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Had a game this weekend that started a heated discussion (or yell fest) at my flgs. Essentially i had 3 squads of combat squadded sternguard in front of drop pods. Essentially what happened was a person called an assault with abaddon and 2 lightning claw termies to the center squad now by my knowledge you must try to get as many models in base with the first unit before breaking to a second unit. he instead charged two lc terminators to the center squad and barely keeping coherency got abaddon to the second i argued that it was an illegal move but perhaps i was wrong i have drawn a diagram using paint.


Please let me know if you think im correct or if i was just making an asshat of myself.

You were wrong, sadly.

If you CAREFULLY read the assault rules, you will notice there is *no* requirement for ANY model, beyond the first, to make contact with the initial unit. None.

If you can move such that you maintain coherency with an already moved model, get into btb with an unengaged model, the assault rules could care less whether it was part of the initial squad or not.

With the larger bases on Terminators it's quite easy to multi-assault - 40mm bases offer up to a 30mm advantage between two units. By the look of that diagram it would have been less risky for Abbadon to declare his assault against squad 1 (as he was closest) and THEN move the termies. As long as he isn't exceeding his movement allowance or breaking coherency he's fine.

If it were set up exactly as it is in the diagram I would argue that you couldn't move Abbadon first. The rules say to pick the model that is closest to the enemy and move that first. Not pick the model that is closest to the unit you are assaulting.

Read further:

"Move the model into contact with the nearest enemy model in the unit being assaulted"

Right, but in the above diagram one of the lightning claw terminators is clearly closer to the enemy than Abbadon is. So that terminator would have to be moved first.

Edit: Obligatory rules quote, pg. 34 "The model selected must be the one closest to the enemy (going around impassable terrain, friendly models and enemy models in units not being assaulted.)" So if you move Addadon first, you then can't assault the unit that the little bit in front terminator was closest to without breaking the rule.

kmdl1066 wrote:Right, but in the above diagram one of the lightning claw terminators is clearly closer to the enemy than Abbadon is. So that terminator would have to be moved first.

Edit: Obligatory rules quote, pg. 34 "The model selected must be the one closest to the enemy (going around impassable terrain, friendly models and enemy models in units not being assaulted.)" So if you move Addadon first, you then can't assault the unit that the little bit in front terminator was closest to without breaking the rule.

The OP seems to suggest that Abaddon was moved last...so I'm not sure why this is being nit-picked over. The assault sounds completely legal from what I can tell.

Well obviously because I'm an idiot who can't read.

Yeah looks legal. I don't know how this ended in a "yell fest", at a (f)lgs where you have the damn rulebook. The rulebook doesn't say anywhere "you must try to get as many models in base with the first unit before breaking to a second unit", and If you had spent a minute to read the complex assault rules, you probably wouldn't have had a "yell fest". You certainly have to get in base to base if possible with a model the unit is assaulting, but because he's assaulting two different unit... he gets to pick! as long as he's in coherency.

So since you asked it, yeah I'd say you probably made an asshat out of yourself if this turned into a yell fest, doubly so if you were at a gaming store!

We play late at my gamestore on weekends after hours this arguement occured after some liquid courage at about 2 am. So yeah I prolly was an asshat but ill be man enough to admit my mistake and apologize thanks for helping clear it up.

Jihallah wrote:Yeah looks legal. I don't know how this ended in a "yell fest", at a (f)lgs where you have the damn rulebook. The rulebook doesn't say anywhere "you must try to get as many models in base with the first unit before breaking to a second unit", and If you had spent a minute to read the complex assault rules, you probably wouldn't have had a "yell fest". You certainly have to get in base to base if possible with a model the unit is assaulting, but because he's assaulting two different unit... he gets to pick! as long as he's in coherency.

So since you asked it, yeah I'd say you probably made an asshat out of yourself if this turned into a yell fest, doubly so if you were at a gaming store!

I never fail to be amazed at how many rules discussions grow to a heated level when both players are mere feet away from both the rule book and the appropriate codices, but neither person seems interested in opening any of these resources.

kmdl1066 wrote:Well obviously because I'm an idiot who can't read.

Additionally - he COULD have assaulted Abaddon into the left hand unit (from the picture) unit first, then moved the LC terminators into the other squad, as you only have to move the first model into the unit you declared the assault - the rest just have to reach btb with an unengaged model, where possible.

From memory there has never been a requirement to assault as many models in one unit as possible before moving onto the next - hoeever there has not been a rule that a vehicle and embarked unit are a single unit, but some people erroneously think they are

I believe when multiple assaults were first possible in 3rd edition, there was a requirement to completely engage the first unit before moving onto the next.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

vaderx30 wrote:We play late at my gamestore on weekends after hours this arguement occured after some liquid courage at about 2 am. So yeah I prolly was an asshat but ill be man enough to admit my mistake and apologize thanks for helping clear it up.

Well, this context does make the error a little more understandable. Good on you for doing the right thing, now.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

kmdl1066 wrote:Well obviously because I'm an idiot who can't read.

Additionally - he COULD have assaulted Abaddon into the left hand unit (from the picture) unit first, then moved the LC terminators into the other squad, as you only have to move the first model into the unit you declared the assault - the rest just have to reach btb with an unengaged model, where possible.

From memory there has never been a requirement to assault as many models in one unit as possible before moving onto the next - hoeever there has not been a rule that a vehicle and embarked unit are a single unit, but some people erroneously think they are

Oh absolutely I'm putting my hand up on this one saying I must have been smoking something when I read the OP and looked at the diagram. I had some bizarre situation in mind where the assault only worked because Abaddon moved first because if he didn't they wouldn't be able to multi-assault and maintain coherency.

Thanks for all the comments guys I appreciate you helping me work this out for my own sanity.