--anti-vehicle, or anti-light infantry. You can't do both in the same turn. Vet squads can sit on an objective and pump four special weapons shots into something in the exact same turn. Tac squads can cap TWO objectives, kill infantry AND vehicles, also all in the same turn. With burst cannont/fusion blaster suits, you have to make a conscious decision early in the game which targets you're going to send them after. If you misplace the unit, you're effed. With missile pod/plasma rifle squads, you can sit back a health distance away and not make the decision of which unit you're going to shoot at until the shooting phase. They present you with more options. The fact that the missile is S7 makes it great because you wound most things on 2+, and everything else on 3+, and you can kill transports. For burst cannon/fusion blaster suits to have the same degree of flexibility, you'd have to go after...transports. Which, I've already shown, are just as easily popped from 30-42" away as they are from 18" away. Plus, when you're half the board away from the front lines, you have room to maneuver. Therefore, I highly recommend against taking burst cannon/fusion blaster suits since, imho, they're strictly worse than almost any other configuration you can put on a crisis suit.

Yeah I See You're Point On The Ranges But I'm Not Too Sure If I Can Change The Weapons :/ I've Got Enough Money For 3 More Crisis so i'll spend it on a new unit.

@Knute:

The PR/BC Combo works really well on my suits, I know the ranges are different but i usually Deep Strike them in anyway and they'll kill enough marines with the burst cannons as well, i'd choose BC's over MP's as you get more bang for your buck as you get more shots and besides they wound on 3's which is better than having S4

I Dropped the TL Fusion Blaster Unit and took another unit of 3 Auoras, this leaves me with 147 Points, I Could Go Deathrain but would lack a targetting array. I've decided to keep the Marker Drone Fw Squad as they have been good for me, 12 S5 Shots from 30" sitting on an obj or if an enemy deep strikes or gets close the markerlight can hit giving me 24 S5 Shots at BS 4, It kills a lot of guys.

Let's crunch some numbers:

BC vs. Marines
3 shots
2 wound
.66 dead marines

MP vs. Marines
2 Shots
1.67 wound
.56 dead marines

FB vs. marines
1 Shot
.83 wound
.83 dead marines... we have a winner! Just 6" shorter range than a BC (and with the range of the FB, the PR can rapid fire - bonus!)

Really though, I have an even better idea:

3 PR/BC/MT suits - 174 Pts
dead marines...
With Rapid Fire - 3.5
Without Rapid Fire - 2.25

2 Sniper Drone Teams - 160 Pts
dead marines...
Without Rapid Fire - 2.92
(Not to mention you have a Stealth Field Generator, pinning, and can fire these babies at 36"... and you also have a heavy support slot open... so it might even be worth getting rid of a piranha for a 3rd unit of them.)

The Bringer wrote:Let's crunch some numbers...

.83 dead marines... we have a winner! Just 6" shorter range than a BC (and with the range of the FB, the PR can rapid fire - bonus!)

Really though, I have an even better idea:

3 PR/BC/MT suits - 174 Pts
dead marines...
With Rapid Fire - 3.5
Without Rapid Fire - 2.25

2 Sniper Drone Teams - 160 Pts
dead marines...
Without Rapid Fire - 2.92
(Not to mention you have a Stealth Field Generator, pinning, and can fire these babies at 36"... and you also have a heavy support slot open... so it might even be worth getting rid of a piranha for a 3rd unit of them.)

I Love Your Number Crunching... =D

Truth is I have 147 Points Left With 6 Suits, I'd Love 2 Sniper Drone Teams But I'd Need 13 Points, My Bodyguard's Shields have saved me too many times and i feel if i drop them then 1 battlecannon shot can wipe the whole squad out no saves or nothing!

I'll see what i can do about the 13 points, overall, If i changed the TL Fusion Suits with a PR/BC/MT Suit team and added the sniper drones would that be a good list?

You're numbers are off because you're not taking into account the chances to hit, but whatevs. Do what you want.

Knute wrote:You're numbers are off because you're not taking into account the chances to hit, but whatevs. Do what you want.

I believe I actually did account for that, as well as the probability the markerlight would hit for the marker drones:

3 PR/BC Suits
3/6 PR Shots
9 BC Shots

1.5/3 hit
4.5 hit

1.25/2.5 wound
3 wound

1.25/2.5 dead (PR)
1 dead (BC)

Then 6 sniper drones and 2 spotters
6 Shots (2/3 of the time they will be BS 4)

3.67 Hits
3.05 Wound
3.05 Dead

I did get it wrong, the first time I acted as though the spotter was BS3, not BS4, so they are better than I had previously estimated.

/shrug
I still think the numbers are misleading because the burst cannon is short range and only useful against dismounted infantry. They're useful if you're playing against tons of dismounted tactical marines, and that's about it.

Knute wrote:/shrug
I still think the numbers are misleading because the burst cannon is short range and only useful against dismounted infantry. They're useful if you're playing against tons of dismounted tactical marines, and that's about it.

Is the PR/FL, a good combo against infantry? seeing that the weapons could both take out marines or horde

I suppose against infantry it would be alright, but it does require you to get up close and personal, and it isn't the most points-efficient build for taking down infantry. At 750 points and less, in patrol-style games, I run my crisis suits with Burst cannons/flamers.

I have 162 Points, So I can just afford the least expesnive combo that includes a PR, I want a crisis unit that could come down and shoot a SM unit to hell rather than stay back. It could support my Kroot, Devilfish FW's and my other Crisis.

well, 160 points is 2 units of sniper drones teams

Which, would flay marines, and have a slight chance of pinning (which coupled with ML support, would almost guarantee a pin).

lol. If you want something that's going to deep strike and kill a bunch of marines, I direct you to another codex, because that just doesn't happen with tau. But I do know that when I used to run a unit like that, I ran missile pods and fusion blasters because the fusion blasters were 8 points cheaper than plasma rifles. So three crisis suits with Fusion Blaster - Missile Pod - multi-tracker would clock in at exactly 162 points.

Knute wrote:lol. If you want something that's going to deep strike and kill a bunch of marines, I direct you to another codex, because that just doesn't happen with tau. But I do know that when I used to run a unit like that, I ran missile pods and fusion blasters because the fusion blasters were 8 points cheaper than plasma rifles. So three crisis suits with Fusion Blaster - Missile Pod - multi-tracker would clock in at exactly 162 points.

Lol, pretty much any other codex has something that could do that (i.e., any marines codex/nids/...)

Really though, Sniper drone teams can kill about 50 points of marines a turn on average, and so they pay off really quickly. I would suggest making the points for them, the more the merrier. I would even suggest getting rid of some crisis suits to supply the points so you could have 3 units of them.

Or, you could also get an ionhead, and convert your railhead to an ionhead for a total of 2. Those can down marines fairly quickly, and can take down light vehicles when needed to.

The Bringer wrote:well, 160 points is 2 units of sniper drones teams

Which, would flay marines, and have a slight chance of pinning (which coupled with ML support, would almost guarantee a pin).

I already have 2 =D, which means my heavy slots are taken :/ minusing the deathrain squad i have 159


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Knute wrote:lol. If you want something that's going to deep strike and kill a bunch of marines, I direct you to another codex, because that just doesn't happen with tau. But I do know that when I used to run a unit like that, I ran missile pods and fusion blasters because the fusion blasters were 8 points cheaper than plasma rifles. So three crisis suits with Fusion Blaster - Missile Pod - multi-tracker would clock in at exactly 162 points.

I would have more PR/BC units but i don't have the points, they are really effective vs marines, combining the amount of shots with Armour piercing shots. BC's aren't woeful against vehicles either, they can easily penatrate rear armour of most takes if they deep strike and blow up a vehicle considering the squad had 9 shots the chances are you'll have 1 six or a 5 from the hits.