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So I've been working on this list lately for 2500pts, and would like some feedback. Basically I want the army to primarily be about big scary armored dudes that are a PITA to kill and a nigh unkillable Khorne lord on jugger because he looks just too badass. Most common opponents will be shooty gunline warmachine heavy Dwarves and Book of Hoeth Lore of Metal High Elves. With this in mind, any significant changes that should be made while keeping within the concept of basically Warriors+Knights and derivatives?

I also need to cut 35pts somewhere, what's the best thing to cut?

Chaos Lord:
Mark of Khorne
Armor of Destiny
Nercrotic Phylactery
Sword of Strife
Jugger
Shield

(8 attacks including magic weapon & frenzy, immune to stuff like purple sun and dwellers, 1+AS, 4+ ward, 3+ ward against spell wounds, goes in with Knights). The big thing I'm worried about with this guy is cannons.

Exalted Hero
Battle Standard Bearer
Mark of Tzeentch
Fury of the Blood God
Shield

Chaos Sorceror
Level 2
Mark of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch
Dispell Scroll

15 Warriors, Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command

15 Warriors, Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command

15 Warriors, Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command

15 Warriors, Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command

5 Knights, Banner of Rage, Banner Bearer, Musician, Mark of Nurgle.

Hell Cannon

Warshrine w/MoT


Thoughts?

a few suggestions, combine the warriors into two blocks of 30...they'll last longer and save you points. drop the mot on the warshrine and give your lvl 2 third eye of tzeentch and at least the charmed shield. Ive been running a lvl 2 on disc with the charmed sheild, tailsman of endurance, spell fam and third eye backed by lvl 1 fireball DS caddy in my 2250 list.

Ok, went through and updated/changed this a bit based on various feedback. Primary opponents likely to be Magic intensive HE (book of hoeth, lore of Heavens And/Or Metal), Gunline warmachine+hordeironbreakers Dwarves, and to a lesser extent Skaven, Beastmen and Lizardmen.

Chaos Lord:
Mark of Khorne
Armor of Destiny
Nercrotic Phylactery
Sword of Swift Slaying
Favour of the Gods
Jugger
Shield

(6 attacks including magic weapon & frenzy that re-roll failed to hit rolls against anything not Init 8/9/10 and almost always get to hit first or at worst at the same time, immune to stuff like purple sun and dwellers, 1+AS, 4+ ward, 3+ ward against spell wounds, goes in with Knights). Big worry is Cannons.

Exalted Hero
Battle Standard Bearer
Mark of Tzeentch
Talisman of Preservation
Ironcurse Icon
Shield

(Goes in 24man unit, with a 3+ AS, 3+ Ward, allows unit 5+ ward against warmachine attacks)

Chaos Sorceror
Level 2
Mark of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch
Dispel Scroll
Golden Eye of Tzeentch.

(3+ armor, 6+ Ward, 3+ Ward against shooting/magic missiles)



24 Warriors, Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command, Lichebone Pennant (5+ ward save against magic spells in conjunction with MoT)

15 Warriors, Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command

15 Warriors, Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command

5 Knights, Blasted Standard, Banner Bearer, Musician, Mark of Khorne

Hell Cannon

Warshrine w/MoT


Thoughts? Should be 2489pts.

I'd drop the knights and a unit of warriors for Troll unit + Trogg.

I'm not a fan of the Hell Cannon but I can't deny...whether its shooting or ate its crew and charging into combat that thing is MEAN.

if you are worried abuot canons of the lord remove the collar, shield and armor of destiny and jsut give him the talisman of preservation for a 1+AS 4+ward, you would save 38 points from doing that and your lord will have better saves.

then you can either take your BSB as

MoT,armor of destiny, chaos steed, shield
2+ AS 3+ ward

or if you want him to walk just the armor and a shield which will give hima 3+,3+

then you can give the lvl 2 the Ironcurse icon, Dispel scroll and a spell familiar or just keep the points and either run him with the BSB in the 24 man unit or run him with a 30 man unit of Warriors

The Armor of Destiny is heavy armor and would remove your Chaos Armor. You'd be at a 4+/3++.

Myself I have my bsb with the talisman of endurance, MoT and shield. If he's in a large or hard block of infantry then you'll be safe from shooting. This way he's affordable around 180 and safe. If you really feel the need you could add the charmed shield instead of the normal shield, but it should be saved for your caster or your lord since they'll be easy to pick out with warmachine fire.

Belive it or not, Tzeench Lords can be thougher to kill then Khorne Lords.

a Tzeench Lord with the Talisman of Preservation and the enchanted shield is rocking a 2+/3++ and still has 1/2 his magic item allowance for some nasty magic weapon.



i know it's temptig to give your sorcerors MoT, but that limits your spell options. the basic lores of Shadow and Death are better then the Lore of Tzeench.

i run a Lvl4 with Shadow and a Lvl2 with Tzeench. it's a better balance and gives you some of that Tzeench benifits while giving the bulk of your magic the main lore advantages.

I dont know about that last post regarding death and shadow being better than Tzeentch magic...espically death. IMO pandemonium is one of the best spells in the game. The possibility of nukeing that death star in one shot (gate way). treason for those sword masters or balck guard.

A tzeentch caster with the third eye, i never leave home with him. Im taking anything away from Shadow, its awsome.

I always take a Tzeench caster, but he's my Lvl2.

my Lvl4 has the lore of Shadow(sometimes Death) for Miasma and Withering. Mindrazor is good against really tough enemies(or any Lore of Life, Flesh to Stone buffs)

Just FYI, watched a MoT Warshrine tank a troll star the other night and the dude told me it took down a Minotaur star as well. The thing is breaking hobbies.

The Warshrine is pretty killy.

Str5 and T6 with 4 wounds. MoT gives it a 3+ ward too.

Grey Templar wrote:The Warshrine is pretty tough.

Str4 and T6 with 4 wounds. MoT gives it a 3+ ward too.

Fixed that for ya. I personally still think the 'shrine as a unit is rather pathetic, but with the changes to CR in 8th I know it gets a little bit better against the things it was always good against - low CR units and/or units with particularly weak stats. I had never thought about it actually beating MI hordes before, but I guess it's a total possiblity: 18 trolls (6-wide) has only 2 static CR, so a charging warshrine is only 1 away from tying combat and 2 away from winning! Then it all comes down to the dice ...

- Salvage

That looks like a pretty competitive list, I agree about making the CW a little bigger though, I know they are tough but a couple of big shooty turns...
Also, I'm pretty sure Mages can;t take shields, even Chaos ones. I'm sure I read in a FAQ somewhere that 'Mages can never take Shields... No matter how much I want them to!' on the GW site...?
I'm running a level 2 mage on disc with MOT and third eye soon, Can't wait to see how it turns out...

Wizards often cannot take shields because they do not have access to mundane armor. Without access to mundane armor, no access to magical versions. Chaos Sorcerers are too paranoid to leave the house without their armor, though, so they can take shields all day long.

for the warriors ive found that 18 has been a solid block and eternal flame is nice (also for fluff 18 is a multiple of 9 for tzeentch along with the flaming attacks i.e. flamers of tzeentch)

as far as marks go its your choice of killy or protective for your lord

i prefer
lord mot runesword chaos stead shield talismon of protection ws 9 st 6 atk 6, 1+/ 3++ save for 349 points
almost just as killy minus attks from mount but higher st for taking out tougher targets

does mok lose frenzy if you are beaten in combat? unlikely to be beaten but sometimes its the way of the dice